Roadside drug-test post-scripts

[losthippy]

The fizzling pace of Medicinal Cannabis law reform in Australia continues to stigmatise those lawfully prescribed to use it if/when they are drug tested at the roadside. I think we've seen enough Aussie cop shows to picture what it looks like. The turmoil and frustration suffered by otherwise law-biding citizens snared in this shitfight is beyond a joke, and the number of folks from all walks of life accessing this medicine continues to rise. It matters little if the penalties for testing positive are relatively minor, but the bitch-slap to one's dignity and stigma of the 'offence' becoming an official slight is cruel and unwarranted. We've all got/have heard stories.

Sadly, advocates for change in this country remind me of Sisyphus rolling his boulder forever up the hill and never reaching the top - no offence intended. The media seems largely lukewarm on the subject and we just don't seem to be making any headway, at least not that we'd know. How far off is a test to objectively measure sobriety/functionality at the roadside, once and for all? And while they work it out, why are policy makers dithering on some sort of wave-through for drivers who can prove they are legally prescribed the substance they've been publicly smacked for using (unless they are obviously significantly impaired)?

Perhaps this thread could become another record of the personal damage done after being caught with THC in the system whilst driving. How has it impacted on you in your daily routine? What have you had to change to accommodate your misfortune? Who else has been impacted, tied to your failed drug test? Has the attending angst forced you to rethink about your use of medicinal Cannabis? Apols for the leading questions, but policy makers need to know about the hardships they've created with their blinkered and unpopular views. The more we hear about this matter in public forums the more pollies will feel pressured to do the right thing by the voters who put them there.

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

All the medicinal cannibals patients I know continue to drive, some even drive while high.

If I can drive 2 hours after taking the maximum dose of amphetamine or morphine I should be able to drive with detectable levels of cannabinoids in my urine or saliva.

Cannibas reform is frustrating crippled in Australia. Inevitably things will improve but in the meantime people have to choose between legally prescribed medicine and freedom of movement.

 

[Jnowhere]

Medical Marijuana is just as legal as recreational where I live. Michigan has basically the loosest( or close to it) weed laws in America. We can grow our own. Upto 12 plants per household. You can buy 60 grams or about 2 1/2 ounces per day if you are 21.

However, we also according to a study have the safest drivers in America, despite some of the worst roads. Also we have the lowest driving age. 15. You can get your learners permit at 14 years and 9 months old.

Tired drivers are a bigger threat. Then again our weed is usually strong and cheap. Maybe couch lock keeps the stoners from driving as much. IDK.

I am curious as to how the cops know to go after medical Marijuana patients?

Do they put that info into a computer and feed it to the cops?

Ah, freedom. Too bad, that freedom is going away in so many different ways.
But, the rest of the West seems to be in a race to enslave and control it's citizens, also.

Just wait till the cashless society that is being implemented reaches the goal of all the globalists; who want to turn the whole world, into a one world police state dictatorship.

By the way, all those inherently worthless crypto currencies, are one of the biggest scams ever.

The "elites" have been planning this for a long time and Europe seems to be ground zero.

Big Brother will know all your purchases.
Gee, I wonder if that will affect anyone here on Bluelight? ( no, lol)

But at least the younger generations are being taught to be good little slaves. ugh, times a trillion.

 

[Rabbit]

In general my rule with cops and their bullshit (illegal bullshit) follows: Refuse all tests. Do not talk to them. Try to be polite about it.

Here they claim they have the right to get a warrant and draw blood. I've never gotten that far yet. But since I'm terrified of needles I would resist with all my might. I'll take the resisting charge over allowing them to stick a needle in me and draw blood.

They've accused me of being high so many times. Usually, when I'm 100% sober. Which only pisses me off. Typically they do it at their little illegal road blocks they're not supposed to be operating in the first place. It's always the same thing: Why are your eyes red? That's their go-to if they don't smell pot or alcohol. I've had them do the alcohol thing when I had passengers drunk. Which is the only time my car might smell like it. I do not smoke pot in the car and try really hard not to smoke it at home if I plan on riding in my car later that night. Shit reeks and once you start smoking it you can't smell it yourself. I smell it on random people all of the time in public that are blissfully unaware they reek like a skunk.

