Romany & gypsy are we tolerant in Europe ?

[Sammy G]

Yes but they are still providing a product and a service to their customer, the victim of a theft doesn't get anything, it's only taking. With dealing there is still a transaction, the fact the customer sometimes has to engage in questionable activities to finance the purchase doesn't really matter. The dealer is offering something to the community, the burglar, thief, scammer or robber is not.

Surely you can't just overlook any questionable fundraising activities by the customer, especially as those activities are likely to have a direct impact on the community in question?

That's to say nothing of the myriad other ways in which drug use can affect community cohesion and indivdual productivity.

Like when I was going to move over to be with Jamie, I learned the language & was willing to do any job that came along, there was no way I was going to move over there & live off her or their benefit system.

But (and this isn't meant as an insult) seemingly you're perfectly happy to live off benefits and stay long-term unemployed over here?

 

[Mental Kenny]

I'm perfectly aware drug dealing can have a negative impact on local communities, one of the reasons I support the full legalization of drugs as it would solve the problem by transfering commerce into the high street in shops instead of dark alleys, as mass evictions like they're doing in France do for the problems inflicted by the Roma enclaves.

 

[Marmalade]

Yes & I am not joking.
When I watch Jeremy Kyle alot of the people on there in my view are no good & if I had my way I would have them sent off to some Island where they can be kept away from the rest of the planet.

Like when I was going to move over to be with Jamie, I learned the language & was willing to do any job that came along, there was no way I was going to move over there & live off her or their benefit system.
.

Why was it you were sanctioned for the 2nd time recently? Was it over refusing to apply for a job? You mentioned it was something about a particular job but didn't elaborate.

Just curious

 

[Sammy G]

I'm perfectly aware drug dealing can have a negative impact on local communities, one of the reasons I support the full legalization of drugs as it would solve the problem by transfering commerce into the high street in shops instead of dark alleys, as mass evictions like they're doing in France do for the problems inflicted by the Roma enclaves.

In the meantime, drug dealers are essentially parasitic criminals whether they provide a service or not.

 

[Mental Kenny]

In the meantime, drug dealers are essentially parasitic criminals whether they provide a service or not.

The thread was about gypsies though, anyway the fact they sell something, puts them in the same category as the guy at the offlicence who sells you beer, it's not parasitical, it's trade

 

[Bodda]

But (and this isn't meant as an insult) seemingly you're perfectly happy to live off benefits and stay long-term unemployed over here?

I know it aint meant as an insult Sammy G, we re in a debate here, it's all cool with me

Yes I am on JSA at the moment & have been for a while but I have worked alot more of my life than I have been signing on, I only am sigining on now because the job I last had ended when I got set up for a crime I didn't do.
I can't go into detail on a open board but the long & short of it was I lost my job by the police going to my flat & finding my foil & pipe then telling the work place.
I have worked in Security before doing 70 hour weeks, I have done removal all over the UK & sometimes doing a 16 hour day & then starting back again at 7am.
Yes I haven't worked for a small time now but that is due to the area I am in, the west mids & the part I am in has one of the most high figures for people out of work, for example the new Tesco that opened which I tried for had 5,000 people apply for 300 jobs.

I have worked alot more than I have ever been on JSA, I am far from work shy & would take a job tomorrow if I could get one, I apply for at least 8 jobs a week because that is part of my JSA contract.

I have worked over in the USA too for 3 months & would have stayed in Boston but got caught with LSD, I am far from work shy or a Jeremy Kyle guest as alot of people on here think I am.

Why was it you were sanctioned for the 2nd time recently? Was it over refusing to apply for a job? You mentioned it was something about a particular job but didn't elaborate.

Just curious

Yes it is my 2nd sanction, you are correct there.
It was anything but refusing a job Marmz, on the new job centre thing it is on the PC now & I didn't notice a job my advisor had stuck on there as I am not 100% sure on how the system works, it was a simple case of not reading the screen right & I got mixed up between the jobs I had put in for & a job my advisor had stuck on there.

The computer showed I hadn't applied for the job that the job centre had added for me & they said I had ignored it when I didn't even know how to 100% use the new system.

 

[Sammy G]

The thread was about gypsies though, anyway the fact they sell something, puts them in the same category as the guy at the offlicence who sells you beer, it's not parasitical, it's trade

The guy who runs the off licence pays a significant amount of tax on his income though. There's a difference.

Yes I haven't worked for a small time now but that is due to the area I am in

You're in one of the most densely-populated regions of Britain. Admittedly you may be in a deprived part of that region, but you're commuting distance away from thousands of jobs. Would you readily accept the same explanation from a foreign national who came over here in search of work, I wonder?

