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Misc Seconals and other barbiturates.

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Dilosets

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
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89
Hi all.

Are Seconal, Amytal and the other barbiturates completely off the market now, or are they still being manufactured?
I haven't heard about them for years.

I know it's as good as impossible to get a doctor's prescription for Seconals now, but what would the doc say if you asked about them?

"No, I don't prescribe Seconals", or "Seconals? They've been off the market for many years now".

And how about the illegal market?
Could you find a dealer that said "Yes, I can get you Seconals. And Amytals too."

Whatever happened to the barbiturates?
And what about Doriden?

Keep in mind, I'm only ASKING! Not trying to obtain them!
I just came to think of this today, and thought this would be a place to ask, since some here probably can give me an answer.
 
It's highly unlikely that you get prescribed things like secobarbital... Here in Finland where I live, phenobarbital is the only barbiturate that can be prescribed without a special permission from surgeon general(if you don't count stuff like methohexital used in hospital for induction of anesthesia), and it's only used for epilepsy, not as a sedative/hypnotic. I think the policy in USA is the same.

Secobarbital is probably still manufactured, but it's prescribed in only very special occasions.
 
Both secobarbital and amobarbital are still manufactured for U.S. distribution, however, as far as I can tell, amobarbital is only available for injection. They're both U.S. Schedule II.

So yes, they're both around, but extremely rare. However, there are barbs hanging around the U.S. market that have illegally been taken across the U.S./Mexico border, as I think some of them are still OTC down there.

Butalbital combination products such as Fioricet and Fiorinal are C-III and are commonly prescribed for migraine headaches and other similar conditions. Phenobarbital is still used for epilepsy in the U.S., but I've never heard of it being on the black market.

So yes, they're still around but the benzos have (for the most part) replaced them outside of the hospital setting.
 
What?! Barbiturates are OTC in Mexico?? Seconals? You're kidding right...? (Or I misunderstood)
 
I don't think they're legally OTC in Mexico, but I've read stories about certain pharmacies that will give you anything they have for the right price. Bluelight can't tell you how to break the law so I can't really go into specifics (I also don't know the specifics haha)

What makes you so interested in the barbs? I've never seen them on the black market except for the butalbital combo preparations.
 
Secobarbital and amobarbital are still on the market, but I am not sure about the rest. I think pentobarbital (Nembutal) might be also, but getting any of those prescribed for any reason is almost impossible.

Phenobarbital and butalbital are the only ones commonly prescribed.

No short-intermediate acting barbiturates can be OTC anywhere because they are Schedule III substances under the Convention on Psychotropic Substances which is a United Nations treaty that 175 countries are party to.

Nimetazepam, temazepam, and flunitrazepam are also Schedule III under that UN treaty.
 
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The only place the barbiturates are really still used medicinally are in extreme cases of insomnia or similar, or for animal euthanasia. The latter is actually quite common; the shady veterinarian I bought ketamine from in high school always had some but I didn't have the knowledge to get the good stuff out of it without ingesting the other, less interesting drugs it contained.
 
^Good point.

Barbs are also used as part of lethal injection cocktails (or alone in some states/countries), but I wouldn't consider that to be a source...
 
I don't think they're legally OTC in Mexico, but I've read stories about certain pharmacies that will give you anything they have for the right price. Bluelight can't tell you how to break the law so I can't really go into specifics (I also don't know the specifics haha)

What makes you so interested in the barbs? I've never seen them on the black market except for the butalbital combo preparations.

LOL, Ok, I see what you mean. You mean like benzo is"OTC" in Eastern Europe ;) My mistake.
Why so interested you say? Because it seems like they're gone, and I just wondered what happened to them, and if they're still available.

Thank you everyone else for your responds.

Now, I'm sitting here laughing about the idea of asking a doc for script for Seconals! Wonder what his face would look like, and what he'd say!
(Maybe I'll do it some time, just for the fun of it!;))
Not to mention the expression on the pharmacists face when I handed him a script for Seconals! LOL! (That is, if I got the script from the Doc of course - not very likely, but a funny thought).
 