So far I've had good luck. The two times I thought it was going to turn into a problem I was randomly saved by another cop that happened by and told me to go because he knew his "brothers" were fishing. Dumb luck. I had another time at an illegal check point where they pulled the old "Why are your eyes red?" thing. I told him they probably aren't but if they are it's because I'd just pulled a double shift at work. I lied and told him I worked as a security officer for a local business when he asked what my work place was. I knew the jacket from that job was still sitting in my rear passenger seat and figured he'd seen it. As soon as I told him I was a mall cop he told me to go on and have a good day.

Not showering for multiple days in a row to the point where I reeked also seemed highly effective for getting through their little illegal checkpoint one night when I ran to the gas station for sodas at 12am. I made sure to come back through it on my way back since they were camped on the highway between my house and the only open gas station. The cop on the other side stuck his nose in my car. Got visibly upset by what he smelled. Then when I told him I'd just come through 5 minutes ago he waved me by.

Your best bet is to not reek of pot if you're going to be driving around. They don't need a reason to ruin your day. It's best to avoid them when possible. I personally stop and turn around if I see their little illegal checkpoints and I feel like I have time. Since they're illegal and worse that will happen is they're going to pull me over. So I'm in the same situation anyway.

It won't work for you but where I live anyone is legally allowed to ride around with a pistol in their car as long as it isn't concealed. I've noticed they're much nicer if they see a loaded pistol sitting on the passenger seat or on the dashboard. They're usually more chill if you turn on the interior lights before you approach them (or they approach you). If you act like you're not going to put up with any bullshit without coming off as combative at first they're usually more by the book and less prone to go on fishing exhibitions. Don't engage in small talk with them or answer any questions outside of whatever is required where you live (here that means basically giving name/ID). Try to be polite. But don't come off as nervous or scared. If you put off the nervous vibe the wheels in their cop brain starts turning and they think they're going to bust you for something. Even if I have something illegal in the car I don't act like I do.

They seem to fuck with you less as you age. My Dad basically tells them to fuck off even when he's speeding and they always let him go for whatever reason. I don't agree with the strategy but it works for him.

They're road pirates and most of them are as dumb as a bag of hammers. Treat them as such.

The one time I did get pulled out and searched (well the one time where I ended up with a court date) it was because we both reeked of pot. My passenger had like a gram on him and I had a pipe in my pocket. They wrote tickets for both. Originally got pulled over for a busted headlight (hit a deer) and then found out my tags were expired because I forgot to renew them due to being out of town for a month. They brought the dog and tore my car apart looking for drugs. There was nothing in there other than what we had in our pockets. No idea why my passenger didn't eat that little piece of weed I would have. I couldn't eat the glass pipe sadly.

Both of us being dumb. Should have stashed everything in the trunk before we left the weed man's house. Actually, the real mistake I made that night is letting my friend talk me into giving him a ride into town so he could buy like $20 worth of weed at 11pm when I knew I had a busted headlight. Well that and not staying on top of my tags. Oh and forgetting I had a pipe on me because I'd been smoking out of it around my yard earlier that day and forgot about it.

But I wanted to get high for free and you always made dumb decisions when you let your desire to get high override your common sense.

I stay on top of those things now: I am not as easily talked into giving out rides after dark (or at all). My pipes stay at home in my desk and on the off chance I do slip one in my pocket and I make sure to put it back before I leave my property. I stay on top of my car's tags now (I'm renewing one this week as a matter of fact). I'm really paranoid about doing favors even for my close friends. Since most of my bad times with cops involved me doing a favor for someone (actually, all of them now that I think about it).

I got a lawyer for like $300. He got it all tossed out of court because I claimed I'd been smoking CBD out of the pipe (to the lawyer, not the cops. To the cops I said nothing once they found the pipe). Passenger was going to eat the charge even though he was on probation at the time. I talked him into paying the lawyer and they got his thrown out of court too. Turned out they weren't testing any of the weed/pipes they were stealing from people. Probably wouldn't work now because everyone got wise to it and they started throwing cases out left and right soon after. Pretty sure they're wise to it now and actually test for THC. I know they're still pissed about all the stuff being sold in the headshops around here but so far it's still legal to buy and smoke it.

