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Roadside Drug Testing (VIC)

^Yeah 6months cool, $1300 1st time offecne! Bit different from $440! plus there's no differentiation between fines. How is driving speeding off your nut and on pills just as dangerous than driving after smoking a cone or sharing a joint?
That is the most fucked thing i have ever read on this site
Dude, my comment was just an expression of frustration, nothing more.. I don't reccomend anyone driving on acid, I just hate stringent laws that have had little reasearch into them, I retract my overzelous remark. :|

Also, there have been studies done that show that driving under the influence of mdma does not nessasarily effect the your ability to drive, see here http://www.mdma.net/driving/index.html, obviously though driving after a hard night on everything is a different story.
 
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Police roadside agony awaits the ecstasy driver

Police roadside agony awaits the ecstasy driver
Email Print Normal font Large font Vanessa Burrow
August 30, 2006


DRINK and drive, you're a bloody idiot. Take ecstasy and drive and you face a possible six-month driving ban and a $1289 maximum fine.

That was the message from Police Minister Tim Holding yesterday as he announced world-first anti-drug laws designed to improve road safety.

But Australian researchers are yet to study the effects of ecstasy use on driver behaviour.

Swinburne University's Katherine Papafotiou, head of the Drugs and Driving Research Unit, said $100,000 to $400,000 was needed for such tests.

"There's limited research on the topic," she said. "In terms of research that we have done here, we have concentrated on cannabis and methamphetamine (speed). We are hoping to continue our research and expand it to include ecstasy."

The National Drug Law Enforcement Research Fund and the Australian Research Council are yet to fund any Australian research on ecstasy and driving.

One study conducted in the Netherlands found ecstasy may actually improve basic car control. But ecstasy-affected drivers were more likely to take risks and had slower response times.

Another study found when the stimulant was combined with other drugs, such as cannabis or speed, driver behaviour became "extremely dangerous".

Michael Lenne, of Monash University's Accident Research Centre, said driving was a complex task that required a "sound state of mind".

In random drug testing trials run from December 2004 until last week, police found that one in 49 drivers tested positive to cannabis or speed.

More than half of the confirmed 436 drug drivers had a combination of drugs in their system, including ecstasy.

Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby said that from Friday police would begin charging drivers who tested positive to ecstasy use.

"There's no doubt that ecstasy is one of the core drugs that causes problems on our roads," he said.

"Higher than 30 per cent of all motorists that have died on our roads have had the presence of drugs in their system."

A mouth-swab drug test, akin to a litmus paper test, takes five to seven minutes. If drivers return a positive result, they will be retested using the German-made Cozart machine and another saliva sample, delaying them about 10 minutes more.

The Government has allocated $14.1 million for the drug-driving crackdown. Police used one drug bus in the trial and will soon receive a second new $750,000 drug bus. The seven existing booze buses will be refitted, and probably renamed, to reflect their new use.

Mr Ashby said Victoria's world-first drug-testing regime was attracting interest from Europe, North America and Britain.

He said he had confidence in the accuracy of roadside drug tests. "The testing regime we have is fail-safe," he said.
From the age, Here's the link: http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...-ecstasy-driver/2006/08/29/1156816899953.html
Maybe there is some validity into why these laws piss me off so much, don't just take the word of the government scare campagins..
 
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Rated E said:
How long does MDMA stay in your saliva?

EDIT: Don't worry looked it up, apparantly its detectable in the saliva 1.5 hours after administration and up to 10 hours after administration. Found Here:
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/48/1/174

Wrong dude, you didnt read it all. Either did I, but I managed to find out this...

The drugswipe when using the correct amount of saliva.... the test was still showing positives in 5 out of the 8 participants in the test AT the 10 hour mark! and was giving negatives from all 8 participants after 24 hours of ingesting the 100mg MDMA capsules.

They didnt do any test between the 10 hour mark and 24 hour mark and no tests between 0 time (predose) and 1.5 hours.

