^ that is not true...the army was utterly overwhlemed and defeated. most fled or assimilated back into the population to avoid being killed or captured but some banded together with terrorist groups and started using gorila tactics. the army is defeated. small groups of cowards blowing up inocent people because they are pissed that they got their asses kicked... an army does not make.
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self defense gun
- Thread starter fridgebuzz
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rangrz
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No, the Iraqi army did horribly both times. OP Desert Storm was an overwhelming NATO/Allied Victory, as was OP Iraqi Freedom. The insurgency is a different ball of wax. The insurgents are not the Iraqi Army. Many of the insurgents are not even Iraqi. (The current Iraqi Army is fighting AGAINST the insurgents)
Still, the Michigan Militia, for e.g. lacks the heavy armor, fast air and artillery that the Iraqi Army had. Ergo, I don't think the USAF and US Army would find it very difficult to exterminate them if they where so inclined. ('m betting a large municipal police department would be sufficient tbph)
Keep in mind the difference between conventional warfare and an occupation. In order to displace the regime/ruler of a place, one needs to engage in conventional warfare first, and the militia's in the US are not going to displace the US Armed Forces in a conventional combat scenario, hence they will never get a chance to drag them into an insurgency during the occupation phase.
34-dihydroxyphen
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Potential for home invasion seems like a horrible reason to buy a gun. I plan on buying myself a handgun pretty soon and taking some safety courses, but I am not under the delusion that my handgun will somehow defend me in the night. In fact, going out and buying a gun which you plan to grab should some serious night-bumping occur seems like it would make things more dangerous in almost all situations.
I understand the concept for the ex-military and other gun experienced types on here, but I know that most home invaders either make mistakes regarding whether or not the residents of the targeted household are home or believe they can move quietly enough to not wake the residents up down the hall or up the stairs. Most of them will run off once they hear you scurrying. Being terrified and tired and confused combined with inexperience due to the fact that you just bought your gun for home defense and you have far from mastered the thing can only make things worse, especially in terms of damage to yourself, the people you care for in your household (if both you and the intruder end up having weapons then there is a good chance somebody you love can catch a bullet meant for you or your target that passed through your walls like cheese, not to mention the hazards to yourself from a firefight), and who knows what else.
Yielding seems like the better alternative to me, and I have lived in both good and bad neighborhoods. I would rather take my chances and bet that the person breaking in is not a total psycho, and provided I cooperate would be in and out once enough valuables were procured. I'm probably more like to get shot if I go creeping through a hallway or down the stairs quietly with my weapon drawn, should the moonlight glimmer off of it and make some terrified motherfuckers aware that I have a gun. Even if I stalk successfully, what if I fire at the guy, hitting and killing, and it turns out that two more of his buddies are in the house? Now I shot their friend down and like I mentioned above, I'm in a firefight and bullets are traveling by myself and my loved ones.
Whenever playing out the home-invasion concept in my head, I always find that a handgun offers more danger to myself than lying on the ground with my hands on the head, pointing out something of value in order to get these people the fuck out of there, which is exactly where they probably want to be once they end up in a hostage situation. The more threatening I appear, the more nervous they are going to be with their trigger-fingers.
I can probably think of about a thousand potential home invasion defense scenarios going horribly wrong. I know that every once in a while a real psycho robs houses and yielding would be least effective, but I imagine the odds are in the favor of calmly yielding.
This isn't to say that I find guns useless for personal defense, but I feel they are counter-productive in home invasion scenarios. They serve a much more useful purpose if you are walking the dogs late at night and run across serious trouble or find yourself getting lost in a bad downtown back-alley outside a club district where people know to look for potentially tripping/rolling clubbers still flush with loot. Unfortunately hand gun laws make these situations more complicated from a legal standpoint, and I obviously can't bring my gun into the club, nor can I leave it by the door with the bouncers and expect to get it back.
I simply want to get into guns as a hobby, and spend some time blowing off steam at the shooting range. I also feel I should have learned the damn things already. Should I ever feel that I have mastered the weapon well enough that I could use it to defend my family in the dead of night against an unknown number of assailants breaking into my house, then fine, but it is not a perk I would expect. Those trained in military combat would be the only people on this forum who would even know which course of action to take depending on the circumstances of the robbery.
I understand the concept for the ex-military and other gun experienced types on here, but I know that most home invaders either make mistakes regarding whether or not the residents of the targeted household are home or believe they can move quietly enough to not wake the residents up down the hall or up the stairs. Most of them will run off once they hear you scurrying. Being terrified and tired and confused combined with inexperience due to the fact that you just bought your gun for home defense and you have far from mastered the thing can only make things worse, especially in terms of damage to yourself, the people you care for in your household (if both you and the intruder end up having weapons then there is a good chance somebody you love can catch a bullet meant for you or your target that passed through your walls like cheese, not to mention the hazards to yourself from a firefight), and who knows what else.
