Mental Health Self medicator, dual diagnosis - not treatment resistant IMPOSSIBLE TO TREAT!...?

[Howl]

Self medicator, dual diagnosis - treatment resistant IMPOSSIBLE TO TREAT!...?

I guess what I'm doing is reaching out to others that are kinda like me. Dysthymia and anhedonia since pre-adulthood. Only worse after that. Undiagnosed ADHD/ADD but the before mentioned may cause it. ADD would be the correct diagnosis. I procrastinate always. Interest make me normal.
I'm cold, but not devoid of empathy. I'm full of remorse. I do weep at times, but i got cause. I don't cherish life, don't fear death nor wish to live without a medicinal solution (been there).
I've a short temper but I can control myself except when it's really bad/or I'm on a terrible binge (stopped that). I'm generally a good person and my intentions are good.

I match borderline disorder if not for the over reactions and moodswings among other things. Boredom and subpar stimulation - my nemesis and killers. Above average IQ but an under performer. I've tried most substances. And for some reason the drug (there's better and there's worse) that medicate me to something that wish to live and feel human has always been opioids. Morphine, heroine and oxy pref. Subutex and tramadol make me depressed among others long term,. And methylphenidate made me a madman plus depressed. Amphetamine calms a bit for a while. Benzo give me nothing except when coming down. I only drink when lack of better alternative. Ketamine = moodlift. Nitrous Oxide = Best antidepressant and moodlifter there is (in another way of that opioids gives, they allow me to enjoy interests). It can be noted that I get revved up by a good dose opi, much like some get from amp. Nodding is overshooting for me. Hallucinogenics and I am old lovers. Best times in my life I were on shrooms.

***UPDATE*** "*" = new addition.


*Often completely apathetic.

*I can get paradoxial reactions from drugs.

*I was drug/med free for a LONG time just to figure this mess out, but as usual it's as I feared. I feel next to none as baseline. It's been like this since before adulthood. Not during adolescence, not it the same degree.

*I try to exercise often, several days a week. If not only for the slight boost in mood it gives me the minutes after.

*I'm a semi vegan but eat supplements every day. Vitamines, minerals, omega-3 and whey-protein.

*I've been self-medicating in one form or another for over 7 years.

*Quit jobs when the depression is already there and the money is long not worth it. That's why we sell us right?

*Social activities... it's just not worth it without medication (opiods or amph+benzo). I have to act, wear a mask, paint a smile and lately do something useful, while ignoring the life around me, like trying some mind exercises.

*Love. Had that. It works. But it's not enough. I love on a basic level, and can really FALL in love, but a relationship becomes impossible after a while when the baseline smack your mind yet again. The mask crumbles. The angst turns to anger (I've never hit or threaten any woman) as usual. And while the love can still be there, strong, there's just nothing else... But falling in love? I take that over any drug. And medicated? Even abusing? I'm fucking awesome to that lady.

I've been on many meds. all stabilizers are bull except lyrica which can help a bit for a while. The rest I mostly end up feeling worse from. Antihistamines and neuroleptics were synthesized by the devil just after he invented the ECT. SSRIs not medicine per se, more like cash cows and they don't work.
I build tolerance like a motherfucker, regardless of substance. Some much worse than others.
On and off smoker.

*I've tried therapy. CBT, with compliance, help with building and maintaining the best kind of fundamentals. The mortar if you will. I'm on it currently and apply methods on my own when I'm able (medicated correctly).
And some therapy talk gave me insight into who I am as an individual and as a human, that helped.

*I'd say I'm depressed even when on drugs. It's only opioids that give me that lasting "feeling" of being there and enjoying things, otherwise I don't enjoy shit. I can do them but I don't enjoy them. There's nothing, not a thing, in the whole world that I actually want to do. When I get excited it's good sex or something sudden not planned, for example a head rush from a near accident or blood boiling when provoked. I guess ppl who are like me but more of morons seek out these few things and die or get locked up.

I can if I want.... truly.... and if there's a life to be lived, but life without medications is not life imo I'd much rather die. Anyone sees something of an resemblance?
In that case, tell me all you can come to. How you did it. WHAT WORKS!?

Someone got a regimen that works? Something obscure maybe? Hell I'd implant an electrode at this point, if it'd be worth it I mean. You see, I measure time - the future - in suffering....

*I know there's something... wrong with me. And I know it's not caused by nurture. This runs in the family. I'm not a psychopath (this I know) but I guess I would be classed as antisocial, although all those terms need to be revised. It's a mess as it is.