So we don't know when exactly roughly the ecstasy will start showing positives after administration. We know for sure at 1.5 hours, thats all.

And what that page is telling me is that it's still in our saliva between 10 hours and 24 hours.

This page is talking about a specific device though, is this the same device our VIC police are using? Else that link and what I just wrote, might not be a good guide.

Also....

I was thinking...

Your enemys.

Say someone hates you and wants to fuck up your life somehow, they slip a quarter (maybe not even a quarter) of a ecstasy pill in your alcoholic beverage, You won't feel the effects of the pill but it's in your system.

You had 1 or 2 drinks at a club. You drive home from the club, you get pulled over. Cops test ya and your fucked!

$1,300 fine for first offense is too high and a 6 month driving ban!, Too much, specially if you've been a victim of an arsehole.

Is there any sort of leeway?

It's so easy to fuck up people's lives these days.
 
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IWillHostIt said:
I was thinking...

Your enemys.

Say someone hates you and wants to fuck up your life somehow, they slip a quarter (maybe not even a quarter) of a ecstasy pill in your alcoholic beverage, You won't feel the effects of the pill but it's in your system.

You had 1 or 2 drinks at a club. You drive home from the club, you get pulled over. Cops test ya and your fucked!

With the level of paranoia you're showing, I'd lay of the drugs for a while!!!!! ;) ;) =D
 
The Government has allocated $14.1 million for the drug-driving crackdown. Police used one drug bus in the trial and will soon receive a second new $750,000 drug bus. The seven existing booze buses will be refitted, and probably renamed, to reflect their new use.

I wonder if they will be all be renamed drug buses or "booze and drug buses". 8)

The Age article is interesting because it notes the lack of any useful Australian research into the effects of driving under the influence of ecstasy.

So either the laws are based on the fact that ecstasy is an illegal drug, or that other drugs cause impairment; therefore so must ecstasy. You'd hope that they would at least invest the time and money to do some research before imposing these sentences on individuals who are busted for drug driving.

I guess fairness and evidence though aren't necessary when dealing with drug users.

IWillHostIt said:
This page is talking about a specific device though, is this the same device our VIC police are using? Else that link and what I just wrote, might not be a good guide.

Yes, that's the same device used in Vic; the Securetec Drugwipe.
 
hoptis
The Age article is interesting because it notes the lack of any useful Australian research into the effects of driving under the influence of ecstasy
Check my link this is some of the only reasearch that has been commisioned for mdma effects on driving, of course its from the Netherlands. I'm sure there is some more detail out there though. However I seriously doubt they took any of this into consideration or even read the findings for that matter!

Hoptis
You'd hope that they would at least invest the time and money to do some research before imposing these sentences on individuals who are busted for drug driving.
I guess fairness and evidence though aren't necessary when dealing with drug users.
Yeah that's my point, as long as they appear tough on drugs there's no way the voting public won't vote Labour back in this voting year. The title "1st in the world roadside drug tests" makes govenment mp's cream! It's the seperation of drug penalties which is disturbing..
How can you just lump all illegal drugs into one catorgory which face identical fines and license suspensions!? :X Obviously different drugs have different effects, so how do these penalties correspond to that 8)
 
ilikeacid said:
How can you just lump all illegal drugs into one catorgory

Because they're illegal, so they can do whatever they like! IMHO they've found a very smart way of catching drug users, and at the same time are seen to be doing the right thing. Not only are you getting punished for driving impared, but you're gettting punished for being an illegal drug user.
 
Fukn!8)

The penalties are whats fucked.. What warrants that?! they dont have enuf proof to justify it. How long have drug test been going in victoria? a year?!

I have one question tho, how long after taking drugs can u get done?

The thing with drugs that makes this unfair is that they wear off, you would be fine to drive but you can still get done.

I agree u shouldnt drive under the influence, ive fucked up with that before but if ur fine, youv slept, theyv worn off, then getting a fine like that is fucked!
 