Yes it is my 2nd sanction, you are correct there.
It was anything but refusing a job Marmz, on the new job centre thing it is on the PC now & I didn't notice a job my advisor had stuck on there as I am not 100% sure on how the system works, it was a simple case of not reading the screen right & I got mixed up between the jobs I had put in for & a job my advisor had stuck on there.

The computer showed I hadn't applied for the job that the job centre had added for me & they said I had ignored it when I didn't even know how to 100% use the new system.

Were you not conscious of the fact you needed to get your shit together or risk further sanctions?

Saying that you didn't know how the system works is effectively akin to saying you don't give a shit. At least in the eyes of the Jobcentre staff. You know?

 

[Mental Kenny]

The guy who runs the off licence pays a significant amount of tax on his income though. There's a difference.

For all we know he might be pulling an Amazon and evading. Anyway we're way off topic, the thread was about gypsies not about all the other eventual parastical castes that might be found in nature. I'm sure we have polar opposite views on the issue so really impossible to find a common ground, let's leave it that.

 

[Sammy G]

For all we know he might be pulling an Amazon and evading.

Knowing our local shop, he most definitely is.

 

[Marmalade]

Yes it is my 2nd sanction, you are correct there.
It was anything but refusing a job Marmz, on the new job centre thing it is on the PC now & I didn't notice a job my advisor had stuck on there as I am not 100% sure on how the system works, it was a simple case of not reading the screen right & I got mixed up between the jobs I had put in for & a job my advisor had stuck on there.

The computer showed I hadn't applied for the job that the job centre had added for me & they said I had ignored it when I didn't even know how to 100% use the new system.

I'm not sure who actually helps with appeals, but Maxalfie will probably know because he reads the forums associated with the whole universal job match deal. Was it a job they pointed out to you on the screen when you signed on, or one they said you should apply for via you logging into your universal jobmatch account? Because they change the rules every fucking week, so it is really confusing.

If you need help with it, ask about it here, because they'll give you sound advice

http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/index


[edit]
particularly these sections:

http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/benefit

http://unemploymentmovement.com/for...-reconsideration-outcome--favourably-approved

also read this about Brum, its ridiculous

http://unemploymentmovement.com/for...ous-benefit-sanctions-people-have-experienced

 

[Bodda]

You're in one of the most densely-populated regions of Britain. Admittedly you may be in a deprived part of that region, but you're commuting distance away from thousands of jobs. Would you readily accept the same explanation from a foreign national who came over here in search of work, I wonder?

When I was going to go live with Jamie I was looking at Bergen, if I was coming into the UK from a foreign country I would plan to arrive in an area which had a good chance of getting work.
There would have been no point in me looking at some backwater town in the back water town of Norway as the chance of getting work would be slim to none, in my view they should plan to look into the area they want to move into & see what the work rates etc are first.

Were you not conscious of the fact you needed to get your shit together or risk further sanctions?

Saying that you didn't know how the system works is effectively akin to saying you don't give a shit. At least in the eyes of the Jobcentre staff. You know?

Of course I was aware I needed to get my shit together, hence why I apply for jobs every day, even ones I would hate to do, but I would do them given the chance. I have put in for a bin man with the council for god sake.

lol @ "Saying that you didn't know how the system works is effectively akin to saying you don't give a shit. At least in the eyes of the Jobcentre staff"

Sadly I have to agree as that is the look the woman gave me when I said it, I wish I could show you what the new job search thing looked like & show you how it works & them maybe you would understand how you could get mixed up with it.

 

[Bodda]

I'm not sure who actually helps with appeals, but Maxalfie will probably know because he reads the forums associated with the whole universal job match deal. Was it a job they pointed out to you on the screen when you signed on, or one they said you should apply for via you logging into your universal jobmatch account? Because they change the rules every fucking week, so it is really confusing.

If you need help with it, ask about it here, because they'll give you sound advice

http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/index

Thanks I am onto it now (link btw)

They added it at some point during the week to my account & I missed it, simple as that.
I try to do everything to keep my JSA, I mean I am cut till January 26th next year, that will be no joke for me.

 

[Sammy G]

When I was going to go live with Jamie I was looking at Bergen, if I was coming into the UK from a foreign country I would plan to arrive in an area which had a good chance of getting work.
There would have been no point in me looking at some backwater town in the back water town of Norway as the chance of getting work would be slim to none, in my view they should plan to look into the area they want to move into & see what the work rates etc are first.