*I've committed suicide once, it was so easy I was surprised. Was sure I was gonna succeed. *Luck* intervened... I had planned at times before but got disturbed. Without drugs, now, If I went to prison or something - I would kill myself, even in the ugly ways.

*Had I lived in the states I'd be dead years ago due to your gun laws. Friends (druggies) have guns and I just can't understand why they haven't blown their brains out yet. I would've.

*I don't think in violent terms but when something sudden happens I can be dangerous, very dangerous.... I scare myself afterwards. (Worse when not medicated.) And I'm not talking about fight or flight responses we all have that raise the bar for what we can do. Chance, utter chance, had it I didn't go in for manslaughter (or worse) long ago. I'm gonna try an example, I can't for various reasons reveal too many details. Let's say I'm a young teenager and get into a fight. Those first seconds my whole brain is occupied with figuring out a way to kill (yes KILL) my adversary (could be a friend rest of the time). You'd be chocked too know what I've been SO CLOSE of doing, for... nothing. I realize this seconds later and the full scope of it during the days after. The implications of it didn't come to me 'til later though.
Now, as an adult, I have self control enough to never get THAT CLOSE. I just leave. Any other approach, if it's more than dogs barking, my mind races to assess the situation and how to kill him/them as fast as possible. I'm no superman, nor skilled fighter (if I learned that through experience I'd be dead or locked up as described), I know that. Yet I feel little, if any, fear. Mostly just.... *exhilaration*. I've done things that could have left me maimed for life, had something not intervened, because at points like that during the wrong circumstances I don't care about anything. The consequence of numbers barely, if at all, enters my mind.
This might come of as a brag or something. But I HATE this CURSE with the utmost intensity. It's caused me and people I love (and others) so much suffering I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. And VERY few people understands... I've been so cursed with my DNA yet so blessed when it comes to consequences.

*I'm a pacifist.

*Cannabis don't work well for me (too bad), too much anxiety, uncomfortable feelings, etc. It's possible to use as an temporary antidepressant fix but to function on it? No way... I found taking very little (oral preparation) has some potential but the line between "just right" and "zombiefied" is so narrow for me. Combined with low dosages of opioids though? Woah...
I do not enjoy the hit from smoking it.

*I haven't tried GHB/GBL

 

[orgone]

I'm DD as well. There is hope... you have to keep trying medications. There are so many possible combinations out there. Have you tried therapy? The only thing that works for me is therapy and medication and abstaining from opiates/benzos.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Psychedelic Drugs -> Mental Health

Although this is somewhat more of a self-medication with illegal drugs question, I feel at the heart of this, you're looking for treatment in any form, and I'm sure the guys here in MH can help you and give you some advice.

I sort of was unsure whether to move this over to here or Other Drugs at first but I feel like in Other Drugs it'll just end up as a bunch of suggestions over which drug you should take, based on peoples own preferences, and never touch on the roots of the problems, and quickly get closed. I think here while you're not going to see people advising you to self-medicate, you'll get some feedback on how other people have coped.

I think a good question to start would be how much time have you spent talking to a therapist? You don't seem to mention it in your post, only that you've tried lots of different medications.

Mental Health mods feel free to do as you will or move again if you don't feel this quite fits here. I just thought this would be the best place.

 

[FnX]

How is your life like in other ways? What do you do with your free time, do you engage in social activities or physical exercise? How is your diet and how long have you been using drugs/self-medicating?

 

[Howl]

I'm DD as well. There is hope... you have to keep trying medications. There are so many possible combinations out there. Have you tried therapy? The only thing that works for me is therapy and medication and abstaining from opiates/benzos.

Yes I have been and currently take therapy, CBT, that helps build and maintain a functional lifestyle.

Which meds are you on? Which worked, which didn't?

 

[Howl]

Psychedelic Drugs -> Mental Health

Although this is somewhat more of a self-medication with illegal drugs question, I feel at the heart of this, you're looking for treatment in any form, and I'm sure the guys here in MH can help you and give you some advice.

I sort of was unsure whether to move this over to here or Other Drugs at first but I feel like in Other Drugs it'll just end up as a bunch of suggestions over which drug you should take, based on peoples own preferences, and never touch on the roots of the problems, and quickly get closed. I think here while you're not going to see people advising you to self-medicate, you'll get some feedback on how other people have coped.

I think a good question to start would be how much time have you spent talking to a therapist? You don't seem to mention it in your post, only that you've tried lots of different medications.

Mental Health mods feel free to do as you will or move again if you don't feel this quite fits here. I just thought this would be the best place.

Thank you very much. I just couldn't find the correct place for the thread. I updated with info on psychotherapy.

