mrephedrine69
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Thanks guys, you've all helped alot. Hope you all have a safe and happy weekend!
Seretoninless or just crap pills?
- Thread starter mrephedrine69
- Start date
I have my own personal opinions on what you have said and the reasons behind it.
But first a few points:
MDMA is NEVER produced from MDA.
Those recipes are describing ways in which to get REAGENTS from over the counter sources. Once someone finds the precursor, often without connections, obtaining common industrial chemicals without attention is very difficult. You still need that precursor. Anyone arriving at MDMA without it is using very sophisticated techniques and reagents.
Most pills seem to contain MDXX - meaning an MDMA like substance or perhaps a combination - e.g. MDMA and MDA.
The number of pills that are MDXX has certainly increased over the last 4 years and if you assume what happens in the UK and the NEtherlands is also true here, then dosage has gone up also.
There are a number of "chemical" influences on how a pill will be:
The identity of psychoactive chemicals contained in the pill.
The quantity or dose of those chemicals contained in the pill.
The types and levels of the various impurities left over from the reaction process used to manufacture those psychoactive chemicals.
It just so happens that the majority of pills that will test as MDXX to a tester are real MDMA and it is the only psychoactive chemical they contain. The dose can vary widely but it will generally be from 50-150mg.
The impurity content ALWAYS changes, as no two chemical reactions are ever the same. Impurities however may not cause any appreciable difference in the subjective effects. They could of course increase the pills damage to some of your internal organs such as your liver, but you are unlikely to detect anything like that. Of course on occasion there may be impurities that have marked effects on how the pills feels - we will never really know however.
Tolerance is a HUGE issue. It would not surprise me if the two pills you said had a good effect on you recently were actually MDA - this is NOT cross-tolerant with MDMA, so for people who have used MDMA for too long, a MDA pill once in a while can be a nice surprise.
HOWEVER in my opinion, bar the obvious issue of taking a break, there is one major factor that people have overlooked. For new users to MDMA the feeling is so unique and so special, that provided they are comfortable, they could do almost anything at all and have the most amazing time of their lives. For users who have used frequently and over a long time, that ability to just pop a pill and be in another world is lost. You notice how the physical effects are still very present, but the mental empathy and euphoria is gone. On occasion though, it seems to come back. WHY?
Yes you may have got a stronger pill on that occasion.
But it is far more likely that it was the set and setting you placed yourself in that transported an all too familiar experience into something that approached how you felt when you first began taking MDMA.
It is true for everyone. I am tolerant enough now to have a strong pill and completely switch its effects off. This is especially true as the effects wane slightly as because you know the drug so well, you know what is happening. It is hard to not just forget about it and coast back to baseline in the bliss that you should be.
However on other occasions I can have an ordinary MDMA pill and have the time of my life - why; simply because of the time and place I chose to take it, the company I chose to take it with, and my attitude and motivation at the time of taking it.
For first timers, "E" is easy - it will take you places you never dreamed of, without you even having to try.
For the pensioners out there on the scene "E" becomes very different - you control it, and only when you use it in the most positive of settings, with the most positive of reasons, and all the time intent on having a great time, with or without the drug, will that long lost euphoria return.
MDMA experiences have to grow with their user - it can always be special, it just wont be in the same way that it was when it took an innocent young man or woman into a place they had not been before.
But first a few points:
MDMA is NEVER produced from MDA.
Those recipes are describing ways in which to get REAGENTS from over the counter sources. Once someone finds the precursor, often without connections, obtaining common industrial chemicals without attention is very difficult. You still need that precursor. Anyone arriving at MDMA without it is using very sophisticated techniques and reagents.
Most pills seem to contain MDXX - meaning an MDMA like substance or perhaps a combination - e.g. MDMA and MDA.
The number of pills that are MDXX has certainly increased over the last 4 years and if you assume what happens in the UK and the NEtherlands is also true here, then dosage has gone up also.
There are a number of "chemical" influences on how a pill will be:
The identity of psychoactive chemicals contained in the pill.
The quantity or dose of those chemicals contained in the pill.
The types and levels of the various impurities left over from the reaction process used to manufacture those psychoactive chemicals.
It just so happens that the majority of pills that will test as MDXX to a tester are real MDMA and it is the only psychoactive chemical they contain. The dose can vary widely but it will generally be from 50-150mg.
The impurity content ALWAYS changes, as no two chemical reactions are ever the same. Impurities however may not cause any appreciable difference in the subjective effects. They could of course increase the pills damage to some of your internal organs such as your liver, but you are unlikely to detect anything like that. Of course on occasion there may be impurities that have marked effects on how the pills feels - we will never really know however.
