Schizophrenia and Amphetamine...

[rickolasnice]

(Amphetamine induced psychosis is the closest i've come to being psychotic, and it reminded me of what i think schizophrenia to be like..)

I posted this in another thread, but got no replies..

Just wanna get some thoughts / info on this subject:

I just remembered reading somewhere that the latest idea of the biology behind schizophrenia is that there are less than normal amounts of dopamine receptor sites.. Would that not be equal to (or atleast very similar) to developing a big tolerance to amphetamine? Down-regulation of DA receptor sites? Only difference being schizophrenia is a genetic, un-healable thing while with amphetamine tolerance the receptor sites will eventually upregulate.

I'm pretty amateur when it comes to this stuff so don't take my word for it..

 

[thisusername]

I think the dopamine down regulation theory is for adhd not schizophrenia. If i remeber right schizophrenia is thought to be caused by too much dopamine activity (positive symptoms) thus the use of dopamine antagonists in treatment. There is also a theory that the negative symptoms are caused by not enough glutamate. PCP which both stimulates dopamine and blocks glutamate should be a perfect representation of schizophrenia if the current theory's are correct.

 

[TRPPNASS_DSCOMONKE]

so pcp would be our closest artificial model for schizo'. very interesting.

 

[rickolasnice]

How wrong can i get Thanx for the replies..

This thread can probably be closed now

 

[yaesutom]

I believe I had amphetamine induced psychosis last year..

It was REALLY interesting.. It was so convincing that for months after I returned to normal I still really wondered if some of what i thought at the time is actually true.. (actually i still do a little, there were things that happened i still can't logically explain away)

Anyway, it was nothing like any dissociative trip i've experienced at all - everything was "ultra clear" it made me think that maybe this is what some people experience after many years of meditation.

 

[Ham-milton]

IMHO, amphetamine psychosis is practically indiscernable from regular old psychosis, at least for me. Chuck in a little mania, and they could be the same thing.

But yeah, too little DA =/= schizophrenia, fortunately (unfortunately?) for the "frozen addicts"

 

[grue]

^I also find amphetamine psychosis to more closely resemble schizophrenic positive-symptom psychosis more than any other agent.

There is also a theory that the negative symptoms are caused by not enough glutamate.

My suspicion with negative symptoms is wide-scale downregulation of glutamate and DA tone, really a breakdown of the system, following prolonged high levels of glutamatergic excitotoxicity.

 

[theWorldWithin]

This is an interesting subject but its hard to qualify alot of these opinions. How many of you offering up ideas have experienced both? And is it not likely that if you are schizophrenic you would experience the effects of drugs such as amphetamine in a qualatatively different manner than those without mental illness?

My impression as someone who has not experienced both is that the amp model is more accurate. I find it really inplausible to use the dissociative model because schizophrenics do not appear dissociated even while having episodes.

 

[freqsoft]

I've overdosed more than couple times on various amphetamines and I can tell you that it is similar to a schizophrenic episode. I've been on several antipsychotics and antidepressants throughout my life like Depakote, Haldol, and Zoloft because of my varying mental stability throughout my childhood and adolescence. All of which did not help and only changed my mental-state in certain ways. I haven't been on those drugs for around 5 years but I figured I'd show my psychotic report card before commenting.

I don't believe in the labels of "bipolar" or "schizophrenic" or "adhd" because each individual's case is so specific and unique (and because we don't know primarily why or how they're like that) that I don't feel we can label them like that, but I do know that something inside us that is different than most. I happen to have a unique window into both worlds and I can tell you that amphetamine-induced psychosis is indeed like feeling psychotic because of schizo/bipolar reasons. However, as stated previously, each individuals psychotic experience (drug-induced or not) is going to be unique not only to the individual in varying degree, but also unique to others similar experiences. This being said, in my own experience, some of the effects exhibited by an individual while under the influence of amphetamine can parallel those effects exhibited by schizophrenic individuals during an episode.

 

[yaesutom]

From what i've read it sounds like a bipolar mania episode sounds just like schizophrenia's positive symptoms.

This guy's description of what he went through is about EXACTLY what i experienced last year for some months.. really interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqZ53swGdgg&feature=related

 

[Ham-milton]

the positive symptoms + tons of energy and without the flattened affect (though that's not a positive symptom)

 

[Pharcyde]

while with amphetamine tolerance the receptor sites will eventually upregulate.

I just had a dance with Amp Psychosis like maybe a month ago and I still dont feel like I have really, truely came out of it. I dont know how much longer it will take and I hope that its not permanent

well after checking out webmd...I think Im fucked!!! Hypochondriac

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

This is a double post with the other schizophrenia thread. Perhaps a merge would be beneficial.

Prenatal exposure to certain viruses has been correllated to development of schizophrenia.

Now, it appears that schizophrenia is indeed linked to the dopamine system. It is possible that exposure to these viruses effects the development of the dopamine system. Now, things on any scale of multiple atomic particles, as we no doubt are, change gradually. So the way we interpet out environment effects the dopamine system. Now, when people develop schizophrenia the dopamine system must be being influenced in some manner. We know that amphetamine abuse can modify the dopamine system in such a way so as to induce schizophrenic symptoms. It is likely amphetamine induced psychosis is more temporary because amphetamine abuse is a quicker period of interaction with the brain than the sustained interactions over a persons life that induce schizophrenia.

Consistant with amphetamine psychosis, the dopamine receptors should be upregulated in schizophrenia. Now it is likely that if in schizophrenic individuals dopamine receptors are upregulated, there is a buildup of dopamine in the synapse as the brain attempts to compensate. This is consistant with schizophrenic individuals.

The dopamine system is responsible for pleasure derived from social interaction, food consumption, and other such activities. Now, in schizophrenic individuals it should be likely that as a child they felt socially isolated. Many children feel this way and instead develop depressive tendencies.

Now, my sister felt "socially deprived" as a child and developed depressive tendencies. I.E. wrist cutting, social withdrawal from our family by behaving off-standish, and on a few occassions acting based on imaginary things. However, she did not exhibit out right schizophrenia, and may have even been faking her hallucinations for attention.

My hypothesis would be that the viruses that are correlated with schizophrenia cause an impact on the dopamine system such that instead of developing depressive tendencies, people develop these hallucinations to cope with their social withdrawal. Perhaps in severe cases one is "forced" into the interpretation that they are socially isolated and thus develop the symptoms.

I would suspect that very coherent social support, possibly with aid of light psychedelic or serotonin acting compound, would be more effective in combating depression and possibly schizophrenia than any pharmaceutical.