Salvia interaction with opiates

[TheTripDoctor]

Salvinorin A is known to be a strong Kappa receptor agonist, with comparable affinity for that receptor to many of the opiates that are strong agonists at Kappa. Though it is not just an opiate in effect, it does seem to cause some sedation in some people, which is what the Kappa receptor does, its attributed with the "nodding" from heroin use.



So the main point i wanted to make is, what interaction is there between saliva and opiates?



and questions i want to ask......


Have any of you who are ON opiates, IE dependant, noticed a difference in effect from saliva while ON and then OFF opiates at some point?

And, has anyone else combined salvia with an opiate, and then also used salvia alone, was there any difference in the effect of the salvia?

Did the salvia completely drop the other opiate off in effect? (unlikely since salvia has no MU activity to block it)

Or did the other opiate BLOCK salvia from ITS effect? (which is more likely but not a sure thing)

 

[Xorkoth]

I was pretty sure that the mu opioid receptor was primarily responsible for the sedation/nodding and addictive aspects of opiates. I was under the impression that the kappa opiate receptor is not really much, if any, of a part in regular opiates. I have definitely read somewhere that there are synthetic kappa opiate agonists, and that their effects are generally perceived to be creepy and quite unpleasant to test subjects, and many have refused further testing because of that. The kappa opiate receptors are quite a mystery to us at this point, I think.

 

[TheTripDoctor]

kappa

κ-Opioid receptors are also involved with analgesia, but activation also produces marked nausea and dysphoria. The endogenous ligands (naturally occurring substances which activate the receptor) are the dynorphins. κ receptors are located in the periphery by pain neurons, in the spinal cord and in the brain. Some κ-Opioid receptor agonists, such as salvinorin A have been found to be hallucinogenic although in different way than other hallucinogens such as LSD [3].

this suggests some interesting future research around the issue of whether naltrexone (general opioid antagonist) would reduce or eliminate effects from salvinorin,

The mu receptor is most commonly associated with euphoria and pain relief. The kappa receptor is most commonly associated with sedation (the nodding often seen in Heroin addicts).

Thats what im talkin about

If naltrexone or naloxone could block salvinorin by antagonist activity, then a stronger binding kappa agonist could as well, since that would also "block" salvinorin from binding, and might even kick it off a receptor if it were occupied already.

Also, there are a few drugs used as painkillers etc, that are kappa antagonists, buprenorphine is one of them

 

[Intoxo]

I smoked salvia on heron and it worked just fine. Made the heroin buzz seem chintzy and contrived.

 

[TheTripDoctor]

Oh i know it works i meant is there any difference between salvia ON opiates and OFF opiates, some opiates would cause a bigger difference than others because of strong/lack of kappa activity depending on the opiate.

 

[Xorkoth]

Interesting. You learn something new every day...

 

[Blador]

I've read on goodman & gilman that pentazocine and nalbuphine are kappa agonists, and may produce psychotic reactions at high doses. I wonder if there is any similarity with a salvia experience..

 

[Youkai]

I was pretty sure that the mu opioid receptor was primarily responsible for the sedation/nodding and addictive aspects of opiates. I was under the impression that the kappa opiate receptor is not really much, if any, of a part in regular opiates. I have definitely read somewhere that there are synthetic kappa opiate agonists, and that their effects are generally perceived to be creepy and quite unpleasant to test subjects, and many have refused further testing because of that. The kappa opiate receptors are quite a mystery to us at this point, I think.

I thought that once again we discovered just another building block to how we view reality threw perseption and that the kappa opiate receptor helped modulate perceptions. I think tehre is a artical on pub med about it, I'll look.

 

[chaosbydesign]

I decided to bring this old thread back up because I was Googling on the topic, and this is the only bluelight thread that came up on the matter. I think that it seems like a worthwhile topic for discussion. Does anybody else have anything to add/answer?

 

[ThelemicMage]

Combining Salvia with Opiates

I must concur with the above reply. More information must be posted on this topic. However, I have some info from direct experience to relate to anyone interested in the subject.

I used Salvia along with Kratom to rip myself off of methadone in 2006-2007. I must say before anything else that Salvia is known to be an ANTAGONIST to Mu receptors, by some references. Google it.

When withdrawal would wake me up, shivering and sweating in the dead of the night, I would take a dose of Kratom, and smoke a bowl of Salvia. Sometimes extract, sometimes leaf. (I had been smoking for a while so I am keen and sensitive to the effects at low doses.) The Kratom would start to relieve me. However when I smoked the salvia, I could feel it pushing the methadone out of my receptors pushing me into withdrawal.

For those unfamiliar with the effects of psychedelics on addiction, they will literally physically heal the brain. In the case of opiate addicts, this means a making the new receptors that heroine creates, stop screaming for the opiates. I do not know if this has to do with making them go dormant, or just healing them in a way that makes them not dependent on opiates.

As I began to trip and feel the withdrawal, the effects of healing were right behind it, ready to throw me into almost painless self-introspection, with visuals connecting my psyche to the problems behind my addiction. I must report here a most unique experience:

One night in particular, I had just smoked the salvia. I turned on the TV and the first thing that showed up behind the blackness was the five colors flying in that were the five parts of the pentagram/lions of the cartoon "Voltron". It was on adult swim for the first time, and I was thinking "did I just teleport back to when I was a child, watching voltron, as soon as I turned on the TV?"

It was to my amazement, still tripping, looking around that I indeed did not teleport to childhood, but that adult swim was now showing voltron. Weird.

To continue, when the ten-20 minute trip wears off, it has it's own opiate, sedative quality, maybe due to kappa receptor activity declination, or maybe mu or delta activity. The Kratom would then _really_ take hold and normalize the withdrawal long enough to get to the clinic the next morning. I was coming off of 20mg methadone a week, 260 daily dose. Yeah, I know.

Not knowing salvia before I had a habit, I do not know the effects of a fresh brain on salvia and opiates. I do, however combine salvia and pods/kratom on a semi-regular basis with varied results. Antagonism of mu receptors has been noted.

Basically, if you have a habit, and you wish to indulge in our sweet lady Sage, then then be prepared to have a dose of "straightness" when you finish. Try pods or kratom. If you're on a budget, then you shouldn't have a habit in the first place. Experiment with caution, and use your brains and instincts.

Frank

93
93/93

 

[RhythmSpring]

Here is a thread I started a few weeks ago on the same exact subject:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...nd-Salvia?highlight=salvia+opioid+interaction

I'm also interested in this. I am interested in Salvia's ability to "reset" the brain. I can imagine that it would be helpful in quitting, not only neurochemically but also in showing the user the vanity of his/her own addiction.

Opioids affect me unusually--Kratom effects me for 3-4 days. 2.5mg hydrocodone gets me high and I feel it lingering for days after.

I did Salvia about 48 hours after a round of percocets (post operation), and it brought me to a profound, blissful and consciousness-expanding state that I feel would not have happened if I hadn't taken the percs in the recent past. Speculation.

 

[At4r4xis]

I didthe Herron before some 5x salvia, and it seemed like the salvia couldnt come thru. it was there though. no perfuse sweating and no wigging out- it was manageable and did not last long. i have respect for salvia and dont necessarily feel like doing that again especially bc its not showing itself like ti should