Selegiline chronic microdosing interactions

[Vastness]

I self-medicate with 1.25mg Selegiline (L-deprenyl) daily for a condition I have.

I also like to use recreational drugs occasionally - I have researched this before actually using any other drugs on it, obviously, and it looked for the most part that such a low dose is unlikely to interact significantly with anything, and is at least definitely not going to put me in any immediate danger.

That said I won't pretend to fully understand the mechanism of action of L-deprenyl besides that it involves selective MAO inhibition of some sort which is significantly dosage dependant. If I understand things correctly, I think it also builds up in the body if you take it chronically as I have been doing for probably a month or 2, so I am wondering if even a microdose such as what I am taking may begin to cause interactions with other chemicals...

I have read also that Selegiline may modulate the effects of cocaine somewhat while even protecting the dopamine system to some extent, although I have not noticed any particular difference in my experience of this one drug.


Anyway, in summary, my question is... are there likely to be any significant interactions at all between any recreational drugs and daily microdosing of L-deprenyl?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ebola?]

This isn't exactly micro-dosing, and likely achieves significant, irreversible inhibition of maob. You should avoid all stimulants and phenethylamine-based compounds.

ebola

 

[tweex]

You should avoid all stimulants and phenethylamine-based compounds.

Probably a bit too conservative IMO. I'm currently on 4 times that dose, and have noticed it potentiates stims quite well. Follow the instructions on the wiki about starting with a very low dose and slowly increasing.

For me, 10mg of d-meth has around the same effect that 30 normally would after a couple weeks on selegiline.

MAO-A inhibitors are what you really have to watch for, mixing stims with those can result in a fatal case of "shake 'n bake".

Honestly selegiline is one hell of a drug. I feel like I'm on a very low dose of meth constantly, and everything in life just seems more effortless. Plus it supposedly extends lifespan 25% in mice...

 

[ebola?]

Probably a bit too conservative IMO. I'm currently on 4 times that dose, and have noticed it potentiates stims quite well. Follow the instructions on the wiki about starting with a very low dose and slowly increasing.

Yeah, but better safe than sorry; multiple knowledgeable bluelighters have suffered medical emergencies on such combinations. But if you are insistent on doing it, I wrote an FAQ on how to combine such drugs more safely:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/466886-Selegiline-Deprenyl-and-Stimulants-FAQ-from-ebola-and-nuke

ebola

 

[Vastness]

I have read that FAQ in fact but the reasons for avoiding stimulants as you say were not really elabourated on... The only stimulants I have used so far and ever really intend to, at the moment, are cocaine and MDMA (latter I know is a phenethylamine and have used on only 2 occasions), and honestly, subjectively, I have experienced almost zero negative or different effects.

The only possible effect that I sometimes, not always, experience is a little edginess which I'm not sure was present before in doing cocaine, which only emerges after doing a few lines. Again however I cannot be entirely sure this can be attributed to the combination as I know cocaine sometimes causes this anyway in some people.

I will most likely heed your advice to some extent nonetheless as I can see why this combination could be dangerous, selegiline also having a minor stimulant type effect. But do you have any more information on why this could be dangerous? Specifically the effects it could have on the brain and relevant neurotrasmitters as well as possible effects on the body and peripheral nervous system.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ebola?]

I thought that I explained it in the FAQ. Oh well. Selegiline inhibits MAOB, which is (primarily) responsible for catabolism of dopamine and many other phenethylamine-skeletal compounds. Thus, we should expect it to strongly potentiate drugs which increase intersynaptic dopamine and those catabolized primarily by MAOB. The particulars of this potentiation vary widely idiosyncratically, though, so just diving in without extreme care can prove (and has proven) disastrous. For some, the interaction is surprisingly limited. For others, potency and duration increase dramatically. For some, mental effects are potentiated moreso than somatic effects. For others, the inverse is the case. Members of this latter group face the brunt of such combinations' dangers.

ebola

 

[Vastness]

Is it possible then that I belong to the group for which interactions with other dopaminergic chemicals are surprisingly limited? My subjective experience would seem to indicate this is the case although I don't know how much of a reliable measure this is and whether there could be damage occuring still that I can't "feel", as such.

From my research beforehand I gathered that there was unlikely to be significant detrimental interaction. I do understand that perhaps I was a little reckless in just diving in but 1.25mg seemed to me quite a low dose and I do not plan to increase it.

 

[ebola?]

Is it possible then that I belong to the group for which interactions with other dopaminergic chemicals are surprisingly limited?

