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Russian culture is fucking insane!

knock said:
And of course it continues in less explicit but more potent and insidious ways when we enter the world of work.
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Could you elaborate? I'm awfully young, too young to have had a real job so I don't know what your referring to.

And you're very much welcome with radiolab, it was one of the first podcasts I got into and spawned quite a hobby. Sometimes the topics aren't something that particularly interest me and sometimes its a bit too dumbed down, not enough science too much metaphor type stuff, but that is unavoidable when you're audience is literally everyone and more often than not it's actually spot on.
 
Okami said:
Could you elaborate? I'm awfully young, too young to have had a real job so I don't know what your referring to.
Click to expand...

Really? Grown up head on those young shoulders ;) So I'm sure this will all be a bit fucking obvious:

When we're children, if we're lucky we have our basic needs catered for. Someone else is making sure there is food to eat and a roof over our heads, looking after us when we are ill, taking us somewhere fun in our spare time (and paying for it if necessary). We are not at risk. (If we're lucky. Of course many of us are starving, or being abused, or whatever. But if we were born in the right place and to the right parents, then we're not worried about staying alive and well for the foreseeable future.)

As adults, unless we're very lucky, we've suddenly got the responsibility of a human life on our hands. It becomes a life-or-death situation. We have to provide ourselves with food, shelter and clothing. A lot of us have these insatiable urges that have to be met - to fall in love, to make love, to have children - and for these things to happen, we've got to demonstrate to others that we're capable of doing, for them and for any future children, all the things that up until now someone else (our parents) has done for us.

So we need access to all the things any animal on the planet needs, plus a lot of things that only human animals need. We enter the adult world as a bundle of needs which must be met. But in capitalism, most of us are denied access to them. Every square inch on the planet has been assigned, as property, to some other fuck, or group of fucks. So we can't build a shelter in a nice spot, because someone will come and tell us we don't own the land, and we don't have any building materials anyway, because they're all under close guard too. We can't even lie down on the ground and go to sleep for the night, because someone will come and tell us to move. We can't eat, because all the edible things have been put in fenced-off areas and are guarded by people with guns.

The only way most of us can meet our needs, those of us who don't happen to belong to a family with money and property, is by paying for access to the resources which have been monopolised by people we've never met since before we were born. All the things we need are available, they all exist, there is no actual shortage... but there are people stopping us getting at them unless we make payment. And they're not the kind of people you can negotiate with, or ignore. They've got weapons and systems of detention and so on.

So under threat of violence, or imprisonment, we cannot access the things we need, unless we pay money. And the only safe way to get money is to sell our time, doing work for the same crowd of people who are stopping us getting at the things we need in the first place! It's a bit like a protection racket.

So these are the potent forces which make us conform. We have to act according to the values of capitalism, because capitalism decrees that unless we do so, we cannot live as adult human beings.

That's the main moulding factor I was alluding to, post-school. There are more though. When we enter the world of work, we avoid the stick of death and encounter the carrot of the wage. We usually find ourselves working in co-operative groups, because co-operative groups are the best way of achieving anything significant. When we first start out on a job, we're usually paid less than everyone else around us. All the people we spend time with every work day enjoy standards of living better than our own. They may have nice cars, or fancy gadgets. They might have bought their own home (actually they probably haven't, they're usually paying what amounts to rent, in the form of interest payments on a loan) and we can't afford these things. But we're told if we work hard and show improvement we might get paid better next year. In order to know whether we're working hard, we compare ourselves to our work colleagues. Maybe we know someone who has the sort of lifestyle we envy; so we aim to work at least as hard and as effectively as them. And of course the other workers are also thinking they would like to earn more, so it becomes a competition.

Competition is one of the defining features of capitalism. The workplace is a sort of small-scale image of the capitalist economy.

Fucking hell this post got a bit long! I'm stopping now, for everyone's sake!
 