Yielding seems like the better alternative to me, and I have lived in both good and bad neighborhoods. I would rather take my chances and bet that the person breaking in is not a total psycho, and provided I cooperate would be in and out once enough valuables were procured. I'm probably more like to get shot if I go creeping through a hallway or down the stairs quietly with my weapon drawn, should the moonlight glimmer off of it and make some terrified motherfuckers aware that I have a gun. Even if I stalk successfully, what if I fire at the guy, hitting and killing, and it turns out that two more of his buddies are in the house? Now I shot their friend down and like I mentioned above, I'm in a firefight and bullets are traveling by myself and my loved ones.
Whenever playing out the home-invasion concept in my head, I always find that a handgun offers more danger to myself than lying on the ground with my hands on the head, pointing out something of value in order to get these people the fuck out of there, which is exactly where they probably want to be once they end up in a hostage situation. The more threatening I appear, the more nervous they are going to be with their trigger-fingers.
I can probably think of about a thousand potential home invasion defense scenarios going horribly wrong. I know that every once in a while a real psycho robs houses and yielding would be least effective, but I imagine the odds are in the favor of calmly yielding.
This isn't to say that I find guns useless for personal defense, but I feel they are counter-productive in home invasion scenarios. They serve a much more useful purpose if you are walking the dogs late at night and run across serious trouble or find yourself getting lost in a bad downtown back-alley outside a club district where people know to look for potentially tripping/rolling clubbers still flush with loot. Unfortunately hand gun laws make these situations more complicated from a legal standpoint, and I obviously can't bring my gun into the club, nor can I leave it by the door with the bouncers and expect to get it back.
I simply want to get into guns as a hobby, and spend some time blowing off steam at the shooting range. I also feel I should have learned the damn things already. Should I ever feel that I have mastered the weapon well enough that I could use it to defend my family in the dead of night against an unknown number of assailants breaking into my house, then fine, but it is not a perk I would expect. Those trained in military combat would be the only people on this forum who would even know which course of action to take depending on the circumstances of the robbery.
Aetherius Rimor
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2012
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Personally, I'm not afraid of someone trying to rob my house or me for that matter.
Burglary is not the threat you should be worried about to have a firearm.
The threat you should be worried about, and -requires- a firearm, is someone with the intent to -hurt you-, not rob you.
Luckily I'm a very respectful, tolerant and kind person. The only enemies I've ever made, are the people who manipulate/lie/cheat/steal and even then only when it was done to me. I generally try to avoid those types of people completely, not even putting myself in a position to be an acquaintance of theirs.
If you are unfortunate enough to piss someone off who has violent tendencies, or be in the wrong place at the wrong time with a serial killer/mass murderer... that's when owning a gun for self defense is really your only means of survival. Texas became a shall issue (for conceal carry) due to the Luby's Massacre, where a man killed 24 people and injured 20 with a gun (again, criminals/psychos will still be able to get a gun even if they're illegal), and one of the patron's owned a gun and was keeping it lawfully in their car... where it served no use and could have saved lives had they had it on them.
A gun requires far less skill to use effectively compared to martial arts or bladed weapon based self defense, and attempting to flee may fail miserably.
I read several cop blogs online where an LEO posts anonymously so he can give his real opinions and more detailed stories. Love seeing their spin on things, especially since it makes it easier to see them as humans rather than tyrants when you read about them specifically targeting some rich arrogant guy in a Benz repeatedly parking in handicap parking spots and giving him tickets on multiple different days after looking for him. Or when they talk about how stupid some (even drug) laws are or the blatant stupidity/disrespectful hatred of some of the people they deal with on a daily basis.
When it comes to gun laws, there are three things cops have said that always sticks in my mind:
1. In reference to Open Carry and Concealed Carry, I am a supporter of open carry being legal, and was living in a state that concealed was legal with a permit but open carry was not allowed in public. I was talking to a security guard and former cop, who's whole opinion was that open carry should be -mandatory- and concealed always illegal. He believed as a law enforcement officer entering into a potentially life threatening situation, he should be able to at a glance know who all is (potentially) legally carrying a firearm when he's assessing potential threats. That way, anyone concealing their weapon is breaking the law by that alone, and most likely intending to do something illegal with it. He had been trained to spot concealed weapons (the way you walk/shift your weight, and subtle clues like one hand staying by your firearm carrying side raising suspicion of it).
