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Salvia Divinorum as an Antidepressant (KOR and sleep deprivation)

cyoung

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
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Has anyone read any studies linking KAPPA-OPIOID activity to SLEEP DEPRIVATION ??

I subscribe to the belief that one of the main processes leading to dysphoria/dysthymia/depression is the reduction of dopaminergic transmission in the reward system as a result of increased kappa-opioid activity, if not in all cases, than at least in the subset of people with active or past addiction. In any case, based on all the studies I've read, I've come to the conclusion that the inversely related kappa-opioid and mu-opioid receptor modulation of the reward system is the foremost agent demonstrating the ability to determine human mood, emotions, feelings, and affect. Cognitively, after reviewing the literature, I believe that dysphoria/dysthymia/depression all boils down to the dominance of kappa-opioid activity over mu-opioid activity, leading to excessive depression of the reward system and over-activation of the fear/aversion circuitry.

That being said, I would advocate that the closest thing to a cure for depression would lie in either 1) a kappa-opioid antagonist that does not induce upregulation of the kappa system (i.e. it continues working), or 2) a treatment regime based on regularly administering a potent kappa-opioid agonist that floods the receptor (such as salvia), thereby causing down-regulation of the kappa receptor. Ideally, I should be able to back this theory up by personal experience and experimentation.

Accordingly, I've worked up the courage to do salvia just a handful of times in the past, and experienced subsequent relief of depression and severe anhedonia. The issue is merely that the experience for me can be terrifying, so each time I have a huge aversion to doing it the next time, and therefore it can become a difficult treatment regime to maintain, although I plan to try it again soon. The big advantage here of course is that the intensely dysphoric period is so short (about 15 minutes), providing relief that lasts much longer (1-3 days). In other words, it's a good value for your time, but there is no way around experiencing that short but terrifying trip on a semi-regular basis.

The only other treatment that has ever worked for me, including the slew of prescribed and non-prescribed drugs that I've taken, has been sleep deprivation. It has a near miraculous effect on me, like flipping a light switch allowing me to experience joy and pleasure again versus anhedonia and anxiety. It lasts until I sleep again. Accordingly, after a night or two of sleep deprivation, I feel normal and happy, but there's no way sustain it without eventually crashing. This brings me to my question above -- Has anyone read any studies linking sleep deprivation to kappa and/or mu opioid activity? There must be a link here, even if the effect of sleep deprivation is indirect and relies on some other chain of systems such as the pituitary axes.

Accordingly, anyone who might be able to elucidate this link would be profoundly appreciated. Thank You !!


By the way, I'm new to Bluelight, so how does one go about making this a separate thread, because I don't know that it belongs here.
 
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Cognitively, after reviewing the literature, I believe that dysphoria/dysthymia/depression all boils down to the dominance of kappa-opioid activity over mu-opioid activity, leading to excessive depression of the reward system and over-activation of the fear/aversion circuitry.

In a system as complex as the brain I'm gonna go ahead and say: it's not anywhere near that simple for everyone. I've definitely heard of salvia acting as a rapid action antidepressant, though. You should try taking it sublingually/buccally (holding leaves or extract in your mouth, between your cheek and gum, or under your tongue) -- it is reported to still be effective for depression that way but without the intense psychedelic experience. Here's an experience of someone who did that. It seemed to work well for her.

Salvinorin actually acts as a weak CB1 cannabinoid receptor agonist as well as a FAAH inhibitor, increasing the brain's natural levels of endocannabinoids. Cool stuff.

a treatment regime based on regularly administering a potent kappa-opioid agonist that floods the receptor (such as salvia), thereby causing down-regulation of the kappa receptor.

Does the kappa opioid receptor really downregulate that quickly, though? I thought there were claims that salvia has somewhat of an inverse tolerance, and moreover it takes more than a single 15-minute blast of activation to trigger downregulation. Other drugs with short half lives, like DMT (especially DMT), midazolam, and fentanyl (esp. in profesional usage as a surgical anesthetic) also have this issue, where you have to be basically continuously consuming the drug to get a tolerance going. I've not heard of someone going in for a surgical procedure and walking out with a benzo tolerance ten times higher after the doc uses midazolam to put you out for 30 mins.

It would be interesting to try DMT and see if that has the same effect as an anti-depressant.


By the way, I'm new to Bluelight, so how does one go about making this a separate thread, because I don't know that it belongs here.

I will split this out to its own thread. You have to go to the index of the forum you want to post in (the page that shows you all of the posts), and there is a Create new Thread button.
 
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You really find salvia terrifying? And dysphoric? What are you smoking like 40x? Try smoking just the leaf. Its not too potent, you can still 'trip' but its more subtle and much more 'natural' of an experience. I also find that after 5 or so minutes there's actually a sense of euphoria as well that can last for an hour or two.


Join Date: Jun 2008

That doesn't seem very new to me. 8)
 
I've suffered from serious depressive episodes since my adolescent years, and I've also observed that sleep deprivation almost always raises my mood. In the morning after only sleeping a couple hours, or none at all, I feel fresher, more energized, and more relaxed. Whereas after sleeping 8 or 10 hours, I usually feel miserable and tired for the first half of the day. Kind of strange, since sleep deprivation degrades so much brain function, you might assume it would leave you feeling worse.

During manic periods sleep need is reduced dramatically. So it seems like raised mood / euphoria has some underlying connection with lack of sleep, and depression with excessive sleep. When I am in depressive episodes, I often sleep 14 hours a day or more.
 
I have a question. What is the mecanism to feel an afterglow? Is the salvia afterglow special? The feeling I had a few times after taking salvia was similary with the feeling you can expercience when you are focused and great when you meditate. A fucking natural great feeling of beeing centred and thankful to live. No other hallucinogen or dissociative gave me that feeling salvia/meditation gave me.
 
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