Misc Safe DXM dosage as morphine potentiator

[DeathIndustrial88]

Something I suppose I was mistaken about I thought that opiates lingered longer in the system , like in a heroin addict for instance,
and if a heroin addict stopped for like 3 days just for DXM(like a heavy 2nd plat+ dose)
then theyd probably face potentiation from the lingered heroin = may face respiratory depression/unpleasant effects.
Thats where my train of thought was.

Heroin (diacetylmorphine) has an incredibly short half life.

you also went between saying low dose for opiates
then said third plateau dose for "tolerance reset"

Yes, low dose for potentiation, high dose for "tolerance reset". What's so difficult to understand about that?


As has been pointed out by me and several others now, dxm does play a role in potentiation & tolerance reduction. Same as any NDMA antagonist.

And yeah, I do have plenty of experience. I'm almost 34 years old and have been using both DXM + opioids since I was 19.

And I also agree with negrogesic. This combination is better for people who take opioids daily/chronically and they have lost their analgesia. Don't necessarily expect full blown euphoria to return, but some one who is in pain may experience added relief by adding a small dose of DXM (for potentiation). And those with DXM experience, can take higher-dosed trips and then take their opioid after the trip or the next day and they will experience stronger effects (until their tolerance goes right back up). Also higher chances of side effects (from both the opioid & dxm). I found DXM to increase the sedating qualities of opioids, exponentially. I have done this with, heroin, tramadol, buprenorphine, morphine, codeine, propoxyphene, etc.. And in almost every instance, the DXM made my opioid more noddy & sedating.

 

[Sk1500]

I posted this awhile back, for me personally now having experimented I find the best potentiators Cyclizine and Methacarbamol, over dxm or white grapefruit. I'm on benzos tho so could be that thats being potentiated. Dunno, not experienced enough to answer, dxm was OK though and outta the 3 I had mentioned the only OTC one.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Melatonin (which is OTC) may have tolerance related benefits as well.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/fcp.12566

I've tried taking melatonin on the nights before dosing and didn't notice much, besides more drowsiness in the morning, but I thought this was an interesting read (there's more about it on google too) for those looking to get their opioid tolerance lowered.

"Melatonin reduces the
activation of NMDA receptor which plays an important
role in the molecular mechanisms of morphine tolerance
[4]."

I found taking 5-htp to help a little with analgesia potentiation (nothing spectacular though). But it would make sense, I think 5-htp turns to serotonin, which then becomes melatonin (don't quote me on that).



With that said, there have only been 2 times I felt like I was gonna OD on opioids in my almost 15 years of using. One time was when I was given fentanyl instead of heroin. And the other was when I took melatonin ontop of a small (2mg or less) dose of buprenorphine (with a low tolerance). My breathing became so labored that I thought for sure if I went to bed, I would die (could have been a panic attack I guess as well) and had to stay on the phone with a friend til I felt safe enough to pass out. What's odd is bupe is not known for causing that level of respiratory depression usually, so I wonder what happened there. It hasn't happened again in years, but begs the question how safe the melatonin + opioid combo is. Especially since the right dose of melatonin alone can knock a person on their ass. I couldn't imagine feeling that way while an opioid was already peaking. But melatonin is pretty benign as well, so I dunno.

 

[Sk1500]

I was prescribed Melatonin myself about 8 years ago. I think I was only on dhc, diazepam and zopiclone at the time and I felt absolutely no difference with Melatonin added. I was trying to get the zopiclone switched for Mogadon and the doc wasn't budging

Strangely it was changed from normal GP prescription to controlled drug, with a secondary care approval few years after.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I was prescribed Melatonin myself about 8 years ago. I think I was only on dhc, diazepam and zopiclone at the time and I felt absolutely no difference with Melatonin added. I was trying to get the zopiclone switched for Mogadon and the doc wasn't budging

Strangely it was changed from normal GP prescription to controlled drug, with a secondary care approval few years after.