That's the best advice if you do get hemmed up. Shut up. Lawyer up. If I'd run my mouth that night my lawyer wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. Admit to nothing even if they've got you dead to rights. Keep your mouth shut. Pay the lawyer. Let him do the talking for you. He's worth every penny. If you're going to carry toss everything into the trunk before departing.

 

[Rabbit]

I'll spare you the second novel about not doing favors for friends. I have more than a few stories about that (one of which includes getting a beating from two detectives in an unmarked car at 2am because I smelled like weed and let my friend talk me into a 2am munchie run).

I will tell you about my friend though (ironically, the same one I talked about above). He's a great example of why you keep your mouth shut, get a lawyer and don't do favors. Also why you should avoid driving at all if you're going to get drunk/high.

My friend got his first DUI when he became a bit of an alcoholic in his 20s. Like can't drink anymore because he throws up black shit alcoholic. I wasn't around for his first DUI because I lived outside of the area at the time. Suffice to say he admits it was dumb and he shouldn't have been driving at all.

Fast forward a year or so; He's still on probation for the first DUI but he's still able to drive with no restrictions. First DUI isn't that bad here pay a fine and be a good boy for a couple of years. His only real restriction was instead of 0.08 being the legal limit it was now 0.02 or something stupid like that. Couldn't even have one beer and drive. He was being a good boy for over a year at this point.

He takes his girlfriend out for dinner and decides to have one beer with his steak because she wanted to drink wine. She got smashed on wine and he sipped on a beer figuring it'd be fine because he'd be under the limit by the time they left after dinner+a show. If he'd gone straight home after he would have been okay most likely.

But he didn't. He got a phone call from a friend who needed a favor. Which required that he drive 20+ miles out of his way to give the man a ride home. He got him home okay and started back to his own house. Got out on the interstate which he wouldn't have been on if he'd gone straight home. His car drops a CV joint on the way and throws sparks all over the place. Almost totaled it but got it under control thankfully and all was well. He sat on the side of the road with his girlfriend for a half hour or so waiting for a tow truck to show up so he could get his car home.

Cop happens upon them disabled on the shoulder of the interstate. Runs his tags. See he's on probation for DUI. Decides to be a dick and makes him blow (which he was legally required to do upon request at any time). He barely blows an 0.02. Stupidly admits to having one beer with dinner 2 hours ago. Requests another test which was denied. They failed him on the field tests which he can't pass even when sober because he's got cerebral palsy bad and can barely walk.

License revoked, weekend jail time for months, community service, thousands of dollars in fines, mandatory AA meetings for two years with extended probation for several years. Required to pee in a cup upon request at any time for two years. PO could enter his home at any time. Required to pay thousands of dollars and have his car torn up to have one of those breath test lock-outs installed. It's almost 10 years later and he's still dealing with it because he's living on $400 a month through disability and it took him years to pay off all the fines. Still hasn't saved up the $2k-$3k breath test thing installed in his car on top of higher insurance rates and buying a car he plans to scrap after the mandatory 12 months he has to have the thing installed in (they will ruin the car when they install it). I tried to help him out by selling him a car cheap. I sold it to him 3 years ago now and he still hasn't managed to save up what he needs for everything else.

He'll probably never get his driver's license back at this rate. I'd loan him the money but I'm having a hard enough time eating myself as is.

All because he did a favor and made one dumb decision. That $10 beer he sipped on has already cost him over $10k and over a decade of having to bum rides from other people. The worse part? His girlfriend who he planned on proposing to used all this as an excuse to leave him. She's been married 8 years now to another guy, has multiple children with him and it depresses the fuck out of my friend since they'd been together since high school.