In the UK, the only 'commonly' used barbs in human medicine (other than for surgical anaesthesia induction) are phenobarb, and a prodrug form of phenobarbital, primidone. AFAIK they are NOT used for insomnia, save perhaps in VERY extreme cases, I.E the worst of the worst of the most intractable insomnia that your average, or even most un-average doctor will ever see in their career.

Not sure if any of the less long-acting barbs are used for insomnia or epilepsy here, but in the case of primidone and phenobarb their primary uses are for control of epilepsy of some kinds, and in hospital for treatment of drug, or poison-induced seizures that are refractory to benzos, and I THINK some of the medium-duration ones are used to bring a patient out of status epilepticus (continuous seizures, one after the other with no recovery between them, or one long, continuous drawn out seizure), but I am not 100% sure, they may just use pheno.

I have had veronal (5,5-diethylbarbiturate), a long acting barb, its very amnestic, although euphoric, and highly abusable, much more so than I have read of peoples opinions of phenobarb, which is often regarded as just a prolonged, sedated, stupidity-inducing brick to the head in chemical form, and altogether shitty, although I haven't tried it myself.

Withdrawal from it is utter hell, opiate withdrawal is absolutely nothing compared to withdrawal from serious veronal abuse, benzo withdrawal pales, and it even makes prolonged, high-dose serious fucking abuse of GBL feel like a mild common cold in comparison, I got nicked and remanded, for non-drug related charges whilst I was physically dependent on the veronal, and they attempted to detox me on a combination of chlordiazepoxide (a shitty, piss-weak benzo) and chlormethiazole, a non-benzo, non-barb sedative, that is often used for alcoholism treatment, which is barbiturate-like in action, strong stuff, and in fact, the most euphoric downer I have ever used, and I was nevertheless in full-blown delirium tremens for weeks, if not months, psychosis, hallucinations, tachycardia, and something that to call 'anxiety' or 'panic' would be similar to calling an oxyacetylene flame 'a bit warm'.

Sent me right off the deep end, to the extent while in hospital after I eventually ODed, I drank a can of some variety of pop, then suddenly ripped it in two and rushed the two pigs that were guarding me, after the paramedics that came in the ambulance to the OD scene grassed me up for possession, and tried to use the sharp edges to slash the throats of the filth. Tried again to jump the pig that opened the cage in the back of the meatwagon with a view to beating the shit out of him.

While locked up after I got remanded, tried repeatedly to kick down the bolted steel door of the cell, and any chance I got to be exposed to any the screws, resulted in my attempting to fuck them a new arsering in the back of the head.

In short, be fucking careful with any of the barbs, including the weakish butalbital, withdrawal is the worst withdrawal you could possibly fucking imagine, and I have been through it with GBL/GHB, benzos and opiates, and another risk is that whilst tolerance rises, the lethal dosage does not.

It will take more and more to get high, but the dose it would take to kill you stays exactly the same as it was the time you take your very first dose, unlike the benzos, due to their different mode of gating the GABAa chloride channel, a benzo OD has to be bloody huge to kill you, or do much worse than KO you for an extended period of time, unless combined with alcohol or other downers/opiates, but a barb OD, a different kettle of fish entirely, and a relatively smaller OD than it takes to put you in a coma, will kill you. Taking any barb with alcohol, opiates or other downers, dose regardless is very likely to kill you outright anyway.

As for getting a script for veronal, it will not happen, period, its actually the first of the barbs to be discovered and the first to be put into medical use, but it hasn't actually been used in clinical practise for decades, and is quite simply, not available to be prescribed. I got mine as research lab grade powder, as it is used as a PH buffer for some purposes.

One other thing about barbiturates in general, is that the free barbituric acids are very poorly soluable in water, so if used for injection must be used as salts, usually the sodium salt, I couldn't get my veronal to dissolve much, if any, in water (it was the free acid, not a salt), and the salts are highly alkaline. If you miss a shot and inject it into a muscle, or under the skin, it will cause severe burns and open sores (although I never did inject the stuff)

Of course, injecting barbs....get an OD and it could drop you dead with the needle still in your arm.
 