 

[Howl]

How is your life like in other ways? What do you do with your free time, do you engage in social activities or physical exercise? How is your diet and how long have you been using drugs/self-medicating?

I try to exercise often, several days a week. If not only for the slight boost in mood it gives me the minutes after.

I'm a semi vegan but eat supplements every day. Vitamines, minerals, omega-3 and whey-protein.
I've been self-medicating in one form or another for over 7 years.

Social activities... it's just not worth it without medication (opiods or amph+benzo). I have to act, wear a mask, paint a smile and lately do something useful, while ignoring the life around me, like trying some mind exercises.

Love. Had that. It works. But it's not enough. I love on a basic level, and can really FALL in love, but a relationship becomes impossible after a while when the baseline smack your mind yet again. The mask crumbles. The angst turns to anger (I've never hit or threaten any woman) as usual. And while the love can still be there, strong, there's just nothing else... But falling in love? I take that over any drug.

Apart from this... I just try to distract myself from the passing of time so it eventually will become nighttime and I can sleep... oh, blissful sleeep... a little slice of death every night.

 

[Howl]

I'm DD as well. There is hope... you have to keep trying medications. There are so many possible combinations out there. Have you tried therapy? The only thing that works for me is therapy and medication and abstaining from opiates/benzos.

Yes I have. See updates.

Which drugs works for you, how do you take them, etc? And almost as important, which don't work and what do they do to you?

 

[FnX]

Apart from this... I just try to distract myself from the passing of time so it eventually will become nighttime and I can sleep... oh, blissful sleeep... a little slice of death every night.

I have felt exactly the same for a long part of my life and to be honest, it's a really dark place to be. What I think would really help you is if you found something to live for, something that motivates and drives you forward. It can be really, really hard to find such a thing I know, but I 100% believe you can find something to live for and once you do, I think you will find life a lot more enjoyable. I can give you a hint where to start looking actually, it lies in the quote above, the distractions to be precise. Think about how you distract yourself and why have you chosen that particular activity for killing time, you might find something that inspires passion there. If you found something creative to express yourself with, it could really help turn things for the better. In my opinion, drugs or medication alone won't solve your problems and make you a genuinely happy person.

If for example you like to play computer games to distract yourself, maybe creating some gaming related content of your own could be your spark? You seem really interested about drugs in general, perhaps studying pharmacology and biology in general might lead you to a path to more enjoyable life? I honestly can't give you an answer because you will have to ask these questions yourself and answer them. The search might be long and some people get bored really quick and start chasing all sorts of different things to make their life enjoyable (a lot of ADD/ADHD people seem to lose interest in things pretty quick for example, there's always something else though) but don't let that discourage you.

When one has used drugs for long, it can be really hard to find genuine interest in pretty much anything without them, but if you find that 'your thing', it should fill this hole in your life much better than drugs do. Drugs shouldn't be used to make life worth living in my opinion, they should be figuratively reserved as sort of topping on the cake (life).

 

[spork]

Have you tried mindfulness at all? It's about being in the present moment and not judging yourself for the thoughts you have all (they're just thoughts after all). It's more of a lifestyle than a meditation, but I have a lot of the same issues as you've had and found that it helps me a lot. We have a thread with more information about it right here. It's simple, but not easy and takes a lot of practice. I still find myself amazed at how much it has helped me.

Another thing you might try is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. It's a kind of CBT, but it's more set up for people with BPD and those that have symptoms of it. A lot of the basis for it is mindfulness. It changed my life in an amazingly positive way and I think it could help you as well.

I'm glad you're exercising and eating well still, that's something that I often have a lot of difficult getting motivated to do. Keep at that please. I'm also glad you made this thread, I know how hard it can be to ask for help but doing so shows that you really want the treatment that you need.

Take care of yourself, and please PM me if you have any questions.

 

[Howl]

I have felt exactly the same for a long part of my life and to be honest, it's a really dark place to be. What I think would really help you is if you found something to live for, something that motivates and drives you forward. It can be really, really hard to find such a thing I know, but I 100% believe you can find something to live for and once you do, I think you will find life a lot more enjoyable. I can give you a hint where to start looking actually, it lies in the quote above, the distractions to be precise. Think about how you distract yourself and why have you chosen that particular activity for killing time, you might find something that inspires passion there. If you found something creative to express yourself with, it could really help turn things for the better. In my opinion, drugs or medication alone won't solve your problems and make you a genuinely happy person.

If for example you like to play computer games to distract yourself, maybe creating some gaming related content of your own could be your spark? You seem really interested about drugs in general, perhaps studying pharmacology and biology in general might lead you to a path to more enjoyable life? I honestly can't give you an answer because you will have to ask these questions yourself and answer them. The search might be long and some people get bored really quick and start chasing all sorts of different things to make their life enjoyable (a lot of ADD/ADHD people seem to lose interest in things pretty quick for example, there's always something else though) but don't let that discourage you.