They will go out of their way to ruin your life. Their only purpose is generating revenue for the state. They do not give two fucks about you and your situation. My friend is visibly disabled and random people in public will treat him with kindness and go out of their way to do shit for him to feel better about themselves (which pisses my friend off to no end). If they're willing to ruin his life over something dumb like this imagine what they're willing to do to you.

Again the rules: Say no more than required. Avoid them at all costs. Do not do favors. Do not ride dirty. If you do ride dirty put dirty shit in the trunk and get off the road ASAP. Do not kiss their ass, do not act afraid of them but don't come off as looking to pick a fight either. Do not comply with any tests. It will never go well for you. Lawyer up when all of that fails.

 

[losthippy]

The Aussie roadside detection experience is an exemplar in intimidation and helplessness. Firstly, booze-busses and their swarms of checkpoint operators work day and night at random sites all over our road systems, staying briefly to wreak havoc before moving on. Shock-and-awe ring a bell? Traffic gets funnelled through for alcohol breath tests and very often saliva swabs for drugs.
There is no dialogue or defence if one tests positive - just the legal consequences and wondering how you'll get you and your vehicle home. They don't distinguish between recreational or medicinal cannabis, only focusing on the positive detection. Once you've been processed it becomes a matter for the magistrate and the penalty element. Forget about pleading your point as prohibition is a one-size-fits-all brain-fart that mitigates common sense. And woe betide anyone trying to opt out of answering questions or getting frustrated with what's happening. Any sovereign citizen bullshit really gets them stirred-up.
In the end, roadside testing is the means by which 'guilty' drivers are taken off the road. The roads must be kept safe from all the druggies that ply them. The aftermath is the personal and reputational shit-fight victims are left with in it's wake.
That's where Australia is at.

 

[losthippy]

^ I'd say Aussies have matured a lot as far as drink-driving is concerned, and the practice is scorned here for all the right reasons. Penalties are clearly prescribed according to a measurable reading (following the initial presumptive test), and that's that! Everyone knows where they stand. Additional antics after the event are just re-cocking your gun and aiming at your other foot.
The knock-on effect for an initial positive drug test is also set in stone, once the offence has been registered. Cops have done their thing and now you're in the system. Where it might end up is nebulous, depending on too many variables to list here. Needless to say, if you kick up a stink or they find contraband on you or in your vehicle, then the ball is definitely rolling. More penalties will inevitably apply!
'Discretion' is a word often bandied around to lesson the impact on a growing demographic of otherwise law biding law-breakers - where it is plain to see the courts aren't dealing with hardened crims. But a more cuddly approach is still a deflection from the core of the problem. Ordinary people caught up in a whirlpool they never intended swimming near. I'm afraid legislative inaction on drug reform has become so predictable here that people will keep doing what they do and wonder when it will be their turn to do the walk of shame.
Apols for sounding defeatist, but there is literally no sign of resistance here or more than the occasional bleating from some pollie no-one's listening to anyway, so tmrw will be more of the same.
Listening to the crickets.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

In the US it is not illegal to turn around at a drunk driving w/e checkpoint. You must still follow the rules of the road and expect a little extra attention. Better than waiting in line for certain doom though!

Sorry I dont know alot about australia. May I ask how long these post drug use roadside tests detect cannabis after use?? ( I am sure they headin this way fast and would like a jump on the situation)

If it is legal to turn around definitely do that -- we gotta try and find away around these BS tests for cannabis and driving

 

[losthippy]

