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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Self-medication vs real medication

K

kaleigh_k

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2001
Messages
243
Location
montreal
Hey guys!

If you prefer to skip the long version, I posted my question at the bottom.

I'm a 42 year old single mother with 2 teen kids. I have a happy, manageable life.
Although I have not had any alcohol in 10 years, I am an active daily drug user and I have been all of my adult life, which is about 25 years now.
For the most part, I'm good with that. Drugs are so much better than alcohol! Drugs are a fundamental human right we are being denied! But that's not what I'm here for lol

No seriously, I'm not perfect and I still like to party, and my kids aren't stupid but that's a bit of the "thing we don't talk about". I can proudly say that there is no chaos, there has been no madness, since I gave up drinking in 2002. Alcohol is evil but I don't want to digress. The crazy days are behind me now. What it comes down to, I smoke weed, about a gram a day.

About 2 years ago, I started taking some speed to add some productive hours to my day during the christmas season, and over time, the routine has become about 1/2 speed 4 times/week. For the first year I had trouble sleeping and eating until I realized that it isn't so much insomnia and lack of appetite but more of a problem about remembering to stop and get some sleep and eat. So now that's not an issue.

although I am not diagnosed, it became apparent when my son was diagnosed that I am adult ADHD. I read up a lot on the topic when we found out, and come to think of it, it's that research that made me try the speed in the first place LOL I forgot about that. I always used speed from time to time, I like to go out raving, I had just never made the connection before.
So I tried it for productivity and it worked like a charm.

But I realized recently that I am 42 and my grandmother had about 7 heart attacks. Nobody but my dealer really knows about my usage and that started bothering me. So I finally got up the nerve to tell my doctor and he was totally cool about the whole thing. It was a little surreal, actually, he has been my doctor for 20 years and I've been "not telling him" about a whole lot of things for a long time now but he was all good and I'm am so grateful for that! The only problem was that he really didn't know the ins and out with these meds...You should have seen the look he gave me when I said I wanted the ADHD med that wasn't going to affect my MDMA trip. He told me to come back with all the information and then he would help me.

There's a little background about me and the situation.

QUESTION:
Which medication for adult ADHD, that does not conflict with MDMA, should I request a prescription for. I need something to replace the speed I currently use to improve my focus and productivity, as needed, about 4x/wk. I live in Montreal, Qc, Canada.

Any advice is appreciated. I'm not afraid to read up on things, but that info is so dry and meaningless to me and I know, for sure, someone here just knows the answer to this question!

Thanks so much!

(And I'm curious, are there any other mothers like me, out there, reading this?)

k.
 
Last edited:
There really isn't much counter indication between amphetamines and MDMA, aside from in extremely high doses and with regards to hydration. It will not counter the effects of MDMA like SSRI and antipsychotic drugs will as there mechanisms of action are quite different. Most ADD drugs work by increasing synaptic levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, with little increase in serotonin levels compared to the methamphetamine we get in pressed pills in Montreal. MDMA works primarily as a serotonin releasing agent, and the strength with which the ADD medications (eg. methylphenidate, d/l-amphetamine sulphate salts, d-amphetamine salts) interact with the serotonin system is not relevant in this situation.

There's a dad reading this right here =D
 
^ There might not be a contra-indication, but I've always found that mixing stimulants is a lousy combination, tarnishing each others effects. Some people don't mind it, but for the most part, especially around here, people tend to agree that they don't suit each other.

I think the best option would be for you not to take your ADHD medication on the days that you're rolling. They're both amphetamines anyways, so what you don't get from your medication will probably be compensated by the MDMA.

As Venrak mentioned also, the pressed 'speed' pills (eg "ice") that you get in montreal aren't methamphetamine (if that's what you think that you're getting). Most of the 'speed' pills floating around are adulterated, and you'll be MUCH happier with your ADHD medication than being on the street 'speed'.

If you had to mix the two together, go with dextroamphetamine (dexedrine) as opposed to adderall as it's much cleaner of a stimulant, and is probably less likely to alter the MDMA effect.
 