When one has used drugs for long, it can be really hard to find genuine interest in pretty much anything without them, but if you find that 'your thing', it should fill this hole in your life much better than drugs do. Drugs shouldn't be used to make life worth living in my opinion, they should be figuratively reserved as sort of topping on the cake (life).

Yes, well, when I at those rare occasions find something that spark my interest I tend to obsess. Think M.D House, or someone like that for a comparison, when he suddenly start to cook and that's all he ever does - for a while. Even when supported with tons of things, friends, drugs, medicine.... love.... he still manage to ram a car through the house of his one and only true love. I'm... a lot like that... But a car through a wall would be almost sublime when stacked against what *really* happened in my story... But no, I'm over that - so no analyzing that part thank you
At least it taught me the value of love and social life. You're correct when stating there is no *ONE* pill or solution (I spent too much time chasing that naive dream), it's a whole god damn philosophy honestly....

Over the past, say 5-7 years(?), it's been getting worse. I can very rarely play games or read and enjoy myself anymore. For a long time it was just a way to pass the time (if possible at all), ignore the pain of existence and lately something forced due to CBT. I actually managed to fall into a fantasy series, which I failed to do 5 years ago (but loved 10 years ago), but I suspect it's much more a kind of stress response - a retreat - more than simple actual enjoyment or genuine interest. I mean, it's more a reduction of unpleasant neuronal activity (or masking) than true, actual response to an activity on a emotional level.

I'm actually trying what you propose very hard. I've found it unsustainable without ADHD medication (that would be amphetamines. Methylphenidate = useless, as are most re-uptake inhibitors) or opioids. I tried for a long time without (6 months +) but I find the results being an imitation of life more than actual life in the end... And I started to adopt shallow traits, like the way I am with the ladies, which I never had before. I've even tried going creative. But the feelings are not there without medications... And the difference is so great I get applauded for my behavior, and my creations, while ignoring the shame of being under the influence of a medication. Little does the surroundings truly know...

It's been... pointed out to me I... "feel"... *less*.... than most people. The same goes for some of my relatives. Alcoholism runs deep and far...
The true trick is to adapt this faulty error of being into a rich, full life of the modern world - and all that which it means. This sounds sooo easy... but it's terribly hard. I think of death and suicide almost on a daily basis now... That, when compared, is so easy it's silly...
If I don't find a cocktail of medications that work long term and if I don't manage to kill those deepest pits of depression - I'll be dead this year... again. But this time I got syringes, bags full of pills, etc and privacy so it wont fail. I've been dead before, loved it...

When I found drugs/medicine/philosophy/psychology/hallucinogens/etc it was like I found my true self. That interest in the meaning and the inner workings of it all is something that died during my abusive years but it is something I, lately, regained. I again can find myself scouring the net for new intel on the latest subatomic particles and any related philosophy, like I used to. And when sufficiently stimulated by both chemicals and information I even submerge into the discussion at forums or blabber on with the unsuspecting random person about quantum physics and the weirdness of superposition.
I thought I had lost that forever.

I've tried picking up my studies (again) but it's just not viable without a working, long term medicinal regimen. Without it everything works fine, for a while, then out of the blue one day I ponder the idea of smacking the concrete, head first, in a rapid, orderly fashion. And by then it's waaaay too late to reconfigure my life. I'd rather just kill myself without the ordeal of digging the grave as well...
*BUT* the...plan, or whatever you'd call it, is for me to go back to the university and study something that interest me at the core. There is several subjects which truly touch me, pharms and biology being two (as you mentioned), astro physics and psychology being two other. After numerous discussions with doctors (and more than a few lectures on my part) I know that profession ain't for me. I'd rather just wikipedia all day (which they do anyway when confronted with something not in '76 study books) than follow some blue print of guidelines a trained monkey with a degree can do...

Have you tried mindfulness at all? It's about being in the present moment and not judging yourself for the thoughts you have all (they're just thoughts after all). It's more of a lifestyle than a meditation, but I have a lot of the same issues as you've had and found that it helps me a lot. We have a thread with more information about it right here. It's simple, but not easy and takes a lot of practice. I still find myself amazed at how much it has helped me.

Another thing you might try is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. It's a kind of CBT, but it's more set up for people with BPD and those that have symptoms of it. A lot of the basis for it is mindfulness. It changed my life in an amazingly positive way and I think it could help you as well.