I love the old soviet union anthem and the cccp (said ess ess ess aerrrr) too many weapons and soldiers to be a nice place. yeh, a world without money is the way forwards indeed.

human nature isn't bad. it's control that makes people bad. the controllers and then the controlled. human nature is against control, though some people accept it and like having leaders.
poor old laika the dog. (I was at the space centre ye'day and there was stuff about the space race.) be jings, i'm off.
 
"it's traditional really" you know, like on local news with idiots dressed in period costume going "it's traditional really, we do it every year" so what if something is everywhere does it become part of de kulture?
 
pinkpapaver said:
"it's traditional really" you know, like on local news with idiots dressed in period costume going "it's traditional really, we do it every year" so what if something is everywhere does it become part of de kulture?
Click to expand...

_45984696_morrismen2.jpg
 
knock said:
Really? Grown up head on those young shoulders ;) So I'm sure this will all be a bit fucking obvious:

When we're children, if we're lucky we have our basic needs catered for. Someone else is making sure there is food to eat and a roof over our heads, looking after us when we are ill, taking us somewhere fun in our spare time (and paying for it if necessary). We are not at risk. (If we're lucky. Of course many of us are starving, or being abused, or whatever. But if we were born in the right place and to the right parents, then we're not worried about staying alive and well for the foreseeable future.)

As adults, unless we're very lucky, we've suddenly got the responsibility of a human life on our hands. It becomes a life-or-death situation. We have to provide ourselves with food, shelter and clothing. A lot of us have these insatiable urges that have to be met - to fall in love, to make love, to have children - and for these things to happen, we've got to demonstrate to others that we're capable of doing, for them and for any future children, all the things that up until now someone else (our parents) has done for us.

So we need access to all the things any animal on the planet needs, plus a lot of things that only human animals need. We enter the adult world as a bundle of needs which must be met. But in capitalism, most of us are denied access to them. Every square inch on the planet has been assigned, as property, to some other fuck, or group of fucks. So we can't build a shelter in a nice spot, because someone will come and tell us we don't own the land, and we don't have any building materials anyway, because they're all under close guard too. We can't even lie down on the ground and go to sleep for the night, because someone will come and tell us to move. We can't eat, because all the edible things have been put in fenced-off areas and are guarded by people with guns.

The only way most of us can meet our needs, those of us who don't happen to belong to a family with money and property, is by paying for access to the resources which have been monopolised by people we've never met since before we were born. All the things we need are available, they all exist, there is no actual shortage... but there are people stopping us getting at them unless we make payment. And they're not the kind of people you can negotiate with, or ignore. They've got weapons and systems of detention and so on.

So under threat of violence, or imprisonment, we cannot access the things we need, unless we pay money. And the only safe way to get money is to sell our time, doing work for the same crowd of people who are stopping us getting at the things we need in the first place! It's a bit like a protection racket.

So these are the potent forces which make us conform. We have to act according to the values of capitalism, because capitalism decrees that unless we do so, we cannot live as adult human beings.

That's the main moulding factor I was alluding to, post-school. There are more though. When we enter the world of work, we avoid the stick of death and encounter the carrot of the wage. We usually find ourselves working in co-operative groups, because co-operative groups are the best way of achieving anything significant. When we first start out on a job, we're usually paid less than everyone else around us. All the people we spend time with every work day enjoy standards of living better than our own. They may have nice cars, or fancy gadgets. They might have bought their own home (actually they probably haven't, they're usually paying what amounts to rent, in the form of interest payments on a loan) and we can't afford these things. But we're told if we work hard and show improvement we might get paid better next year. In order to know whether we're working hard, we compare ourselves to our work colleagues. Maybe we know someone who has the sort of lifestyle we envy; so we aim to work at least as hard and as effectively as them. And of course the other workers are also thinking they would like to earn more, so it becomes a competition.

Competition is one of the defining features of capitalism. The workplace is a sort of small-scale image of the capitalist economy.

Fucking hell this post got a bit long! I'm stopping now, for everyone's sake!
Click to expand...

1 of the best things i've come across in a while.
 
Russians get a bad rap for being gloomy and morbid...