Effects of MDMA (ecstasy), and multiple drugs use on (simulated) driving performance and traffic safety
Department of Psychology, University of Groningen, Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2004 Jan 9
Results
Three subjects decided to withdraw from the experiment half-way through. In total, 20 participants in the experimental group, 15 male and five female, completed all drug and non-drug conditions; their average age was 27 years (SD 4.5) and average mileage 17,000 km/year (SD 14,000). On average, they had used MDMA 26 times (SD 27, range 2–100) for a total of 40 tablets (SD 45, range 2–150). Sixty percent had driven a car at least once while under the influence of MDMA, on average 8 times (SD 14, range 0–50). Most participants from the experimental group had ample experience with other drugs, and combining MDMA with these drugs. Results on self-experienced psychological and physiological questionnaires were comparable with the study of Davison and Parrott (1997). Physiological effects such as high heart rate, unsteadiness and headache were also occasionally reported, as were increased heart rate, hyperthermia, dilated pupils, a dry mouth, increased sweating, and tingling skin. Subjectively experienced effects were increased perception of sound, touch, and colour, especially after multi-drug use. Common effects such as being more talkative after MDMA were also confirmed. In the control group, 13 non-drug-users completed the non-drug test rides; average age 24 years (SD 5.5), average mileage 14,000 km/year (SD 4000).
MDMA dosage and other drugs used.
The average consumed dosage MDMA was 59 mg (SD 22, range 25–98 mg MDMA). This is a relatively low dose; the normal average dose is 120 mg (Logan and Couper 2001). After the first MDMA ride, the majority
(70% ) took more MDMA before the multi-drug ride. All participants additionally took other drugs in that time span, marihuana (80% ) and alcohol (90% ) most commonly. In Table 1 all substances used by the participants are listed. In the experimental group breath analysis showed a blood alcohol concentration of 0.00‰ for all participants in the non-drug and MDMA condition. In the multi-drug condition, the average BAC was 0.39‰ (SD 0.39, range 0.00–1.09). In the control group, with the exception of one subject in whom breath analysis indicated 0.11‰, the measured BAC was always zero.
Performance measures
The standard deviation of lateral position (swerving) increased significantly [F(1,18 )=5.5, P=0.031] with 0.03 m in the multi-drug condition compared to the non-drug condition, both in the built-up area and on the motorway. From non-drug to MDMA to multi-drug, an increase in average speed was found in the built-up area of, respectively, 2.5 and 7.1 km/h. Standard deviation of the driving speed during the test rides also significantly increased from non-drug to MDMA to multi-drug [F(1,19)=4.8, P=0.040 and F( 1,19 )=8.83, P=0.008]. Control and experimental groups did not differ in the non-drug conditions [F(1,31 )=1.95, NS]. The gap acceptance test in the multi-drug condition showed significantly smaller accepted gaps than in the non-drug condition [F(1,18 )=4.75, P=0.043]. Although the average time-headway to the car in front was smaller in the multi-drug condition compared with the non-drug condition, this effect was not significant. Differences between control group and experimental group were not significant either, whereas average time headway was smaller in the control group, as was variance in headway. On the busy part of the motorway, cars ahead stopped to a standstill twice. In both conditions, movement time and reaction time were determined. No effects on the averages of parameters were found: 0.76 s and 1.64 s, respectively. However, standard deviation in RT between participants increased from 0.35 (non-drug condition) to 0.52 (MDMA condition) to 0.88 (multi-drug condition). On average, the standard deviation in RT for the control group was 0.39. The ultimate indicator of driving safely is the absence of crashes. Although crashes are relatively rare in real traffic, in the simulator on the motorway section where lead cars suddenly braked, sometimes accidents happened. None of the control group participants had ever had a crash. During two of the 20 non-drug rides with the experimental group crashes occurred; while under the influence of MDMA, the simulator car collided with another car (100% increase) 4 times. Under the influence of multiple drugs, participants crashed 5 times
Physiological measures
The pattern of average heart rate in beats per minute is remarkably similar in all conditions for different sections (city driving, gap acceptance, car-following, the trafficlight scenario, driving on the motorway and a rest, see Fig. 1). After drug use, heart rate was significantly increased, after multiple drugs on average up to 18 beats per minute. Heart rate was also higher at the points where a decision had to be taken, in particular at the two gap acceptance tasks. Data for heart rate variability in the 0.10 Hz frequency band (Fig. 2) were normalised (Van Roon 1998 ), reflecting mental effort (Mulder 1992). This was clearly the case at the first gap acceptance test, where energy was suppressed (indicative of increased mental effort). The second gap acceptance test showed less consistent results; however, during rest, energy increased again. The reduced variability in the multi-drug condition may suggest either increased effort or a ceiling effect, heart rate in this condition being extremely high.