Yup, but you don't know until you try it out, and people have faced the consequences of being unlucky on multiple occasions.

My subjective experience would seem to indicate this is the case although I don't know how much of a reliable measure this is and whether there could be damage occuring still that I can't "feel", as such.

The dangers are cardiovascular (and maybe risk of psychosis with binging). Monitoring pulse and BP provides good indicators.

but 1.25mg seemed to me quite a low dose and I do not plan to increase it.

Selegiline is an irreversible inhibitor, causing enzymatic inhibition to accumulate over successive days (well, not completely straightforwardly, due to continuing endogenous synthesis of maob and possible adaptive upregulation thereof).

ebola

 

[Vastness]

Actually it has just occured to me that I may be experiencing a side effect after all.

For one, the edginess I feel after doing cocaine for a while is often related to the fact that my heartrate feels higher than usual, even when doing coke. Thinking about it now I'm not sure this is something that I used to experience it so I may need to put it down to the Selegiline.

Secondly, I have tried to have sex on a few occasions on both coke and, most recently, MDMA, but have been frustratingly unable to perform (this isn't something I've ever tried before very recently so I'm not sure if this is normal for me or not). I know this is a common problem for men, but a few of my friends do not seem to have the same problem, and as I am only 25 and generally in good health it seems that I shouldn't have this problem to such an extent. Is it possible that this is a secondary effect caused by abnormally increased heart rate and increased (or decreased? not sure which would be occuring) blood pressure?

At the dosage I am taking how long would be needed for the effects of the L-deprenyl to fade if I simply stopped taking it?

Will I have damaged my heart already? I have not experiened any lingering pains or anything that feels too serious so hopefully not...

It seems possible I will need to make a decision soon about what is more important to me, recreational use of stimulants or self-medicating my condition. I may stop taking Selegiline for a while to test the difference without it and then resume when I am not going to use any stimulants for a while.

 

[ebola?]

These symptoms suggest (not very reliably) increased cardiovascular strain due to potentiation and elongation of effects. Your enzymes will be back to normal within 2 weeks (rule of thumb). I seriously doubt you have done any damage yet.

 

[Vastness]

Meant to respond to this thread again a while back, thought I would now in any case for anyone who is just interested or just to contribute to the collective repository of information that is Bluelight.

After a little more (perhaps ill advised) self-experimentation I think I can conclude that I was essentially just wrong to claim that I experience zero side effects when doing stimulants in the midst of my selegiline regimen.

I abstained for two weeks as advised and then tried doing some cocaine (again essentially uncut), for one thing I was able to actually sustain an erection although the actual act of sex still felt like a fairly significant cardiovascular strain in itself, although I guess this is pretty normal.

Besides that I think I can conclude that selegiline has the following effects on my subjective experience of cocaine:

• Significantly muted euphoria, although a more subtle feeling of contentment persists
• Obviously artificially lengthened duration of effects (stimulation and general contentment minus euphoria, as above)
• Increased peripheral side effects (gurning, jaw tension mostly)
• Occasional (thankfully fleeting) feelings of unease, usually accompanied by increased awareness of increased heartrate or other peripheral effects
• Significantly reduced craving for more
• Significantly muted comedown, possibly due to the muted intensity of positive effects

Overall my feeling is that cocaine is generally wasted when taken with selegiline, and while it may have some protective effect on the dopamine system this is outweighed by the stress that the increased duration likely causes the body, which even at the time does not really feel worth it for the muted feeling of contentment. It generally still produces a feeling that "everything is pretty much OK", even pretty good, but this is about it. I am writing this having done my last line over an hour ago and my jaw is still all over the place whenever my attention wanders, I have a slight headache probably contributed to by drinking a little also. I feel alright, not amazing, fortunately the comedown seems to be muted slightly as well.

In any case, I do not think I am going to do this combination again.

I will mention also that I have not taken selegiline for just one week at the time of writing, so obviously that is not enough for the MAO-inhibition to subside. I did not think it would be, but temptation and curiousity got the better of me.

I do not take MDMA very much but I do plan to in the near future (while I am not taking selegiline) so will then comment on any suspected differences in effects. My thoughts at the moment though are that there are less subjective negatives from this combination than with selegiline+cocaine, but probably also increased duration of effects and increased undesirable peripheral side effects.

 

[poonja]

I have experimented with low dose selegiline and pea (guessing 25-50 mg but not sure) and I can tell you that it provides an extremely pleasant euphoric high for a relatively short time and residual stimulation for a few ours after. Bur if you take too much pea ir becomes quite unpleasant with weakness and nausea.