2. When it comes to self-defense against a violent/aggressive attacker where fleeing is not possible... average response time for assault in progress in the area the cop blogging about this was 5 minutes, 10 minutes if you were calling from a cell phone. In that time, if you can't defend yourself, the attacker can do enough damage to send you to the hospital or kill you and escape. This cop believed that protecting citizens is part of the job, he emphasized that they aren't everyone's personal body guard and someone will hurt you if they intend to and you have no means to defend yourself.
3. Same person as in 1 (security guard was my smoke buddy at the office heh), he also said he'd prefer to be shot rather than stabbed, having been through both...
Burglary is not the threat you should be worried about to have a firearm.
The threat you should be worried about, and -requires- a firearm, is someone with the intent to -hurt you-, not rob you.
Luckily I'm a very respectful, tolerant and kind person. The only enemies I've ever made, are the people who manipulate/lie/cheat/steal and even then only when it was done to me. I generally try to avoid those types of people completely, not even putting myself in a position to be an acquaintance of theirs.
If you are unfortunate enough to piss someone off who has violent tendencies, or be in the wrong place at the wrong time with a serial killer/mass murderer... that's when owning a gun for self defense is really your only means of survival. Texas became a shall issue (for conceal carry) due to the Luby's Massacre, where a man killed 24 people and injured 20 with a gun (again, criminals/psychos will still be able to get a gun even if they're illegal), and one of the patron's owned a gun and was keeping it lawfully in their car... where it served no use and could have saved lives had they had it on them.
A gun requires far less skill to use effectively compared to martial arts or bladed weapon based self defense, and attempting to flee may fail miserably.
I read several cop blogs online where an LEO posts anonymously so he can give his real opinions and more detailed stories. Love seeing their spin on things, especially since it makes it easier to see them as humans rather than tyrants when you read about them specifically targeting some rich arrogant guy in a Benz repeatedly parking in handicap parking spots and giving him tickets on multiple different days after looking for him. Or when they talk about how stupid some (even drug) laws are or the blatant stupidity/disrespectful hatred of some of the people they deal with on a daily basis.
When it comes to gun laws, there are three things cops have said that always sticks in my mind:
1. In reference to Open Carry and Concealed Carry, I am a supporter of open carry being legal, and was living in a state that concealed was legal with a permit but open carry was not allowed in public. I was talking to a security guard and former cop, who's whole opinion was that open carry should be -mandatory- and concealed always illegal. He believed as a law enforcement officer entering into a potentially life threatening situation, he should be able to at a glance know who all is (potentially) legally carrying a firearm when he's assessing potential threats. That way, anyone concealing their weapon is breaking the law by that alone, and most likely intending to do something illegal with it. He had been trained to spot concealed weapons (the way you walk/shift your weight, and subtle clues like one hand staying by your firearm carrying side raising suspicion of it).
2. When it comes to self-defense against a violent/aggressive attacker where fleeing is not possible... average response time for assault in progress in the area the cop blogging about this was 5 minutes, 10 minutes if you were calling from a cell phone. In that time, if you can't defend yourself, the attacker can do enough damage to send you to the hospital or kill you and escape. This cop believed that protecting citizens is part of the job, he emphasized that they aren't everyone's personal body guard and someone will hurt you if they intend to and you have no means to defend yourself.
3. Same person as in 1 (security guard was my smoke buddy at the office heh), he also said he'd prefer to be shot rather than stabbed, having been through both...
Last edited:
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- Apr 4, 2006
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- 14,369
It didn't fend off the predator but id bet your average person would go down pretty quick. Also useful in the event of a invasion by a small army Aetherius Rimor
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2012
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It didn't fend off the predator but id bet your average person would go down pretty quick. Also useful in the event of a invasion by a small army![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
They're also useful for expensively but quite enjoyably cutting down trees!
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- Apr 4, 2006
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Yeah but who wants to go through all that trouble of using a chain saw on every damn tree you wanna cut down
. I bet i would get enough wood for a wood stove for about 2 years in just half a minute with one of those babies.All jokes aside i still stand by a 12 gauge pump action shotgun for home protection. You can put rock salt in the shell that is chambered (if you've ever seen or known someone to get blasted with rock salt from a shotgun at close range you would know how much of a deterrent this would be) and buckshot for every other shot in case they don't go down after that. I mean it takes about what 2 fucking seconds to rack in a new shell which would be far less time then it would take the guy that busted down your door to get his act together enough to fire at you. Not to mention unless you have no clue as to how to fire a shotgun you aren't going to miss.
enjoyprogress
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2012
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Get a glock 21!
Droppersneck
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- 31,009
Took my concealed carry test yesterday. All I got was 6 hours of an instructor reiterating that you're not a cop and if someone breaks into your house ALWAYS shoot to kill. The shooting test was a joke imo. I actually practiced at the range before hand lol