Self-report measures
Self-reported effort increased on a scale from 0 to 150 from 40.2 in the non-drug condition to 47.6 in the MDMA condition to 50.7 in the multi-drug condition [drug versus non-drug is significant; F(1,29)=5.02, P=0.037]. The control group indicated an average of 49.1 [F(1,31 )=1.83, NS]. On the driving quality scale, ranging from +100 (extremely well) to –100 (extremely badly), the control group on average rated normal driving (0.2). The experimental group in the non-drug condition indicated driving as better than normal (+16.5), under the influence of MDMA about normal (+3.8 ), and under the influence of multiple drugs lower than normal (–4.6). The difference between non-drug state and the two drugs conditions is significant [F(1,19)=5.13, P=0.035].
Urine analyses
Urine analyses were performed to confirm the selfreported drug use (Table 1) and detect non-reported psychoactive substances. In general, screening results of urine samples in the multi-drug condition matched the reported drug intake rather well: the presence of LSD, psilocybin, cocaine and amphetamine in addition to MDMA was confirmed. In the multiple-drug condition, three participants provided a urine sample positive for MDEA in addition to MDMA. In three other participants, in both drug conditions, urine analysis revealed the presence of amphetamine or MDEA instead of MDMA. Two participants had a positive MDMA result in urine in the non-drug condition. One had reported the use of MDMA on the day before, the other did not report the use of MDMA in the week before the test ride. One subject was positive for amphetamine. Cannabis was reported in 30% of participants in both the drug and non-drug conditions. Urine analysis revealed cannabis use in 60% of cases, but since marihuana can be detected in urine for several weeks in regular users, this was not proof of recent use. Two participants who admitted intake of cocaine before the multiple-drug test ride, were also positive for cocaine before the MDMA test ride; one even showed a positive result in the non-drug condition. For the participants in the control group, all screens were negative.
Discussion
The main conclusion must be that from a health point of view, using MDMA is not recommended, for many reasons. Most striking of all was the number of crashes in the multiple drugs session (25% of all rides) and in the MDMA session (20% ), at night and early in the morning. However, the experimental drug group had crashes in the non-drug control rides as well (10% ). The control group had no crashes. This finding strongly suggests that the group of MDMA users differs from the control group in more ways than just drug use. In a birth cohort study of 907 young New Zealanders (Horwood and Fergusson 2000; Fergusson and Horwood 2001), the relationships between cannabis use and alcohol use were established with traffic accident rates. Most of the elevated risks among subgroups of the population under investigation were found not to be due to cannabis use per se, and only partly to drink driving in itself. As a subgroup, the cannabis users in the study of Fergusson and Horwood (2001 ) were prone to engage in drink driving and other risky/illegal driving practices, associated with attitudes encouraging driving violations. They suggest that these driving behaviours are frequently part of more general tendencies towards risky and unsafe driving, among which is ill-judged decision making on the road (Horwood and Fergusson 2000). The present study strongly supports their findings, from a different methodological
angle. The present study has some limitations. Firstly, the study was carried out in a driving simulator, for ethical reasons a necessary restriction, but for validity reasons constraining the ecological power. However, we are convinced that this necessary “choice” has been successfully defended in the past (De Waard et al. 1999b). Secondly, a quasi-experimental design could not be avoided, which brought along diminished experimental control, albeit with a gain in realism. The relevance of the findings in terms of the type of effects is a natural given for science, but also has practical consequences for policy makers. Any investment in regulating drug (and drink) driving among young people should be accompanied by similar investments in reducing unsafe driving in all other aspects.
This is the reasearch that has been done that, most likely the government picked and chose when thinking up new laws. Sorry for no link, I got it off my uni web data base and it wouldn't have worked. also, its missing a few tables and all references, other than that its the full monty :) Pretty extensive read but there's some interesting points.... kinda sinks my argument thogh 8)
 