But I think they are one of the most passionate people in the world.
 
Funny you should say that; I just saw a documentary about the prison system in Russia. When they showed the parents getting to visit their children in jail (harsh conditions in Siberia); fathers were completely breaking down with emotion and tears. Never saw that before.

But we view Russians as a cold almost evil people (at least in the US.. cold war remnants)
 
knock said:
Really? Grown up head on those young shoulders ;) So I'm sure this will all be a bit fucking obvious:

When we're children, if we're lucky we have our basic needs catered for. Someone else is making sure there is food to eat and a roof over our heads, looking after us when we are ill, taking us somewhere fun in our spare time (and paying for it if necessary). We are not at risk. (If we're lucky. Of course many of us are starving, or being abused, or whatever. But if we were born in the right place and to the right parents, then we're not worried about staying alive and well for the foreseeable future.)

As adults, unless we're very lucky, we've suddenly got the responsibility of a human life on our hands. It becomes a life-or-death situation. We have to provide ourselves with food, shelter and clothing. A lot of us have these insatiable urges that have to be met - to fall in love, to make love, to have children - and for these things to happen, we've got to demonstrate to others that we're capable of doing, for them and for any future children, all the things that up until now someone else (our parents) has done for us.

So we need access to all the things any animal on the planet needs, plus a lot of things that only human animals need. We enter the adult world as a bundle of needs which must be met. But in capitalism, most of us are denied access to them. Every square inch on the planet has been assigned, as property, to some other fuck, or group of fucks. So we can't build a shelter in a nice spot, because someone will come and tell us we don't own the land, and we don't have any building materials anyway, because they're all under close guard too. We can't even lie down on the ground and go to sleep for the night, because someone will come and tell us to move. We can't eat, because all the edible things have been put in fenced-off areas and are guarded by people with guns.

The only way most of us can meet our needs, those of us who don't happen to belong to a family with money and property, is by paying for access to the resources which have been monopolised by people we've never met since before we were born. All the things we need are available, they all exist, there is no actual shortage... but there are people stopping us getting at them unless we make payment. And they're not the kind of people you can negotiate with, or ignore. They've got weapons and systems of detention and so on.

So under threat of violence, or imprisonment, we cannot access the things we need, unless we pay money. And the only safe way to get money is to sell our time, doing work for the same crowd of people who are stopping us getting at the things we need in the first place! It's a bit like a protection racket.

So these are the potent forces which make us conform. We have to act according to the values of capitalism, because capitalism decrees that unless we do so, we cannot live as adult human beings.

That's the main moulding factor I was alluding to, post-school. There are more though. When we enter the world of work, we avoid the stick of death and encounter the carrot of the wage. We usually find ourselves working in co-operative groups, because co-operative groups are the best way of achieving anything significant. When we first start out on a job, we're usually paid less than everyone else around us. All the people we spend time with every work day enjoy standards of living better than our own. They may have nice cars, or fancy gadgets. They might have bought their own home (actually they probably haven't, they're usually paying what amounts to rent, in the form of interest payments on a loan) and we can't afford these things. But we're told if we work hard and show improvement we might get paid better next year. In order to know whether we're working hard, we compare ourselves to our work colleagues. Maybe we know someone who has the sort of lifestyle we envy; so we aim to work at least as hard and as effectively as them. And of course the other workers are also thinking they would like to earn more, so it becomes a competition.

Competition is one of the defining features of capitalism. The workplace is a sort of small-scale image of the capitalist economy.

Fucking hell this post got a bit long! I'm stopping now, for everyone's sake!
Click to expand...

Holy shit knock. You're a fucking prophet!
One of the truest, most concise & thought-provoking posts I've read in a looong time!
Spot on man! %)
 
knock said:
I'm glad I've done something to please you, for a change. I was wearing my special "thinking brogues" while I wrote it, though.
Click to expand...

You should wear your thinking brogues alot more, it would make a change from your Pol Pot brogues you tend to wear alot while doing your Mod stuff on here.
 
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