I'm glad you're exercising and eating well still, that's something that I often have a lot of difficult getting motivated to do. Keep at that please. I'm also glad you made this thread, I know how hard it can be to ask for help but doing so shows that you really want the treatment that you need.

Take care of yourself, and please PM me if you have any questions.

Yep, tried it. Both long ago and more recently. There's wisdom and help to be found with such ancient methods, true. But after just burying myself in it I found that it's not the one, true answer either... But combined... yep, then I find potential I'm no novice to this.

DBT sounds vaguely familiar. I've probably read through the wiki-description more than once in a drug haze. I'll make sure to read through it.


But still... how do you do it? I mean to manage a lifestyle that gives enough for it to be "worth it"?

 

[Vaya]

Wow...

...this was like reading a post out of my own persona journal - if I'd had the diligence to actually keep one when I was in such a state. Very intersting, Howl - very interesting, indeed.

I, too, am Dual-Diagnosis. I would not focus on your similarities with BPD as much as you seem to be, however, as many of those symptoms cross-exist with other diagnoses and if you are lacking the extreme overreaction, night-and-day mood swings and emotional lability that make BPD so dangerous to live with (and sometimes around), I would say that it is a safe bet that you do not suffer from it. I have worked in an acute psychiatric hospital for periods in the past and have met and helped many BPD's; while this is not to say what you're suffering from isn't significant, I do not get the impression that you have Borderline Personality Disorder. So, from that notion, try and free yourself...

You appear to be doing a number of things quite well, and it was refreshing to read about them. Most especially, your sound diet and exercise regimen prove that you have the mental vigilance to apply yourself to a positive routine and stick with it, despite the possible absence of immediate benefit. You are capable, and can clearly understand the value of long-term reward versus focusing only on short-term rewards. I think that this characteristic of yours alone points to the very real possibility of your being "treatable."

Your post speaks only briefly towards the impact of social interaction in your life. Can you expand on that? The reason I ask is that positive social interaction is one of the keystones to a healthy - and, especially, a HAPPY - life experience. With dysthymia and anhedonia coming and going in and out of my life for years and years, I understand all too well the frustration that wearing the painted veil of positivity brings to even the notion of interacting socially, let alone the process itself. But have you given up on trying entirely, or are there things that you enjoy doing alone that may somehow be generalizable to doing with others - even one other person?

The last comment I have for the moment is regarding prescriptions. Prescriptions. I hate the word. My parents are both clinical psychologists and I have been on medications since I was in 3rd grade, and am now almost 27 years old. In a lot of ways, I relate to feeling as though I can not live life without some form of medication. Maybe in more ways than I can even admit to myself. But the one thing that stuck out at me was your explicit mention of Lyrica; I used to call this drug a miracle, but I now believe this to be so because it has such an intoxicating effect that taking it used to mimic, in certain ways, both MDMA and opiates. So why wouldn't I love it? After building up such a massive and shameful tolerance to it over the course of 2 1/2 years, I decided that it was time to step away from it. However, AED (anti-epileptic drug) mood stabilizers have been one of the only class of medications that I have ever taken that has yielded any palpable (as well as positive) effect on my life! To qualify that statement, I have been on just about everything from most psychiatric drug classes, including "mood stabilizers" (Lithium/Thorazine), atypical antipsychotics, classical antipsychotics, SNRI's, SSRI's, tricyclic antidepressants, MAOIs, benzodiazepines, and barbiturates. It has, to say the least, been a wild ride - and never that enjoyable.

Lyrica is a member of the AED class of drugs - drugs meant for the prevention of seizures and neuropathic pain, but that happen to have a remarkable success rate at treating treatment-resistant mental health issues like anxiety, depression and social fatigue. I also had a lot of success with Lamictal, but about 1% of the population develops a skin rash in reaction to it that can have a good chance of developing into Steven-Johnson Syndrome (google it if you want to be sickened...) and, lucky me, I developed the rash and had to immediately stop taking it DESPITE the positive psychological aspects I found as a result of using it. I mean, my life was more important than to die from such a horrible Syndrome as SJS.

Neurontin (gabapentin) is a very close cousin of Lyrica (pregabalin), as you may well know. This is the medication I am on now - 300mg TID (3x/day). It is less intoxicating than Lyrica, lacks the dulling of emotions/sluggish cognitive tempo/apathy/"addictiveness" of Lyrica, yet provides many similar benefits. Have you looked into this medication? It is also, unlike Lyrica, available in generic form which is a godsend for someone like me without health insurance at the moment.

It was good to read your post; I hope that you continue to find help here at Bluelight. Welcome to the forums!!!

Take care,
~ Vaya