Hi! Thanks for the info, friends.

Thanks Chromophobia, as I need to go back to the doctor with a medication name and Venrak's answer is great, but that's the info I gave my doctor to begin with (printed pages from Bluelight, no less!! lol) when he told me to go do my own research.

My concern about contraindication with the MDMA has to do with the anti-depressant meds, the Prozac and Celexa, which, from what I've seen with friends first hand, totally wipes out the euphoric effect of MDMA and it can take months before you can roll properly again... and I can't have that!! lol I was also under the impression that there was some legislation about XR (which is slow-release, I think?) in Qc, too and I wanted to be sure to just get the right meds out of the gate. Is there a reason, besides dependance, that ADHD adults are prescribed anti-depressant meds?

So if I am to understand correctly, based on this list, I need to stick to the NDRAs and avoid the SSRIs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rine-dopamine_reuptake_inhibitors_.28NDRIs.29


Also, coz we are on the topic anyways ;) I figure the ice was only amphetamine, since it's been around, unchanged, so for long and meth still isn't very popular in MTL. From what I understand, there are 4 elements to amphetamines and the recipe alters the targeted effect. That said, from experience, I find some street speed helps me focus, while another batch may make me spin more than be productive. I certainly hope getting real meds will improve my results! and lower my risk, if truth be told.

So, thanks again, any other feedback is still appreciated!

k
ps - I need to do speed with my MDMA to stay up past 3am! lol ;)
 
I think, but I'm not sure, that only XR formulations of amphetamines are available in quebec. Nonetheless, if you find instant release more suitable, there's an easy way to defeat the XR mechanism.

There is a huge contra-indication with MDMA and SSRI drugs. Serotonin syndrome is a big risk, a possible fatal condition caused by excess serotonergic activity. The other reason is, as you've already stated, SSRI drugs are known to blunt the effects of MDMA, and all amphetamines in general.

The other drugs you're looking at are bupropion, 3 different kind of structurally similar amphetamines, and methylphenidate. Usually, the consensus is that most reuptake inhibitors, should not be mixed with most releasing agents, except in specific circumstances, under a doctors supervision. As mentioned, MDMA is a releasing agent (as are all amphetamines), and SSRI's are reuptake inhibitors, hence the dampening of effects. Concomitant users of amphetamines (releasing agents) and SSRI drugs tend to also report diminished effects from their amphetamines.

Cocaine, methylphenidate, and bupropion, are all reuptake inhibitors of dopamine, as opposed to serotonin, with the first two reported to cause a substantial decrease in effects from amphetamines. Bupropion on the other hand, has mixed opinions. Some claim it dampens the effects of amphetamines, others claim it's a smooth combination, with the bupropion making the amphetamine effects less bumpy, so this maybe your only exception of a drug that can be taken with your ADHD medications and MDMA with decent results. I'd wait for someone with more experience with bupropion to chime in however.

There's also the issue of methylphenidate vs amphetamine for ADHD. I personally feel, especially that you benefit from speed, that methylphenidate will be a giant let down at treating your condition. It feels like cheap and dirty cocaine IME.

I'm still not sure what options you're attempting to find. Are you looking for a combination of an anti-depressant and amphetamine that can be taken with MDMA? I also didn't really understand your question about prescribing anti-depressants to those with ADHD due to dependance. Please clarify if you can.
 
Chromophobia said:
^ There might not be a contra-indication, but I've always found that mixing stimulants is a lousy combination, tarnishing each others effects. Some people don't mind it, but for the most part, especially around here, people tend to agree that they don't suit each other.

I think the best option would be for you not to take your ADHD medication on the days that you're rolling. They're both amphetamines anyways, so what you don't get from your medication will probably be compensated by the MDMA.

As Venrak mentioned also, the pressed 'speed' pills (eg "ice") that you get in montreal aren't methamphetamine (if that's what you think that you're getting). Most of the 'speed' pills floating around are adulterated, and you'll be MUCH happier with your ADHD medication than being on the street 'speed'.