Really? Are you in the US?
Melatonin is over the counter here.

but yeah, my handful of experiences using melatonin weren't that great either, but thought the research on it was interesting. And from the sounds of it, it should theoretically work to some degree. But if it did, everyone would be hooked on melatonin-opioid combos. lol

 

[Sk1500]

Really? Are you in the US?
Melatonin is over the counter here.

but yeah, my handful of experiences using melatonin weren't that great either, but thought the research on it was interesting. And from the sounds of it, it should theoretically work to some degree. But if it did, everyone would be hooked on melatonin-opioid combos. lol

I'm in England and from being on here its quite drastic the differences in who gets what where.

Basically.... for prescriptions (which you pay for unless you fall into 1 of a few categories, diabetic, thyroid problems, under 16, over 65, unemployed etc, you pay a standard rate per prescription, regardless of what it is, think about £10 (mines free anyway).

Unless you really know how to work the system for painkillers and benzos they'll only prescribe 99% of the time. Co codomal, dhc, tramadol,Gaberpentin and pregaberlin. If you coming off gear then obviously Methadone, Subutex etc....Getting anything morphine or above is hard work.

I'm on 1g of Oramorph IR Morphine liquid down from 320mg daily.

Even trickier is benzos. I've only ever been on Diazepam, Oxazepam (useless). Managed to get Mogadon few times and Temazepam briefly. Been on Diazepam about 10 years. Most doctors don't really dish them out at all, so I've done pretty well.

I notice looking through posts they seem to dish out loads of different pain killers and benzos that are legal buy getting them is nearly impossible. They'd rather hand out anti psychotic and hope or zopiclone

For OTC stuff not much r7h⁶eally. They do do really weak Co codomal 8/500, quite a lot of antihistamines but even ones like Cyclizine and Methacarbamol (I'm prescribed both).

OTC can get DXM.

I'm starting to feel meds, so writing could plummet quickly lol.

Never had or seen Kava or Kratom!!!

The only one that we can get delivered and cheap and legal, depending if you know where to go is poppy pods. Been getting about 5lbs s week, only been on for couple months built up tolerance quickly ggu.

Typing gone lol

 

[plumbus-nine]

Dissociatives (NMDA antagonists like DXM) don't potentiate the respiratory depression if you're not already overdosing on the opioid there's no additional danger.

Melatonin doesn't do shit, not even as a sleep aid, that's why in most places it's OTC. I did up to 16mg with no effect at all.

 

[Sk1500]

Sorry couldn't concentrate. I've cut way back on the morphine (oramorph). Get weekly and have managed by perseverance and will power to cut down from 1120mg weekly to between 600-800mg oramorph weekly. Tbh though it's probably more the 80-150g PPT (Espresso maker method) thats helped to . Had 40ml Morphine, 3000mg Methacarbamol, 100mg Cyclizine and 20mg diazepam. Surprisingly I can actually feel it and had little nod.

Got a 55g strong PPT, Double wash espresso method, just waiting on 2nd water cycle.

Is it possible to reset tolerance, that's what I was going to ask in 1st place!!!! I can see it being possible for a day or 2 if I stopped taking anything I'm on (apart from the Diý). Someone mentioned using DXM as a way to reset tolerance. I personally aren't that keen on it. Find the Cyclizine or ıthe Methacarbamol best for increasing the effects and speeding up the onset but i'd h ⁸ave to have a couple of weeks off for a few days

Dissociatives (NMDA antagonists like DXM) don't potentiate the respiratory depression if you're not already overdosing on the opioid there's no additional danger.

Melatonin doesn't do shit, not even as a sleep aid, that's why in most places it's OTC. I did up to 16mg with no effect at all.

Yh I remember thinking at the time, 10 years ago ish, this is doing nothing

 

[Sk1500]

Sorry couldn't concentrate. I've cut way back on the morphine (oramorph). Get weekly and have managed by perseverance and will power to cut down from 1120mg weekly to between 600-800mg oramorph weekly. Tbh though it's probably more the 80-150g PPT (Espresso maker method) thats helped to . Had 40ml Morphine, 3000mg Methacarbamol, 100mg Cyclizine and 20mg diazepam. Surprisingly I can actually feel it and had little nod.

