Russell Brand: Addiction is an illness not a crime

[Shambles]

Why no, Knock. No I don't. And suspect you may well have hit upon one of them there issues that seperate the burnouts from the just plain burny.

Have always believed that isolation is the mother of addiction (and, more to the point, total fuckuppery). Those "primary causes" mentioned above can only really result from familystuff (or indeed lack thereof) of some description so all flows from there in my book.

Everything is easy with emotional support. Everything is neither easy nor likely without.

 

[knock]

Why no, Knock. No I don't. And suspect you may well have hit upon one of them there issues that seperate the burnouts from the just plain burny.

Have always believed that isolation is the mother of addiction (and, more to the point, total fuckuppery). Those "primary causes" mentioned above can only really result from familystuff (or indeed lack thereof) of some description so all flows from there in my book.

Everything is easy with emotional support. Everything is neither easy nor likely without.

What do we do then? We all need that support. The world as it's currently set up fails pitifully to provide it.

I'm going to PM you.

 

[Shambles]

Ye takes ya life in ya hands then, Knock

Actually, ya just take a very, very, very long wait on a reply in ya hands :D

(Not you, just not so great at PMs... 8))

Ya, we likely all need that support. Am a great advocate of such. Not all have it tho so can it truly work?

 

[knock]

No need to reply, just as long as you have the message!

 

[Shambles]

Message received... quite a long message so don't hold ya breath

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

What a load of shite. Out of all my close friends I am probably the only one who has any sort of drug addiction (& that is just a psychological dependency on weed, hardly a proper addiction), yet almost all of my close friends regularly take drugs. None of them are heading for addiction.

Charlie Clean & SHM are making the most sense in this thread by a fucking mile. Effie might be as well but a lot of it is a bit over my head really lol.

We are not talking be addicted to smoking weed or doing poor quality coke every weekend we are talking about addiction to hard drugs. I do not know 1 single person who has gone down gear/crack route whom has not ended up with an addiction to it. You may know 'chippers' but it's only a matter of time before they to have an addiction. 'None of them are heading for addiction' famous last words and very nieve and or stupid. What drugs are your friends taking anyway?

 

[charlie clean]

I know people of my age who've been occasional users for decades. Maybe they've a psychological dependency that obliges a hit every weekend or public holiday but that's as far as it goes. They're the same as weekend drinkers and, although drug use from marijuana to heroin declines with age, among a younger demographic they're probably as many in number as the habitual and addicted. Of course, one group fits the popular preconception and gets the publicity but this doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.

 

[parttime crackhead]

What drugs are your friends taking anyway?

Cocaine, MDMA, ketamine, weed, acid etc. None of them are on crack or smack, I can see that it could be totally different if they were. I was just meaning all drug users aren't heading for addiction.

I know people of my age who've been occasional users for decades. Maybe they've a psychological dependency that obliges a hit every weekend or public holiday but that's as far as it goes. They're the same as weekend drinkers and, although drug use from marijuana to heroin declines with age, among a younger demographic they're probably as many in number as the habitual and addicted. Of course, one group fits the popular preconception and gets the publicity but this doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.

Exactly.

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

Cocaine, MDMA, ketamine, weed, acid etc. None of them are on crack or smack, I can see that it could be totally different if they were. I was just meaning all drug users aren't heading for addiction.


And the article is about addiction not students on weekend binges so what you going on about?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I do not know 1 single person who has gone down gear/crack route whom has not ended up with an addiction to it.

I know three just from my small circle so where do you suggest we take your argument from here?

 

[Mailmonkey]

Me and my wife were talking something similar the other day...

She reckons, and I suppose it's true, that I'm addicted to "taking drugs"....I have my favourites, and obviously weed, coffee,nicotine, alcohol, all of those are daily use, and then there will be something else every day too, maybe vallies, maybe dmt, maybe meph, maybe oramorph, dhc, maybe a 2c, maybe some combo of any of those, .....pretty much every day though....

But i don't consider myself an addict cos I put real life first.

But I'd feel quite lost without me little helpers/entertainers.

 

[parttime crackhead]

And the article is about addiction not students on weekend binges so what you going on about?

Sorry, there's been at least a whole weekend in the middle of these comments so my memory isn't exactly fresh. What article???

I'm not a fucking student btw.

Edit - Actually I've just went back through the comments & it doesn't even matter what article you're on about. My comment was purely in reply to this from you.

Yeah but not everyone who eats sugar will get diabetes where as taking drugs you know you are heading for addiction.

I pointed out that that statement isn't true, because it isn't.

Look at it again.

taking drugs you know you are heading for addiction.

& tell me how "students on weekend binges" aren't taking drugs.