Tolerance is a HUGE issue. It would not surprise me if the two pills you said had a good effect on you recently were actually MDA - this is NOT cross-tolerant with MDMA, so for people who have used MDMA for too long, a MDA pill once in a while can be a nice surprise.
HOWEVER in my opinion, bar the obvious issue of taking a break, there is one major factor that people have overlooked. For new users to MDMA the feeling is so unique and so special, that provided they are comfortable, they could do almost anything at all and have the most amazing time of their lives. For users who have used frequently and over a long time, that ability to just pop a pill and be in another world is lost. You notice how the physical effects are still very present, but the mental empathy and euphoria is gone. On occasion though, it seems to come back. WHY?
Yes you may have got a stronger pill on that occasion.
But it is far more likely that it was the set and setting you placed yourself in that transported an all too familiar experience into something that approached how you felt when you first began taking MDMA.
It is true for everyone. I am tolerant enough now to have a strong pill and completely switch its effects off. This is especially true as the effects wane slightly as because you know the drug so well, you know what is happening. It is hard to not just forget about it and coast back to baseline in the bliss that you should be.
However on other occasions I can have an ordinary MDMA pill and have the time of my life - why; simply because of the time and place I chose to take it, the company I chose to take it with, and my attitude and motivation at the time of taking it.
For first timers, "E" is easy - it will take you places you never dreamed of, without you even having to try.
For the pensioners out there on the scene "E" becomes very different - you control it, and only when you use it in the most positive of settings, with the most positive of reasons, and all the time intent on having a great time, with or without the drug, will that long lost euphoria return.
MDMA experiences have to grow with their user - it can always be special, it just wont be in the same way that it was when it took an innocent young man or woman into a place they had not been before.
Cowboy Mac
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^ top reply Biscuit!
mrephedrine69
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Awesome reply biscuit. Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response.
Something I think you will find fits very much in line with what you have discussed in the above which, I didn't include in my post regarding the 2 pills that actually gave me that feeling is the following:
On the night that I had the 1 pill a couple of weeks ago, I was only ever going to have one pill that night. I went out to the same venue I attend almost every week for the last 2 years, with my mind knowing that I was only going to have one pill and that was all. I do believe that they were strong pills, as all others agreed. But that in combination with the mindset more than likely produced the Euphoria. Generally, lately, I would not go out with less than 4 pills. I guess it was already set in my mind that if I didn't have that many pills, I wasn't going to have fun. That would possibly explain why when I had a large amount of the same pill on me, and I went out, having them did not produce the same effect.
All and all though, I went out with a big bang on Saturday night (x6) on a house boat off the Gold Coast, and I am determined to keep off the bikkies for at least 3 months. Time to become a little more responsible, and focus on the 'real' aspects of life, as the ecstasy world is by far not the real world.
Something I think you will find fits very much in line with what you have discussed in the above which, I didn't include in my post regarding the 2 pills that actually gave me that feeling is the following:
On the night that I had the 1 pill a couple of weeks ago, I was only ever going to have one pill that night. I went out to the same venue I attend almost every week for the last 2 years, with my mind knowing that I was only going to have one pill and that was all. I do believe that they were strong pills, as all others agreed. But that in combination with the mindset more than likely produced the Euphoria. Generally, lately, I would not go out with less than 4 pills. I guess it was already set in my mind that if I didn't have that many pills, I wasn't going to have fun. That would possibly explain why when I had a large amount of the same pill on me, and I went out, having them did not produce the same effect.
All and all though, I went out with a big bang on Saturday night (x6) on a house boat off the Gold Coast, and I am determined to keep off the bikkies for at least 3 months. Time to become a little more responsible, and focus on the 'real' aspects of life, as the ecstasy world is by far not the real world.
mrephedrine69
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goaaa said:
Hey Goaaa,
I think you are very close to being spot on. When I first moved up here in 2001 the pills were AWESOME. It was a great year, and I found that early 2002 (Summer) wasn't that bad either.
I am still inclined to think there have been alot of crap pills over the last couple of years. All these people raved about how good the A's were, etc, etc, but they were one of the dirtiest pills I have ever eaten in my life. The MDxx content compared to the other shit in it was disgraceful.
