Sativa psychosis and effective counter-measures

[szuko000]

All drugs can have negetive effects on people who use them. These can range from mental or physical issues to issues with relationships. I don't know why people who smoke weed can't grasp this concept.

 

[yteek]

You sound like you're an anti-drugs aficionado and here to preach the evils of drugs to us all?

i don't think it was much anti drug, it made sense to me..until cns depressant highs resemble depression....can't really see that.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Produced Raw, when was the last time you smoked bud with significant amounts of THC and no other cannabinoid? Seriously, tell me!

 

[freehugs]

Produced Raw, when was the last time you smoked bud with significant amounts of THC and no other cannabinoid? Seriously, tell me!

qft

I would say a vast majority of high ratio THC to CBD strains are only available in clubs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you can't get fire on the streets, I'm just saying that a lot of what people are smoking DOES in fact have other cannabinoids in them to counter act the 'psychosis' from THC. I mean, for fucks sake, its weed. You know its not physically bad for you, so why freak out when your heart rate speeds up a bit? I just don't get it.

 

[Foreigner]

My input here is ancedotal and I make no claims for how cannabis affects anyone else, but I do find that sativas seem substantially more catabolic for me than indica-dominant strains. If I smoke a sativa before 7pm, I will be awake until 3-4am guaranteed, regardless of how tired I was at the outset. It is just too mentally stimulating, and I reserve it for days when I'm very physically active and have some outlet for all that energy. Indicas on the other hand, while still stimulating, help me to sleep earlier.

I've had genetic testing done and my CYP450 enzyme pathways are either single copies or they are damaged. Although I don't know the exact pathways that cannabinoids from pot are metabolized, I notice that my metabolism of pot is slow and simultaneously incomplete. Other people the get the munchies whereas my appetite is completely neutralized with smoking - even if I was hungry before smoking. Therefore, I must eat before I smoke. Pot does not make me sleep, it wakes me up, and sativas are way worse for this. If I use a vaporizor, I am only high for 30-45 minutes, and then I return very close to sobriety - I'm assuming because the molecule is less complete, or something along those lines.

I mention all this because people who suffer from psychosis may have dysfunctionalities in their liver enzymes, resulting in slow or incomplete metabolism of the molecules, leading to toxic build up in the body. It's not toxic in the overdose sense, but in the sense that it may over-simulate the nervous system at doses that are "normal" for a lot of people (i.e. a single joint). If your body isn't clearing the chemicals fast enough then I can see how psychosis would be a result. All that stimulation is really ungrounding, especially if you have reached your tolerance and are being extended beyond it. That's where anxiety, panic, and delusional thinking sets in. Just my hypothesis.

My intuitive understanding of sativas and psychosis is that they exhaust the mind, even when it has reached its need for rest. It just keeps going and going. I'm not someone who is pre-disposed to psychosis but I have definitely felt psychotic from the burnout of this sub-species. I definitely cannot smoke sativas daily without feeling burn out. Mind you, indicas are not perfect for me either.

 

[ProducedRaw]

You sound like you're an anti-drugs aficionado and here to preach the evils of drugs to us all?

That's not my intention. I see this discussion as being analogous to people who drink discussing hangover cures. There's nothing wrong with taking drugs, all drugs have side effects, it makes sense to understand how and why these side effects happen as well as having strategies to counter them. I'm pro-drug, I'm just trying to learn how to be more responsible with my usage.

Produced Raw, when was the last time you smoked bud with significant amounts of THC and no other cannabinoid? Seriously, tell me!

Never. Maybe if you smoked less you'd be able to respond to things I actually said.


After doing some more 'xperimenting and reading, I strongly suspect that there is an interaction between caffeine and cannabis, particularly between sativa's and caffeine and even more particularly between sativa's and coffee. I also suspect that there is interaction between opioids and cannabis.

Cannabidiol exerts it's anxiolytic effect by agonising adenosine receptors (http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...proves-cognition/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk):

Erica Carrier and co-workers at the Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, determined that CBD exerts its anti-anxiety effects by activating the adenosine receptors

Caffeine does the exact opposite by antagonising adenosine receptors, and competitively too (http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/99/19/2499.full):

Caffeine acts mainly via blockade of adenosine receptors

In other words, combining a Sativa with caffeine results in the blockade of Cannabidiol's anxiolytic and, I assume, anti-psychotic effect. High doses of caffeine in isolation can also induce psychosis (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19407709):

As a competitive adenosine antagonist, caffeine affects dopamine transmission and has been reported to worsen psychosis in people with schizophrenia and to cause psychosis in otherwise healthy people

There is a further addition to this in that caffeine increases Cortisol levels (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16631247):

Caffeine elevates cortisol secretion

Which in turn raises dopamine levels (http://www.jneurosci.org/content/24/11/2825):

...consistent with a facilitating effect of cortisol on dopamine neuron firing

It's pretty clear that psychosis is a function of high dopamine levels with a lack of counter balance. Coffee does something differently to caffeine alone - it also contains MAOI's which serve to further increase dopamine levels (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/coffee-maoi.htm):

coffee contains compounds acting as MAO inhibitors

So there is a strong interaction between caffeine and sativa's. What about opioids?


Morphine appears to induce hypersensitivity in NA and DA receptors, unless taken chronically, where it does the exact opposite (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12119450):

hyperactivity, reverse tolerance and postsynaptic dopamine receptor supersensitivity induced by morphine

This, and my personal experience, suggests that chippers are more likely to experience psychotic symptoms from Sativa strains than opioid-naive people. It also suggests that junkies are less likely to experience Cannabis-induced psychosis, until they withdraw, I guess.

Another interesting question is why do so many people smoke weed half their lives then suddenly develop anxiety from it? From the paper above, we can see that GABA has a substantial effect on calming down those DA receptors. Most people in our society drink. Alcohol has a strong effect on GABA. A strong effect produces tolerance which reduces the effect of GABA which then reduces the inhibition of Dopamine and ends up making one more likely to experience cannabis-induced psychosis.

but in most cases it is cured by smocking some more charas

This is an interesting point. Perhaps if the psychosis is brought on by excessive dopamine and smoking yet more releases yet more dopamine, the body adapts and downregulates DA receptors and the problem is solved?

So that's four more counters to this problem. Stop consuming caffeine, drink less, smoke more and stop chipping or make the jump and become a heroin fiend.

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

Very interesting study:

Cannabidiol, a Cannabis sativa constituent, as an antipsychotic drug

hahah great minds think alike

You being baked and freaking out because your heart is beating too fast isnt psychosis, that's you not understanding that you're not in any physical danger. Educate yourself.

without a doubt... just breathing deep can really bring you down. If it's causing paranoid delusions, then yeah by all means just stop - it's not for you.