Scared of Bupenorphine Withrawl any Advice?

[JessFR]

Might I ask, pain or recreation?

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking why I originally started using?

 

[wudbutcher]

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking why I originally started using?

Yes as well as if your decision to keep using involves physical pain management

 

[JessFR]

Yes as well as if your decision to keep using involves physical pain management

I don't suffer from any chronic physical pain problems. I started using heroin recreationally. I was in enormous psychological pain at the time, but not physical pain no.

And my decision to stay on methadone is not to treat physical pain. It is to treat my addiction to heroin.

 

[JessFR]

Before I got on methadone my addiction had fucked up my life so had that I was homeless, begging on the street all day every day, prostituting myself when that wasn't enough. My life was pretty much in ruins.

I wanted to stop, but I was absolutely certain I would not stop if I had to go through withdrawal. I had tried it before, I just wasn't willing to do it. I am still certain that I might never have stopped if I had to do that, I might have been dead before I got to the point of being willing to do that. If I ever did.

Methadone gave me another option, methadone allowed me to stop using and gradually start repairing my life. It no less than save my life.

It's been 3 years since then, and I am still completely certain that I would not be able to remain clean. If I didn't have methadone, id wind up back where I was in no time.

So I am extremely glad that there's no requirement for me to pointlessly destroy what I've managed to regain, just to appease someone's belief that people should ultimately be trying to get off drugs entirely.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

The problem is when you take a young adult, 21 or so that has a 1 year addiction, toss him on even 80mg, you have created a worse addict in the process. Or have let him roam free and become worse than the day he came. Happens to lots, if not all. Once you get on methadone, you generally don't become the most healthy person out.

Methadone is also a precursor to benzo and alcohol dependence.

Worst of all, you have to walk around with a withdrawal hanging over your head. What if you can't get your dose? Its serious shit to be hooked on. If you ever were not able to get methadone (or any opiate) you would see everything you fixed on methadone, perhaps even your life (cold turkey from 80mg could possibly kill you) will now go bye bye.

Better than heroin and begging, yes. Best to try every method to be clean before submitting to a life of methadone treatment, or even in the years time frame.

 

[Deru]

@TheInvisibleStoner

I couldn’t agree with your post more.

 

[JessFR]

Before I got off heroin. I woke up in withdrawal every single day. I would regularly have to beg for money, in withdrawal, during winter.

I was extremely familiar with withdrawal and I'm telling you that I was never going to be willing go get off heroin if it involved having to go through withdrawal. I would have simply kept using and that's it.

It is an extremely bad argument to say "but what if yoh weren't able to get your methadone". If I weren't able to get it for a prolonged period, I'd relapse.

As opposed to what? Having stayed on heroin form then till now? Is that better?

I feel like you're not hearing what I'm saying. There was a zero chance I was gonna get off heroin anytime soon, if at all, without substitution therapy.

Im not gonna say that everybody with any opiate habit should be getting on methadone, of course not.

Neither am I going to tell you that every methadone treatment facility in the world is flawlessly run with nothing but the best interests of everyone who walks through the door.

I am saying that methadone and buprenorphine, overall, represent one of the best treatments available, and that lot of opiate addicts will find that they're best served by using them on a long term.

And i am saying that methadone saves some people's lives and that I am one of those people.

And finally I am saying that the fact that methadone isn't a flawless therapy perfect for everyone at every stage of addiction does not make it not one of the best therapies available. And that the fact that it is not flawless in no way means other approaches with substantially worse results in the data are automatically better.

EDIT: actually one more thing id say. If you make it a policy that people can only be on methadone for 2 years and then have to stop. That WILL kill people. People WILL die as a direct consequence of that policy. Guaranteed.

 

[wudbutcher]

Before I got on methadone my addiction had fucked up my life so had that I was homeless, begging on the street all day every day, prostituting myself when that wasn't enough. My life was pretty much in ruins.

I wanted to stop, but I was absolutely certain I would not stop if I had to go through withdrawal. I had tried it before, I just wasn't willing to do it. I am still certain that I might never have stopped if I had to do that, I might have been dead before I got to the point of being willing to do that. If I ever did.

Methadone gave me another option, methadone allowed me to stop using and gradually start repairing my life. It no less than save my life.

It's been 3 years since then, and I am still completely certain that I would not be able to remain clean. If I didn't have methadone, id wind up back where I was in no time.

So I am extremely glad that there's no requirement for me to pointlessly destroy what I've managed to regain, just to appease someone's belief that people should ultimately be trying to get off drugs entirely.

Well, I hope someday that you’re free of it completely. Just seems a potential disaster waiting, as I said, for the stars to align. Loss of a loved one, relationships, or the clinic burns down. Aka triggers. Though you can’t be convinced, I’ll bet you’re stronger than you think. Best of luck

 

[JessFR]

Well, I hope someday that you’re free of it completely. Just seems a potential disaster waiting, as I said, for the stars to align. Loss of a loved one, relationships, or the clinic burns down. Aka triggers. Though you can’t be convinced, I’ll bet you’re stronger than you think. Best of luck

Wtf kinda logic is that?

First of all I'll say it again, there was NO OTHER option I was prepared to accept. I would simply have kept using.

But say there had been. The datas pretty clear, you are MORE likely to relapse when life gets bad if you're on no substitution therapy then if you were.

It's like you're arguing that once people get clean off opiates they never relapse. Not only do they relapse, they relapse in higher numbers than on methadone and they are astronomically more likely to die when they relapse than people on methadone.

A LOT of people have died because well meaning yet misguided loved ones pressured them to get off methadone then they relapsed, and without a tolerance they dropped dead.

All because of this misguided notion that people have to get clean of opiates and anything less isn't good enough. It's dangerous, bad advice that costs lives.

EDIT: in addition to not being willing to go through withdrawal I also wasn't willing to have to deal with PAWS for who knows how long. That kills people too. And I don't think anyone should feel bad for refusing to accept an option that very likely result in depression.

 

[JessFR]

I apologize if I'm getting needlessly aggressive or hostile in my replies. It's just I feel very strongly about this. I mean it's an argument that if followed would, in my view, pointlessly destroy my life, obviously I'm gonna feel strongly about that.

And that's on top of being prone to getting overly emotional about shit to start with.

So yeah, if I get overly hostile I apologize. I get that what you're saying is coming from a place of good intentions. It's just, good intentions involving getting people off methadone have killed a lot of people.

It really does seem like an extraordinarily bad argument to me though to argue that "but methadone doesn't guarantee you'll never relapse ever!".

 

[JessFR]

Well, I hope someday that you’re free of it completely. Just seems a potential disaster waiting, as I said, for the stars to align. Loss of a loved one, relationships, or the clinic burns down. Aka triggers. Though you can’t be convinced, I’ll bet you’re stronger than you think. Best of luck

So I've had time to calm down, and if nothing else I do wanna thank you for your words of encouragement even if I don't agree more broadly.

I hope I'm one day able to truly leave opioids behind too. I just don't expect it to be any time soon.