Got a 55g strong PPT, Double wash espresso method, just waiting on 2nd water cycle.

Is it possible to reset tolerance, that's what I was going to ask in 1st place!!!! I can see it being possible for a day or 2 if I stopped taking anything I'm on (apart from the Diý). Someone mentioned using DXM as a way to reset tolerance. I personally aren't that keen on it. Find the Cyclizine or ıthe Methacarbamol best for increasing the effects and speeding up the onset but i'd h ⁸ave to have a couple of weeks off for a few days

Yh I remember thinking at the time, 10 years ago ish, this is doing nothing

I've gotta go to sleep clinic in few weeks was having my oxygenated blood levels checker and was really low, cos of the cocktail, was tested through night and was at 84-91%:for an hour, plus waking up withvl literally puddles of phlegm everywhere

 

[plumbus-nine]

Don't know for sure about tolerance reset but it's possible to withdraw completely painlessly from 600mg/d morphine with the aid of dissociatives, for lower amounts even memantine did the trick but you want to go for more than just low dosages. Also maybe you need to stop the opiate completely for a few days to week(s), for as long as withdrawal would last but mask it with the dissos, for the receptors to recover.

 

[Sk1500]

Don't know for sure about tolerance reset but it's possible to withdraw completely painlessly from 600mg/d morphine with the aid of dissociatives, for lower amounts even memantine did the trick but you want to go for more than just low dosages. Also maybe you need to stop the opiate completely for a few days to week(s), for as long as withdrawal would last but mask it with the dissos, for the receptors to recover.

For proper Morphine I'm only on 200mg day max but also can be on up to 150-200g of high quality poppy pods a day, so don't know what that works out at, I read pods have between 7-13% Morphine.

Gotta admit I Don't know what, dissociative or memantine mean lol

Cheers

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

There really is no magic bullet when it comes to resetting tolerance.

And even the substances that do theoretically 'reset' it, doesn't necessarily reset tolerance to the euphoria. Only abstinence can really do that.

If Cyclizine and Methacarbamol work for you then I'd just stick with that.


There is also low dose anatagonist therapy for lowering tolerance, but this is not easy to do if you're dependent.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Ultra low dose naltrexone sounds promising and is used in tiny amounts (micrograms, works because its not a silent antagonist but inverse agonist) which don't trigger withdrawal but this is mostly academic, we have few real reports and these I remember aren't exactly glowing. Maybe it has to do with titrating the right dosage.

Dissociatives are a class of drugs which antagonize the NMDA receptor, like DXM, ketamine or memantine. The latter is the only one of this class which is easily prescribable, it's an anti Alzheimers drug which doesn't seem to work for Alzheimers but helps with other things like anxiety or opioid dependence, lol.

Yeah, there are no magic bullets about euphoria unfortunately, one will eventually become tolerant to dissociatives and that tolerance knows only one way: up. A whole year of abstinence and my tolerance is still as high as it was before - that is like 10x the dosage required. Good thing is it doesn't seem to affect sober state, there's no such thing like dissociative withdrawal and when used sparingly it will take many years to reach such a level. In fact I was dosing daily for multiple years. Would say best is to cycle like a high dose of memantine / middle range of DXM once a week.

Also tolerance to the pain killing effects of opioids seems to be readily reversible, but not to the euphoria.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

plumbus-nine is on point, as always!!

The dissociatives are probably your best bet for resetting/lowering tolerance. But even then, don't expect total miracles.

Low dose naltrexone definitely sounds promising. And theoretically sounds like it would upregulate your mu receptors.


But yeah, in the end, only absitinence or potentiation can really bring the euphoria back. And when you potentiate drugs, you're going to get a tolerance to the potentiator eventually as well.

Cycling with different opioids/different meds is another good way to keep tolerance at bay.