First drug testing blitz yields results
Paul Anderson and Grant McArthur
September 11, 2006 12:00am

SEVERAL drivers have tested positive to ecstasy since police began testing for the drug 10 days ago.

As revealed in the Herald Sun last month, police can now test motorists for cannabis, methamphetamines and ecstasy.

Assistant Commissioner (traffic) Noel Ashby yesterday said police were waiting on a number of laboratory tests.

"We have had a number of positive tests for the three drugs we are testing for," he said.

Confirmation of the results might be another week away, but Mr Ashby said the community had already embraced the new testing procedures.

"The support we have received from the public has been really positive," he said. "The vast majority of Victorians don't want drug drivers on our roads."

The scientific testing occurs at the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine in Southbank.

VIFM helped implement the world-first testing regimen and, through chromatography and spectrometry, toxicologists confirm most of the positive preliminary saliva samples collected by police.

Toxicology manager Dimitri Gerostamoulos said: "99.6 per cent of all drivers who tested positive at the roadside . . . have been confirmed by the lab.

"I'm satisfied the program is working. It's there as a deterrent to say to people you will be caught using these drugs and then driving."

VIFM says about 30 per cent of drivers killed have some type of psychoactive drug in their system.

"There is evidence people are increasing their drug use and it's showing in the coronial population who have died in car accidents," Dr Gerostamoulos said. "It concerns me because I use the roads like everyone else."

Dr Gerostamoulos said a dearth in opiate-based drugs such as heroin had partly led to a rise in drug-driving for cannabis and methamphetamines.

"There have been less opiates around for the past three years now, so people have been looking at using other illicit drugs," he said.

"It's no secret designer drugs are on the increase, not only in Victoria but around the country."

Dr Gerostamoulos said he hoped the drug testing, based partly on VIFM road deaths research, would avert further carnage.

"That's our primary function -- finding out what we can learn from death and using that knowledge in a positive way," he said.

From Herald Sun
 
What hard facts do we actually know about the drug buses and testing?

I don't advocate driving under the influence and I don't plan to in future but I also think it's crap if I've had a big weekend and test positive a few days later.

Everyone metabolises drug differently so I don't think any expert would give you a time base of when it is safe to drive/test negative after use.

I'm planning on having a big weekend this week and want to feel comfortable that I can drive home on Sunday night and drive to work on Monday. I would assume that per the test I would probably still test positive.

I am in Victoria.

So the questions I pose are as follows:

- Does Victoria still only have the 1 drug bus in use?
- Are all booze buses equipped with the drug testing equipment now?
- Is there an up to date/minute website/post that gives the location of the drug bus ?
- Is it illegal to report where booze/drug buses are?
- Have many Victorians have seen the drug bus on Monday mornings and in which locations?
- Are the drug buses usually positioned in the same locations as booze buses?

Personally I have only seen the bus three times. On a Friday night heading out of the city, Saturday morning heading out of the city and Sunday morning heading out of the city. The latter 2 were in the same place.

Thanks in advance to any of you that can answer my questions.
 
Hi and welcome to Bluelight. If you do a search you'd find most of your questions are already answered.

dls said:
- Does Victoria still only have the 1 drug bus in use?

Yes, currently officially only one.

dls said:
- Are all booze buses equipped with the drug testing equipment now?

This is in the process of happening

dls said:
- Is there an up to date/minute website/post that gives the location of the drug bus ?