LOL, Ok, I see what you mean. You mean like benzo is"OTC" in Eastern Europe ;) My mistake.
Why so interested you say? Because it seems like they're gone, and I just wondered what happened to them, and if they're still available.

Thank you everyone else for your responds.

Now, I'm sitting here laughing about the idea of asking a doc for script for Seconals! Wonder what his face would look like, and what he'd say!
(Maybe I'll do it some time, just for the fun of it!;))
Not to mention the expression on the pharmacists face when I handed him a script for Seconals! LOL! (That is, if I got the script from the Doc of course - not very likely, but a funny thought).

That would be a crackup! They'd likely look you up & down before disappearing for a moment to murmur among other flabbergasted & ignorant colleagues before coming back to tell you, rather matter of factly, noo i'm afraid we don't stock that... "Well, can you order it?"

I'm tempted to walk into a chemist & ask for a box of seconal as if it were a-okay to buy off the shelf & then act appalled when the answer comes...
 
HAHAHA! Yea, that would be fun. And especially since i HATE pharmacists!
(And some docs as well)

@Limpet_Chicken:

So you've been on Veronal? I knew that, and phenobarbital, is still available.
But they're long-acting barbiturates, and people have told me that the long-acting ones aren't good.

My only experience with barbs is Amytal, but that's years ago, and I liked them.
They were 200 mg capsules, so they knocked me out at that those.
But when I opened them and took only 1/4 of it (like 50 mg), it was less sedating, but very euphoric. Kinda like Valium and booze in one.
But older people have told me that Seconal was better than Amytal.

By the way, was Doriden a barbiturate?
Worked amazing for insomnia I remember.
 
Doriden, AKA glutethimide, no, it isn't a barbiturate, but a piperidine derivative, notable for, aside from its sedative effect, being an inducer of the liver enzyme cyrochrome p450-2D6, the one responsible for metabolism of codeine to morphine, vastly increasing the conversion and potentiating codeine greatly. Always wanted to try it myself, both alone and with codeine.

Unsure if it is still used though, its certainly one of the older downers, and I don't know if it was ever used in clinical practise in the UK.

Potentially dangerous though for longterm use, apparently it can cause withdrawal of some sort whilst still on the drug without altering the dose.

A relative of it is still in clinical use for certain purposes, although certainly not as a downer, aminoglutethimide is used to treat certain cancers and to prevent bollock-shrinkage by steroid use by bodybuilders as it blocks synthesis of corticosteroids.

Not sure if it possesses sedative effects though, and I sure as buggery wouldn't try it either.

No idea about phenobarb not being any good, never had it, and I won't touch barbs now, both thanks to the heinous experience I had with the withdrawal/dependency, and the fact that they are AMPA-type glutamate receptor antagonists (albeit of a most unusual mode of action regarding the way they antagonise AMPA receptor signalling, potentially doing so for a quite long period)

Like I say, twatting hell only knows wether phenobarb is any good, veronal was most enjoyable though, it is long acting, but is definately pleasant stuff, at least, if one doesn't withdraw, become dependent, or kill themselves due to the intrinsic danger common to all barbs) I have never tried any other barb to compare with other than veronal, so I really cannot say wether short/medium acting ones are better, worse, or inbetween.
 
Doriden is probably long gone as well.

I wish they could make more effective sleeping pills for insomniacs than the ones available today.

Benzodiazepines are great as tranquilizers, but as hypnotics they always seem to fail me. With the exeption of temazepam perhaps... I find temazepam the best hypnotic-benzo. Flurazepam sucks. Not fond of Halcion either.
And Ambien is just a joke! I mean, OTC doxylamine works better than Ambien.
 
Ambien works for some people, but I think it was more an attempt by a pharm company to get back into a market (hypnotics) that was slowly being taken over by either older (and therefore generic) drugs or OTC drugs/herbs.

Makes sense to me. With the huge surge of people being scripted stimulants, it would make sense for somebody to decide to start marketing another "addiction proof" depressant.