However, last weekend I had -1- blue sky (very unusual for me) and once again it felt like the old days, loved up, euphoric, empathetic, talkative..... it was AWESOME. This lasted for around -4 HOURS!-. Even having more the next night produced desired effects. Assuming I have run out of seretonin, this would not have happened. I have been told from a reliable source that these are imports from Mexico. So if it's true, this also gives credit to the fact that alot of pills in Brisbane are not the real deal and that we've been getting CRAP!
cuddlefish
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longer breaks, less pills
How I would give for a comparison of actually pill quality with the opinion of so many experienced users. I find it interesting how so many users think that pill quality/MDMA content is steadily decreasing over time without taking their own use and the nature of serotonin replenishment into consideration along with the fairly common practice of using methamphetamine (speed) during the night as well. This is very common from what I've observed and heard in the Brisbane rave scene.
Personally I like to keep a break of around six weeks in between pills, I have never had more than one and a half and during the year I like to take a break of three months or so. Not that I haven't broken that rule a couple of times. I know that sounds a little preachy however it's a personal choice that results in the novelty not really wearing off. I can recall every pill I've had and how the experience went with detail. Sometimes a little too much detail if you ask my friends. 8)
The pills I've eaten have almost always been heavily scrutinized with testers and user reports so I've managed to pick up the better pills that go around. In my experience I'm finding that in general, pill quality is actually going up. The trend is quite subtle but definitely there. I've only been disappointed with two pills but they were still quite good.
As a finally note I think that it's difficult to be objective based on experience with a drug as subtle and sensitive to circumstance as MDMA. When combined with overuse over a long period of time and a lack of precautions such as pre/post loading, and research into the mechanism of the drug it's easy to be lead astray by ones feelings on the subject.
I only hope you get back the magic and I think a good long break is a good idea. Try to go out without the pills here and there and I can say that you can do it, just go with the flow of everyone else. Perhaps a quiet word to the people hammering it a bit on the night might slow down a few others and you can help them to keep their magic a little longer.
I hope to see you out sometime.
PLUR,
cuddles
How I would give for a comparison of actually pill quality with the opinion of so many experienced users. I find it interesting how so many users think that pill quality/MDMA content is steadily decreasing over time without taking their own use and the nature of serotonin replenishment into consideration along with the fairly common practice of using methamphetamine (speed) during the night as well. This is very common from what I've observed and heard in the Brisbane rave scene.
Personally I like to keep a break of around six weeks in between pills, I have never had more than one and a half and during the year I like to take a break of three months or so. Not that I haven't broken that rule a couple of times. I know that sounds a little preachy however it's a personal choice that results in the novelty not really wearing off. I can recall every pill I've had and how the experience went with detail. Sometimes a little too much detail if you ask my friends. 8)
The pills I've eaten have almost always been heavily scrutinized with testers and user reports so I've managed to pick up the better pills that go around. In my experience I'm finding that in general, pill quality is actually going up. The trend is quite subtle but definitely there. I've only been disappointed with two pills but they were still quite good.
As a finally note I think that it's difficult to be objective based on experience with a drug as subtle and sensitive to circumstance as MDMA. When combined with overuse over a long period of time and a lack of precautions such as pre/post loading, and research into the mechanism of the drug it's easy to be lead astray by ones feelings on the subject.
I only hope you get back the magic and I think a good long break is a good idea. Try to go out without the pills here and there and I can say that you can do it, just go with the flow of everyone else. Perhaps a quiet word to the people hammering it a bit on the night might slow down a few others and you can help them to keep their magic a little longer.
I hope to see you out sometime.
PLUR,
cuddles
waspman⌐
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velocideX i agree about the As too
i dont know really how to explain but yeah, dirty is definatley the word id pick to describe em.
a very close friend of mine 'double dumped' two of those dirty brown A's a few months ago, the next morning he collapsed inside a hungry jacks and had a seizure. the doctors told him it was an MDMA induced seizure. what makes this worse for him, he has amnesia becuase of it, and cant remember much of the last 6 months before the fit. to make matters even worse, he had to resign from his new job because it required special on the job training he had just completed, and the employer (the nsw govt), wasnt prepared to pay him to learn all over again. how bad is that?
geez i cant believe i havent posted this before either *stoopid me*
i dont know really how to explain but yeah, dirty is definatley the word id pick to describe em.
a very close friend of mine 'double dumped' two of those dirty brown A's a few months ago, the next morning he collapsed inside a hungry jacks and had a seizure. the doctors told him it was an MDMA induced seizure. what makes this worse for him, he has amnesia becuase of it, and cant remember much of the last 6 months before the fit. to make matters even worse, he had to resign from his new job because it required special on the job training he had just completed, and the employer (the nsw govt), wasnt prepared to pay him to learn all over again. how bad is that?
geez i cant believe i havent posted this before either *stoopid me*
mrephedrine69
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Hey Cuddlefish,
There is definitely always going to be a large toleration to a drug that is used regularly, I am aware of that fully. And with the amount I have consumed over the last few years, as much as I don't want it to happen, it's inevitable that the feeling is not going to be the same as the first few times.