Random roadside sobriety testing has been around for decades here. Most of their trade is conducted in cities and burbs, with smaller towns in the regions getting blitzed from time to time. You just never know when they're going to appear. They are well-oiled machines consisting of traffic cops to shepherd vehicles from their lanes into testing queues, the test administrators and a 'booze bus' to run secondary testing and processing in at the roadside. Lots of operators. No fanfare, just efficiency and business.
LE doesn't advertise where they will set up, but social media is getting better at ratting them out, especially in more populous areas. They may only stay a short time before moving on, but their presence is a sound deterrent as the word gets around.
It's usually too late to nonchalantly slip down a side street when you see the first manned sign on approach. And woe betide those who do try to bolt. Dedicated cop cars will hunt 'squirters' down to find out why they appeared to avoid a lawful traffic stop aimed at keeping the roads safe! Adrenalizing for the cops, but not good optics for the runners.
I believe saliva swabs can detect THC 24-36 hours after consumption, but there are many variables at play and stories of people who definitely should have tested positive being waved through with negative test results. To be clear, though... if you party hard into Saturday night and recover on Sunday, there's still a good chance you'll test positive on the way to work Monday morning. Or not. Go figure!
False-positives have also been mentioned in the media, though the indignation of those straight people having to defend their sobriety seems to mirror what it's like going through the wringer after a failed drug test for some, even whilst waving their legally acquired prescriptions about for all to see. It's in your system, and that's all there is to it! Tell it to the courts!
For those unfamiliar with free-to-air television, there are primetime reality cop shows here making great theatre of people getting busted drink driving and others undergoing the dreaded drug swab tests. Its a tiresome narrative but these shows still suck in the feeble-minded and remain ratings winners.
It must be said that there is still a lot of indifference towards recreational Cannabis law reform in Australia, and much of the sensationalised drug crime peddled in the media taints the already slow pace of reform in the field of Medicinal Cannabis. There is simply too much else for folks to worry about in their busy lives, and so long as they aren't being directly impacted they'll just go with the skewed narratives they're fed.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Shit in the US they gotta put some kind of warning there is a DUI checkpoint ahead -- other than that sounds similar -- by the time you see the sign your 'legal' options are usually about 0.

24-36 hours that is some straight bullshit as obviously you dont stay high 36 hours after a joint is smoked.

Damn I thought I had it rough "Carrying no more than I can swallow"

Sorry I dont have anything productive to say really other than 'those laws need to change' which is some bold hypocrisy from an American.

 

[losthippy]

Haha... that's why its called 'random' breath/drug testing. The seed of doubt is generationally sown here, so to go against the rule of law is, even for common-sense reasons, not a thing most people take lightly.
But do it they will continue to do, Think of the people juggling jobs and families and commitments and all the minutia in between who wear the additional scrutiny of their meds and judgements of their capacity to function safely doing what they've always ever done, safely, until they were caught!!! Keep on resisting! Overwhelm the system with numbers! Faark, I need a drink!

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

So wait its 'random' or everyone that hits the checkpoint gets it? i inferred the latter.

yea someone needs to take that up with the 'higher courts' as marijuana simply does not impair one for 36 hrs and if there is any form of medicinal or rec...

 

[losthippy]

^ If you're in dual or multiple lanes they'll funnel the outside lane to the roadside, wave some on and process the remainder. Too late to swap lanes once you're in the queue so it's a matter of chance whether you're waved through or have to wait your turn. Idk how many they put through in 30 minutes but defo in the high dozens, of which they'll ping a few for closer attention. Then they pull up stumps and head to the next location. Social engineering 101... Let their be Doubt!
As for arguing about impairment, forget about it. You get nabbed at the roadside and that's an end to the cops' involvement. Next step is the courts and they have the prescribed penalties they'll hand down with no fucks given about excuses - legal or fanciful. And in the end you're still entered into the system as a law-breaker, which we all know has a profound effect on how you go about your business.
I'd like to know how other countries deal with this issue in real terms, and try to understand why Australia is so resistant to change.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

So once you get up to them they check everyone.... wait of the high dozens theyll ping a few.

Fear tactics forsure. Since you really have no control over the external factors I suggest if you do go into one of these checkpoints that your vehicle is well maintained and clean (obviously no odor) and you dress in something "Business like". Than of course have documentation ready --- but I would act like they were annoying me (Wbich they are I am sure) "I got places to be you guys, do what your doing but cmon lets speed this up" type of casual but respectful attitude

Do everything you can to not be 'pinged' in summary.