 

[badandwicked]

A lot of students on weekend binges end up with addiction problems

 

[parttime crackhead]

A lot of students on weekend binges end up with addiction problems

True.

But darkinthepark's statement reads as though everyone that takes drugs is (& knows they are) heading for addiction. Nonsense.

 

[Cornishman]

My mum enjoys a glass of wine or two at Christmas & I wouldn't class her as a drug addict by any means.

 

[GodSpeedK]

Don't you think that if they took away the option for the black market to control the drug supply, it would cripple the gangs? Surely they make the main bulk of their money from dealing. I guess the argument against that, would be that they'd move on to much more violent ways of acquiring coin (although there's no guarantee of that at all). But I do believe the gangster life would be a lot less alluring/easy to fall into for many. As well as a lot less profitable. Anyone can sling dope on the street, but it takes a very smart or lucky person to get away with bank robbery and other forms of crime that would be the obvious alternatives to selling drugs. So either they'd all end up in jail for committing far riskier crimes, or they just wouldn't bother with that way of life, when the drugs market belongs to large corporations and businesses.

Think about that, David Cameron. Maybe that would tackle knife and gun crime. Or at least help to some extent. The cartels, the drug dealers, they don't want drugs to be legalised. Our politicians our favouring these people (some are hardly human, they're mass-murdering monsters - just have to look to Mexico), essentially putting money into their organizations and letting them have the last laugh. It's preposterous.

I know it's political suicide until, hopefully, our generation is older...But It makes absolutely no sense to punish someone for indulging in a substance. All it does is perpetuate the problem of drug use, when somebody is sent down or convicted for drug offences. Limiting someone's employment options with a drug offence on their record is a completely stupid way of tackling the problem. Fuck, it's so frustrating to live in a society where people can be arrested for smoking a bit of weed. The current laws in place are riddled with hypocrisy (considering the laws on tobacco, alcohol and prescription meds) and do not improve our society in any way. It's fucking bullshit. Angers me so much.

 

[Shambles]

^ In related news, the answer to that most eminently sane and sensible argument is traditionally that when all drugs were legal addiction levels were insanely high. Which is probably true. Definitely true in some sections of society even (mainly the "upper" and "lower" sections by traditional wealth separation). Despite being all to familiar with what addiction can do to people, I honestly don't see how that is any worse than the current situation though. In fact it's clearly far, far better than the current situation. Addiction may not be exactly desirable as a lifestyle but it beats the shit outta addiction + criminalisation + desperation + alienation + etc, etc, etc. Legalise the lot and put the saved cash into medical and social support services = all round win.

 

[effie]

^ here here!

I just popped in to present something as evidence in support of my disease model for addiction (yes, I know I agreed we all agreed and it was just semantics but can't resist)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSm7BcQHWXk

Alcoholic monkeys. Same rate of problem drinking as we humans have, same rate of teetotal moneys too. Consuming substances to excess seems to be something that has been a trait of lifeforms for a little while. Unless monkey society has similar pressures to our own, giving exactly the same pattern of consumption as our own.

Not denying there are a lot of underlying causes, triggers and exacerbating/perpetuating social and psychological factors, but there is also something very biological about addiction I think.

Also, this article is written by a guy who thinks addiction is not a disease, but it neatly covers a few of the points I made earlier

Okay, going to bed now.

 

[Shambles]

Hehe. I actually mentioned that thing about monkeys having the same rate of alcholism (and "social drinking" and indeed teetotalism) as us less furry monkeys to me drug support worker. She was rather excited about it actually and I can't argue it does have more than a hint of "deeper, underlying, probably genetic" kinda stuff to it. Then again... monkeys have a very rigid social structure and - in their own monkeyish way - many similar issues to us peoplefolk. Sort of. Ish. More so than slugs and stuff anyway. Which brings it back to the question of whether addiction is truly a disease in and of itself or a... condition that results from social and/or mental issues that likely has some sorta genetic component to it to some as yet unknown degree. Does in my argumentative book anyway :D

 

[knock]

Great video effie! I have to say, I don't see why a biological cause, as opposed to an environmental cause, demands the name "disease"; Spade has ginger hair but we don't call that a disease, it's just a feature of Spade, albeit an unfortunate one

We don't tend to talk of mental "disease" but I think it's pretty much a synonym for "illness". Is depression a disease? Where a person has a genetic basis for their depression, i.e. perhaps a deficiency in the parts of their brain responsible for producing serotonin, it seems fairly clear cut. But if a person has suffered a series of negative life events outside their control, which are just too much for them to handle, are they ill? Or merely lacking in skills? Should they receive treatment, or training? Or does the problem perhaps lie with the environment rather than the person?

To answer these questions I think you have to bring in judgements and preferences which are really quite unrelated to the state of the sufferer but rather related to politics, availability of resources and so on.