But as with my example of the A's, is it not too much to believe that maybe a large percentage of the pills that have come out are actually not the 80 - 120mg (or more) dose of MDMA without much impurity that we would expect to be ingesting, but are mainly impure pills with minimal MDMA content in them and more adulterants?
I feel that maybe it's possible that over the last couple of years, that that people have gotten used to eating dirty crap pills, and just because they have been fucked up, think that they have had a good pill. These people have potentially almost forgotten what strong MDMA pills feel like, or in newbies cases (like the example I provided earlier in the thread) have never actually had a real MDMA pill.
I just find it strange that every now and again I can eat a 'White Lips' or a 'Blue Sky' and be at that level that I haven't had for ages. (I have been reliably told that both of these pills are imports.) This occurs without having breaks, etc....
I don't know. Maybe I am just wanting this to be true so bad that it is???
There is definitely always going to be a large toleration to a drug that is used regularly, I am aware of that fully. And with the amount I have consumed over the last few years, as much as I don't want it to happen, it's inevitable that the feeling is not going to be the same as the first few times.
But as with my example of the A's, is it not too much to believe that maybe a large percentage of the pills that have come out are actually not the 80 - 120mg (or more) dose of MDMA without much impurity that we would expect to be ingesting, but are mainly impure pills with minimal MDMA content in them and more adulterants?
I feel that maybe it's possible that over the last couple of years, that that people have gotten used to eating dirty crap pills, and just because they have been fucked up, think that they have had a good pill. These people have potentially almost forgotten what strong MDMA pills feel like, or in newbies cases (like the example I provided earlier in the thread) have never actually had a real MDMA pill.
I just find it strange that every now and again I can eat a 'White Lips' or a 'Blue Sky' and be at that level that I haven't had for ages. (I have been reliably told that both of these pills are imports.) This occurs without having breaks, etc....
I don't know. Maybe I am just wanting this to be true so bad that it is???
mrephedrine69
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Oh yeah... Waspman..... I had 2 of those pills and pretty much don't remember any of the night. I do remember talking to walls, pictures on walls, and people that weren't even there. I thought my own house was someone elses, and that I was at a BBQ. I was calling out to people out the front door, and there was no-one there. A friend was snapping me out of the dayze every now and again, but I would just go back into it almost immediately. I remember in my mind swapping between the dayze and reality, but both were so real.... scary shit.
waspman⌐
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mr ephedrine i totally TOTALLY know what your talking about! i posted maybe on pillreports a similar experience, like, i went on a mission, to a large house nearby that is under construction, and i almost fell thru from the top storey to the bottom because i thought that the level underneath, where the big hole was, was a giant mirror, and i was about to step on it to see if it would break. luckily a straighter friend had the courtesy to scream what the fuck are you doing, and grab me before i took a nasty fall.....
strange pills.....
strange pills.....
mrephedrine69
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VelocideX said:
Definitely a good read! It goes to show that a lot of people have no idea what they are eating and really don't care! This is a shame as it will make hard for the qaulity MDMA pills to become a regular occurence. I found it interesting that one kid and his mates had been buying what they thought was 'ecstasy' for however long to realise now they had been eating speedbombs for quite some time!
I can truly say though that I have not had one single speed bomb since NY '03, which is quite some time. Mainly just dirty shitty head-fuck pills. No love, not wanting to talk to anyone, no buzz, no euphoria, and complete straightness after the dirty-ass come-on.
But there is always hope. Hopefully the quality of the blue skys is backed up with some more of the real deal!
backindauk
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"MDMA is NEVER produced from MDA."
Shulgin made MDMA from MDA
MDMA is derived from safrole/isosafrole, a chemical found in many cinnamonium ~ plants/trees.
making MDMA is not some nazi process like most amphetamine (meth, in this case) synths. You do NOT use bleach, brake fluid or any of that shit in there.
Go learn chemistry.