If I knew if it was a reagent test or what they have going on I could make some effort to see if it is defeatable or anything would cause a false positive that would hold up in court

 

[losthippy]

The roaring silence! It seems that sobriety trials are still underway in Victoria to determine once and for all to what degree Cannabis actually effects drivers. Its been a long time coming though I suspect the results will cause a lot of angst one way or another, when the conclusions are finally aired. I'm sure recreational users who currently don't have a legal leg to stand on will be very interested, as the only thing separating them from the herd is a scrap of paper from a doctor, ruling them out of inclusion. Idk when the trials will conclude, but there hasn't been a whisper thus far. Anyone heard any different? And, of course, the other States/Territories still set their own agendas re. law reform and attitude, so here's hoping something definitive and peer-reviewed will set the record straight. If the results aren't favourable to those in nay-sayer States then the old guard had better be ready to defend their stance in the face of evidence rather than entrenched conviction. Then there is the chance that the science in these trials is extrapolated unfavourably for all Cannabis users who still need to drive, so criminality remains on the table. Watch this space.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

The roaring silence! It seems that sobriety trials are still underway in Victoria to determine once and for all to what degree Cannabis actually effects drivers. Its been a long time coming though I suspect the results will cause a lot of angst one way or another, when the conclusions are finally aired. I'm sure recreational users who currently don't have a legal leg to stand on will be very interested, as the only thing separating them from the herd is a scrap of paper from a doctor, ruling them out of inclusion.

Aye - last study I saw had cannabis users less culpable than non cannabis users in accidents. You gotta already mess up to have an accident though lol

Idk when the trials will conclude, but there hasn't been a whisper thus far. Anyone heard any different? And, of course, the other States/Territories still set their own agendas re. law reform and attitude, so here's hoping something definitive and peer-reviewed will set the record straight. If the results aren't favourable to those in nay-sayer States then the old guard had better be ready to defend their stance in the face of evidence rather than entrenched conviction. Then there is the chance that the science in these trials is extrapolated unfavourably for all Cannabis users who still need to drive, so criminality remains on the table. Watch this space.

Yea here in the states if you are a recreational pot smoker and own guns they can now kick your door down with no warrant. There are links somewhere.

I think I already asked the main questions that should bee studied -- 1. Does pot make you any more likely to disobey traffic laws 2. How long can you say someone is "High" after they have smoked. 3. You have any right to access these people in the first place (Guesss we crossed that bridge over there)

4. Can this test be straight loopholed? At least till the legality part is straightened out...

 

[losthippy]

One of the reasons Australians are left in the dark over the numbers of cannabis users getting pinged at roadside stops is the spineless reportage in the media. It suffices for them to throw a blanket over positive results for all illicit substances (supplied by the cops) and beat everyone with the same big stick! That is unless the perp has a boot load when they get busted or fuck up majorly and damage people and/or property whilst under the influence. Then they'll hit the channel 7 news and become the poster-child of criminality for the gullible masses. Why not detail specific substances they detect? I think the naysayers are running scared at the rising number of cannabis hits at the roadside and they just don't know how to handle it maturely. Keeping the cannabis-related data vague and refusing to divulge their weekly tallies is a fair sign that the tide continues to turn and crunch-time is coming. Of course, with the world in turmoil right now there are more pressing issues to deal with on a National level, but this should not distract from all those other well-paid Govt. players not directly involved doing their jobs and sorting this business out! There must be hundreds of them sitting on committees and think-tanks milking the public purse year in and year out and continuing to get nowhere (that we'd be aware of). What a junket! They need to level-up, get the job done and redirect their efforts and public resources to more urgent and productive use. Rant over!

 

[losthippy]

PS. I imagine LE, et-al, would monitor BL and other sites to help gauge public sentiment, so perhaps a brave soul in their number could find a way to contribute by explaining the mindset behind policing efforts and give a dissenting voice to this (understandably} lopsided forum. We're all grown-ups, so lets go! ...

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

^We always knew ya guys were around here somewhere lol

 

[Rabbit]

I will give you guys the sure fire way to ride around drunk, fucked up, high or whatever you prefer without getting pulled over by the cops. Ready for the secret? Buy a motorcycle. 9 times out of 10 they don't bother with people on motorcycles because it's a self correcting problem. The 10th time it's easy enough to out run them.