If you had to mix the two together, go with dextroamphetamine (dexedrine) as opposed to adderall as it's much cleaner of a stimulant, and is probably less likely to alter the MDMA effect.
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I was going to say just in different words.

Don't take your ADHD meds on the days you plan to roll.

And I would also recommend asking for Dexedrine as it is a MUCH cleaner stim than adderall. Much more mental clarity and it just feels a lot cleaner than the mixture of both L and D amphetamine salts that adderall uses.
 
Fascinating! I'm really appreciating your responses! Thanks :))


So the bottom line is that I DO take MDMA from time to time and I want to START taking an ADHD medication that will not dull the effects of the MDMA. I have found the MTL ice works but I wanted to lower my risk and get a proper prescription.

next, although undiagnosed, I believe I am ADD. I've been having check-ups with my doctors and/or telling various therapists over the years about my problems with staying organized, being late and it's obvious have trouble sitting still. Why is it that I've been only ever offered anti-depressants? I've asked around and I don't know anyone (except kids!) who has been scripted Adderall and I can't find anyone using Dexedrine. Hence my question about dependance issues being a possible reason for the repeated suggestion by professionals of SSRIs and never a mention of anything else. At the time, I didn't know my options. Now that I do, I wonder why my case would be handled that way in the first place? More kickbacks from the Paxil people perhaps?


I don't tend to mix my stimulants, unless you want to count coffee lol. Is MDMA considered an amphetamine as well? ? I'll mix speed and MDMA but really only to keep me dancing.

This whole thing really started for me when I was researching about my own kid and it dawned on me that we are basically giving our kids speed to get them through the school day!

Anyways, I am looking very forward to checking out this "clean" quality, and hopefully manage my risk better. I heard Dexedrine is a little harder to give up after? Can anyone confirm?

So, once I get myself set up, am I going to loose my mind and refuse to go to rehab unless I get to keep my Adderall? ;)

It's beautiful here, I hope you are all enjoying your day!
 
MDMA is an amphetamine, but it has little effect on dopamine compared to its effect on serotonin. They are both stimulants, but many people (myself included) find it sedating.

If you mean those rectangular ICE pills we've got going around, I would say take half of that maximum at first. They're pretty strong meth pills.
 
I don't think those "ICE" pills are 100% percent methamphetamine. Several threads I've searched in and some pillreports seem to agree that these pills are highly adulterated, and contain a very small amount of methamphetamine. This happens to be the case from personal experience also. The hangover from these "ice" pills is very harsh and the effects are very "cracked out".

Stick to your ADHD medication if your looking for the cleanest possible amphetamine you can find. They're no more likely to cause addiction than the pills you get off the street. I'm 100% certain that you'll prefer prescribed amphetamine over street amphetamine, as I was once on that boat before. The difference is absolutely immense between those "ice" pills and pharmaceutical grade dextroamphetamine. Even in combination with your MDMA, you'll definitely enjoy dextroamphetamine more than "ice" because one is pure amphetamine and the other is adulterated.

The reason doctors prescribe SSRI drugs to those with a history of drug use or drug use with dependency/addiction is because they are non-addictive drugs. For an ADHD individual however, they would be absolutely useless.
 
Maybe they changed over the batches because I tested them with reagents when I had them and they came back with a strong amphetamine reaction, and extracted contents were at around 60-70mg.

By all means though, avoid them and get a Rx if you can.
 
Thank you again, I feel prepared for the appointment next week.
One day Venrak, you can explain to me the process of extracting and analyzing contents. I've wondered about dosage, say, how much amphetamine might be in a Concerta for my kid, vs. a block of ice...

But that's not why i'm here! This just found me, totally random this morning. What do you know about Modafil? I'll read up more about it myself, but until then, I'd be very curious to see what you have to say about this:

http://sebastianmarshall.com/my-experiences-with-modafinil

Another beautiful day here, hope everyone has a good one :)
 
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