No

dls said:
- Is it illegal to report where booze/drug buses are?

No, but if you did it on a widespread basis I'm sure Victoria Police would have something to say about it.

Also have a look at these threads for more info.

Drug Bus - Currently In Operation
Roadside Drug Testing....
 
Hi,

Thanks for your response. I am a long time reader, first time poster and I have read all the posts regarding drug testing etc.

I am more so asking what proof do we have of this besides media reports? Did they police ever release an official brief re: the drug bus? Or is everything we know from newspaper articles? It's just I was caught up in a media storm about 7 years ago and since then I take everything the media says with a massive grain of salt. I don't want to base my facts on something that was featured on news.com.au!!!
 
Its probably worth an email or call to the Police asking for a statement or information on the matter. You never know they might just answer all your questions.
 
Fry-d- said:
Its probably worth an email or call to the Police asking for a statement or information on the matter. You never know they might just answer all your questions.

In normal circumstances I would but I need to remain anonymous because of some legal matters (if you get my drift)...

I will have a look at the police website. You never know, it could be helpful.
 
An article I found here: http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=8325. Nothing we don't already know though. Is there a government website that has the legislation freely available on it?

Police ecstasy testing a world first
Fri 1 September 2006

Michelle Alexander
Proactive Media

Victoria Police will begin testing and charging motorists for use of MDMA, commonly known as ecstasy, from Friday 1 September 2006.

Assistant Commissioner (Traffic) Noel Ashby said police were giving drivers advanced warning about the new legislation.

“Police currently test drivers for cannabis and methamphetamine and from Friday, we will begin randomly testing for ecstasy,” he said.

Mr Ashby said samples provided to laboratories were already currently assessed for MDMA presence for research purposes.

“Our statistics indicate that half of the drivers found to be under the influence of methamphetamine are also positive to MDMA.

“This tells police that people really don’t know what they’re putting into their bodies. Many of these drivers thought they were only taking one substance and this process has proven that they’re under the influence of both.

“Driving under the influence of any illicit drug is extremely dangerous, but a combination of illicit drugs is a death trap situation and these drivers will now be tested and prosecuted for all three substances.

“We are extremely pleased with this legislation.”

Police began testing drivers for amphetamine and cannabis use on 13 December 2004 and results to 22 August 2006 are as follows:

Drivers tested:
Car drivers: 14,814
Heavy vehicle drivers: 6,356
Total drivers: 21,170

Confirmed drug drivers:
Car drivers: 339
Heavy vehicle drivers: 97
Total drivers: 436

Negative driver ratio:
Car drivers: 1:44
Heavy vehicle drivers: 1:66
Overall ratio: 1:49

Laboratory results:
Positive to methamphetamine only: 300
Positive to tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) only: 34
Positive to both: 102
Total: 436
(Results still pending: 14)
Positive to MDMA only
– results for research purposes only 43


Recidivist Offenders:
Car drivers: 3
Heavy vehicle drivers: 2
Total: 5


Refusal Offences:
Car drivers: 13
Heavy vehicle drivers: 3
Total refusals: 16
 
Check the Arrive Alive site, that has most of Victoria Police's official statements on the drug bus.

The police have made releases regarding the drug bus and have generally kept the public up to date as to new developments, the Police Minister also makes a few official statements now and again too.

I agree though that the official story from police and the media doesn't always accurately represent what is happening. I have heard plenty of anecdotal and second-hand reports that the saliva testing equipment is already being used by ordinary patrol vehicles.

Why this might be happening and yet the public still told there is only one drug bus, I'm not sure. Like I said, it's just conjecture, it may not be true.

For example: Vic - Road Side Drug Testing Without 'Drug Bus'
 
I found this website also but it's nothing new: http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/c_drugsAD.html

Can anyone tell me if you did test positive and it's your first offence do you get both the Traffic Infringement Notice (3 penalty units fine, 3 demerit points) and the Court penalty (up to 6 penalty units fine, up to three months’ licence cancellation where conviction recorded)?
 
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