*Of course, Ambien is anything but addiction proof.
 
Anybody know if butalbital is any good for anxiety? It has caffeine in the pills but i think i can handle that without it having an acute effect on the anxiety itself. I heard it's nothing special which is ok, i'm not looking for anything recreational.
 
I was prescibed Seconal here in the US in 2000 for horrid insomnia I was having after having a deadly bout of tonsilitis and a dangerous tonsilectomy. I have always had insomnia but the sequence of events exacerbated my insomnia. I really did not enjoy and it didn't seem to help much. It was a one shot deal. I tried it for a week and that was that. So it has been 11 years since I have ever seen or used it.
 
Thank you again for all of your responces.

When I think about it, I suspect that nowadays, barbiturates has become very overrated and over-hyped-up. That often happens to drugs that dissapear, people tend to think they're so much better than they actually are (and many would probably be very dissapointed when they tried it).
My experience with Amytal is probably not so different to what an experience with Seconal would've been, since they're probably much very alike.

In the worst insomnia-scenario you could ever imagine, I think Seconal and other barbiturates would come to short as well.
Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) would probably work as well (or not at all) as Seconal would.
I suspect they wouldn't work THAT good.
If you ever get that type of insomnia, a doc would probably prescribe a high dose of Thorazine or Nozinan. That stuff knocks ANYONE out for hours!

Rohypnol is another hyped-up drug today. Many imagine they must be "heaven", but actually, it's just another benzodiazepine, like the others. True, it has powerful hypnotic effect, and is almost guaranteed to have good effect on Insomnia, better than Ambien, but still...Much fuzz about nothing I'd say.
I live in a country where Rohypnol was the most common prescribed sleeping-pill 20 years ago, and I was prescribed it for insomnia several times. Sure, it worked well. Did the same job as 20 mg of Valium would have.

FYI, Rohypnol is no longer available where I live.

Just my thoughts of this today, thank you all for contributing.
 
Anybody know if butalbital is any good for anxiety? It has caffeine in the pills but i think i can handle that without it having an acute effect on the anxiety itself. I heard it's nothing special which is ok, i'm not looking for anything recreational.

It does help a lot with anxiety (naturally haha). I was at one time (a while ago now) prescribed Fioricet without caffeine, so it was just butalbital and APAP. It felt a lot like eating a whole bunch of Valium, to be honest.
 
I have never personally had flunitrazepam, but I bet its pretty damn similar to nitrazepam, which I am scripted, my doc pretty much is willing to give me it every time I go in for my two weekly regular med repeat scripts, but he knows that I actually only use it occasionally, at a higher dose than scripted, I.E instead of 1x5mg per night, perhaps 15-25mg on those occasions when I experience insomnia that appears refractory to pretty much anything else, temazepam, diazepam I have those lying around, but sometimes I just cannot sleep, and even rediculous rectal doses of tizanidine fail (alpha2 adrenoreceptor agonist, 4mg plugged without fail usually KO-s me in 10 minutes)

Occasionally for some reason I just get unable to sleep, and need repeated doses of the tizanidine up to 20mg per!!!! those times, I combine it with a fair bit of nitrazepam and it usually prevents me from waking.

After that though, I usually sleep for the entire of the following day, as well as the night its taken (long acting, long, long long acting, although I think flunitrazepam is a bit shorter)

Guessing rohypnol is fairly similar, so perhaps my experience with nitrazepam will give some points for comparison.

Recreational potential....erm...I'm not completely sure, I don't mind taking a couple of of 5mg tabs if I'm drinking, and its nice as the icing on the cake when I take a recreational dose of opiates (as opposed to analgesic, which I need daily, thanks to my knee joint being fucked up, nerve damage on the side and chronic tendonitis...yay fucking great :/ )

Otherwise I don't personally find taking benzos alone particularly recreational.

Nitrazepam, and flunitrazepam are potent hypnotic benzos, very strongly hypnotic, much more so in my experience than is temazepam, it is also one of the more strongly amnestic benzos (nitrazepam) and will sure enough fuck you up good if you are aiming for recreational use.
 
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