I was trying to demonstrate the fact that to many people's minds the explanation you offered wouldn't be satisfactory. Anybody who's ever had to endure a two-hour commute to work just to (barely) make ends meet will tell you that. Surely there's work elsewhere in the West Midlands?

Sadly I have to agree as that is the look the woman gave me when I said it, I wish I could show you what the new job search thing looked like & show you how it works & them maybe you would understand how you could get mixed up with it.

I really don't doubt you on any of that, and I expect the Jobcentre staff were pretty clueless themselves.

That said, anybody who's played the benefits system (me being one of those people) knows that you need to become intimate with its workings, including any changes that may occur. If you're not making damn sure that you fulfill the minimum requirements then there's always going to be trouble.

 

[Marmalade]

Thanks I am onto it now (link btw)

They added it at some point during the week to my account & I missed it, simple as that.
I try to do everything to keep my JSA, I mean I am cut till January 26th next year, that will be no joke for me.

see the updated links. there are others on that forum with exactly the same issue as you.

 

[Marmalade]

The guy who runs the off licence pays a significant amount of tax on his income though. There's a difference.



You're in one of the most densely-populated regions of Britain. Admittedly you may be in a deprived part of that region, but you're commuting distance away from thousands of jobs. Would you readily accept the same explanation from a foreign national who came over here in search of work, I wonder?



Were you not conscious of the fact you needed to get your shit together or risk further sanctions?

Saying that you didn't know how the system works is effectively akin to saying you don't give a shit. At least in the eyes of the Jobcentre staff. You know?

Sam, you need to do more research before you come out with this kinda stuff. Really. Just ask Maxalfie. It's VERY easy to be tricked into being sanctioned. And it often is GENUINE trickery. The rules change so many times, often monthly, it's ridiculous

[edit]
and it's specifically often ambiguous too

 

[Sammy G]

Sam, you need to do more research before you come out with this kinda stuff. Really. Just ask Maxalfie. It's VERY easy to be tricked into being sanctioned. And it often is GENUINE trickery. The rules change so many times, often monthly, it's ridiculous

I've already said I'm not familiar with the workings of this system, and I've also admitted that the Jobcentre staff probably weren't the most helpful in the world. As for deliberate trickery etc. I'll leave it for others to speculate.

I only know that I'd endeavour to make double-sure I was fulfilling the minimum requirements, especially in the current climate.

Anyway, I think we're veering further and further off topic.

 

[spacejunk]

As an Australian I can say that a lot of Brits stole this (and many other fine lands) in colonial times of yore.
Who has rights to land? I'm not saying the British/English have any less claim to their homeland that anyone else, but if you're going to say some of the bigoted crap getting tossed around in here, you might wanna reflect of the fucking mess the British Empire has hand a large hand in creating; there is plenty of bad blood about the coming of the white man over here, and wars are still being fought over various complications of the various European/western land grabs that took place across the globe for hundreds of years.

Still, it goes on; just in a highly propaganda-spun way. Liberation or whatever the fuck the USA and her "allies" want to twist it into.
Lotta innocent blood has been spilt by british forces over the years. bit of genocide here and there.

let us not forget the nazi treatment of Roma people. The Jews haven't let the world forget - but there has got to be some kind of ethical line drawn in the sand. Why do people think "the holocaust" was a strictly Jewish phenomenon.
A good rule of thumb in looking at a society is how compassionately (or not) it treats its vulnerable, its marginalised communities.

You know what inflates crime figures? The presence of police!
Cut down on the fuzz and your crime rates drop like magic. Kind of counter-intuitive to some folk.
But no one is innocent.

 

[Sammy G]

A good rule of thumb in looking at a society is how compassionately (or not) it treats its vulnerable, its marginalised communities.

Indeed.

Though it doesn't look good for the UK when you've got people making assertions like this, seemingly without any foundation:

I can't see the Roma people bringing much use to the UK.

If we can return to the above, Bodda, why do you believe this?

 

[Mental Kenny]

The huge difference though is that white immigrants flourished within generations, through hard work they created modern, industrialized societies both in Australia and North America. Gypsies only contribution to the lands they infest is crime

 

[Sammy G]

In North America, most of the 'hard work' was done by black slaves. In Australia most of it was done by exiled convicts.

Whether the creation of a modernised industrial society is an admirable thing in itself (I don't necessarily agree) is a matter for another thread, though the word 'infest' is to my mind far more applicable to the actions of imperialist invaders than it is to the tiny minorities of gypsies in any given EU member state.