Shulgin made MDMA from MDA
MDMA is derived from safrole/isosafrole, a chemical found in many cinnamonium ~ plants/trees.
making MDMA is not some nazi process like most amphetamine (meth, in this case) synths. You do NOT use bleach, brake fluid or any of that shit in there.
Go learn chemistry.
Blue Sky's are very nice Also check out the Blue smiley's, they are the same pills just a different press.
Different people have different preferences when it comes to pills, some people like clean, loved up pills and some like dirty, messy pills. Often the people who like the messier pills will think a clean pill is shit because they don't feel fucked up enough off it. It is often the other way around from the clean pill preferring person, who dislikes the messy pill because it makes them feel fucked out Just got to chase down the right pill for your preferences then you're set.
Also check out the Blue smiley's, they are the same pills just a different press. Different people have different preferences when it comes to pills, some people like clean, loved up pills and some like dirty, messy pills. Often the people who like the messier pills will think a clean pill is shit because they don't feel fucked up enough off it. It is often the other way around from the clean pill preferring person, who dislikes the messy pill because it makes them feel fucked out
Just got to chase down the right pill for your preferences then you're set.
Urbanhog
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Re: longer breaks, less pills
Hehe yeah I can easily vouch for that, the way he gets excitied and over detailed with descriptions of effects and such.
Great Post mate
I argee with him.
Like when I took 3-4 months break I took some strong pills (beige a's) and I was floored and VERY hammered and scared me in some stages, so speaking what I learnt the hard way, after a long break (3-4 months break), if you stumbled into some "good pills", start off with half not two strong pills.......which is what I did......
Ahhh I learnt my lesson.![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
cuddlefish said:
Hehe yeah I can easily vouch for that, the way he gets excitied and over detailed with descriptions of effects and such.
Great Post mate
I argee with him.
Like when I took 3-4 months break I took some strong pills (beige a's) and I was floored and VERY hammered and scared me in some stages, so speaking what I learnt the hard way, after a long break (3-4 months break), if you stumbled into some "good pills", start off with half not two strong pills.......which is what I did......
Ahhh I learnt my lesson.
mrephedrine69
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I guess the term 'pill' is where the problem lies. I guess that term now really just means ' a nice little party supply to fuck me up.'
cuddlefish
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I also think that there has been a significant degree of variation of ingredients and quality of the A's. I've tested quite a few of the different batches and found that not only the reactions have looked quite different but also some appear to be MDA or even a combo of MDMA and MDA.* So feeling a little fucked up with more visuals than one would normally expect from a purely MDMA pill should be expected.
There's always going to be variation of batches with the same press, the later batch usually being of low quality and sometimes being bunk or dangerous (eg. the blue/grey versaces that appeared late last year). You mentioned the white tridents breifly as having little effect in an earlier post. I was lucky enough to sample a couple of these before anything was heard about them last year and I still have to say that it would have to be the cleanest, longest lasting experience I've had with the only exception being a low weight of MDMA crystaline powder.
Word of mouth is something which also should be taken into account even though it's not reliable. A simple 'they're good' doesn't give much information but if you hear details of almost falling through holes in the floor on a building site thinking it was a mirror on the floor, that's a pretty good indication that somthing funky is about.
In the time I've been testing I've tested somewhere around twenty five pills and only had three come up with a reaction that indicated amphetamines and only one of those was purely a speed bomb without any trace of an MDxx reaction. Maybe I'm blessed or perhaps pulling a tester out of your pocket at every opportune moment tends to keep the crap away.
Love your tester..... it's your friend,
cuddles
*tested using marquis, mandelin, and simons
There's always going to be variation of batches with the same press, the later batch usually being of low quality and sometimes being bunk or dangerous (eg. the blue/grey versaces that appeared late last year). You mentioned the white tridents breifly as having little effect in an earlier post. I was lucky enough to sample a couple of these before anything was heard about them last year and I still have to say that it would have to be the cleanest, longest lasting experience I've had with the only exception being a low weight of MDMA crystaline powder.
Word of mouth is something which also should be taken into account even though it's not reliable. A simple 'they're good' doesn't give much information but if you hear details of almost falling through holes in the floor on a building site thinking it was a mirror on the floor, that's a pretty good indication that somthing funky is about.
In the time I've been testing I've tested somewhere around twenty five pills and only had three come up with a reaction that indicated amphetamines and only one of those was purely a speed bomb without any trace of an MDxx reaction. Maybe I'm blessed or perhaps pulling a tester out of your pocket at every opportune moment tends to keep the crap away.
Love your tester..... it's your friend,
cuddles
*tested using marquis, mandelin, and simons