RFD: Focus Forum and Drug Discussion groupings

wiggi said:
Something has to be done about Other Drugs. The vast majority of threads are completely idiotic and it just seems to be getting worse as the days pass by.
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Here, have some novel ideas. You can either:

1) Ignore the threads all together and go about your business.
2) Use the handy dandy report feature.
3) Maybe take the time to answer the question. Yes, people can be annoying on the internet, and just as much so in real life, but most users are here for one thing, harm reduction.
 
^ I don't know how much time you spend in OD, but ignoring "good thread A" or "stupid thread B," its true that overall quality has dropped. Many good, intelligent posters have been absent as of late, turned off by the lack of direction of the forum. Wiggi could have been more poetic or eloquent in what he said, but its true, and most of the OD regulars (the ones who have the knowledge and experience to provide answers to those in need) have been turned off as of late.

Also, :( to the disappearance of the social thread. Its not anybody's fault that it didn't serve its intended purpose. We can't force new members to come in and communicate with the rest of OD. So it was a lot of the OD regulars talking. I think it only helped to bring them closer. Again, we can't force new members to post in the social thread, but no one ever tried to push them out.

I know that anything I say to mods/admins is ignored, or interpreted as an attack/insult, so I don't know why I'm even posting here. Please don't interpret it that way, people. I hope everyone understands I'm being sincere and not trying to be negative in any way. I care about OD. Looking into the future, I don't know what it will be like. Its up to everybody to make it better, not just one person, not just staff, and not just "no more n00bs." It will take a lot of work.
 
johanneschimpo said:
It will take a lot of work.
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Yes, it will, and truthfully, I hope that by putting BDD in the same group as NMI will help out tremendously, as well as other things that have been brought up amongst NMI & OD staff to iron some things out if even temporarily.
 
^ Are you talking about putting BDD in the "Bluelight Basics" section? I hadn't heard that one yet.

IMO, I see that as generating less traffic for BDD, because everyone thinks their question is so advanced and that the "basic" forum is below them. Thats why you get the occasional "snorting xanax" thread in ADD, and stuff like that, people need their question answered by the "brightest of the brightest." Just like everyone thinks their question is so unique, so they have to start a new thread rather than UTSE for questions that have been answered literally hundreds of times. "Oh I'm talking about taking 40mg hydrocodone and this thread is about taking 37.5mg hydrocodone, so its totally different and I better start a new thread" =D

If that is done, and BDD is moved, I truly do hope I am incorrect, and that it increases BDD's traffic. I really hope that basic discussion can be taken to basic forums, leaving OD space for harm reduction, not helping people get high. Also, if OD contains more intelligent discussion, I think it will bring back some of the high quality posters who have been turned off as of late.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
The only other OD reference in THIS thread was
Immediately followed by an OD mod's response


...to which no examples have been provided, in here or elsewhere (unless they were PM'd to the mods or REPORTed to the staff in general).
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I didn't respond to that because I thought this thread was for suggestions and I didn't think it was appropriate to turn it into that kind of discussion.

Since you asked, I'm happy to reply with one I know you're familiar with, the Overdose FAQ. That is a glaring example of highly dangerous misinformation that's been approved of by the staff of Other Drugs and has been left unchecked. It reflects a serious gap in both technical and ethical understandings of harm reduction. Bluelight, the (once) best source of harm reduction info on the web is warning of the dangers of even attempting CPR in an overdose situation. It's still there, and it's been how many months now?
 
The Overdose FAQ isn't in Other Drugs. It was circulated through a half-dozen forums as a collaborative effort before being placed in the DRUG FAQ section of the website. I'm sure the Senior Staff would be willing to review it and determine if it needs to be changed if asked.
 
Okay, lemme back track a bit over my words - I didn't mean to sound like a condescending prick. If it did come off that way, I'm sorry.

flexi - I appreciate your not wanting to clutter the general discussion with OD specifics, and I've taken that thought a step further and moved that content over to this more appropriate thread.


I think flexi's example actually serves multiple purposes, in that it refelcts the opportunity for the 'loudest shouter gets heard' to sometimes remain in effect, but it falls back to the members who are more knowledgeable and concerned to raise issue with such noise and shut it down with the pertinent facts. We don't expect the mods to be the knowledge base, in fact there are many instances where there are members with much deeper and better understandings of a subject. Mods are there to help facilitate the discussion - case in point the thread flexi refers to WAS moved around the site, to both increase awarenes AND to get more feedback from knowledgeable members. In this instance, we did listen to member requests for improvement and follow up on it - a direct contradiction to the statement from wiggi that nobody listens :\ You complain that mis-information is still out there.....but even examples of what not to do, when countered with facts and better information, can educate people who might think along the same lines. We don't need to 'erase' bad information when it is presented, we need to use it to educate on with better facts.


Now, a side comment to the idea that the older members are being driven away by the forum content.....that's a sticky proposition. Every forum on every site expreiences some turnover of membership, it's inevitable unless the person has no life and simply exists on the web. Some hang on longer than others, some actually have a life AND remain committed to a forum and it's content, but to attribute attrition to content alone is misguided, IMO. Aaaaannnnnd, as noted, content is based on 'member contributions', not something the mods can enforce per se.

The limit to what mods can enforce is to either close threads (which can lead to stifling discussions as people become afraid to post), or moved threads (which encourages people to use more appropriate forums for their questions, as is being negotiated amongst the mods), or merged (as jc points out, my 36.5 mg dose is so different from a 40 mg dose thread 8( ). So, there are limited tools available to the mods, but they can't do it all. What they can do, they are trying to implement and adjust, but they still rely heavily on the members (and memberators).



Gah, I gotta run, but I'll be back on this shortly.
 
GenericMind said:
The Overdose FAQ isn't in Other Drugs. It was circulated through a half-dozen forums as a collaborative effort before being placed in the DRUG FAQ section of the website. I'm sure the Senior Staff would be willing to review it and determine if it needs to be changed if asked.
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It originated in Other Drugs, and that's where the factual errors were originally pointed out (and ignored - by the staff of OD). It was circulated around after the glaring mistakes had been pointed out to an admin. It never would have got there if the staff of Other Drugs had an even basic understanding of one of the most crucial bits of harm reduction information.

At the time it was created in Other Drugs, Sixpartseven even said that all the staff of OD had read it and stood by it. Don't try and distance yourself from it now.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
We don't need to 'erase' bad information when it is presented, we need to use it to educate on with better facts.
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In the case of an FAQ that contains such dangerous misinformation as the Overdose FAQ, it does actually need to be erased. There's no room at all for that type of misinformation in a document like an FAQ, which is put into a forum where no one can reply. It becomes "the final word" and so must be completely accurate.

The fact that no member of staff noticed the major mistakes in that FAQ is very concerning, because dealing with overdose is one of the most basic pieces of harm reduction information.

Mods don't have to know everything, but they should know the basics, or at the very least, demonstrate some degree of commitment to find out the facts, if they aren't sure.
 
Weird. I don't recall ever reading, approving, contributing, or posting in that thread. It may surprise you to find out that Moderators don't always have the time to read over every informational thread that gets posted in their forums. Even if they did, I doubt many of them would consider knowing whether or not CPR should be performed only by someone trained in CPR one of the most crucial pieces of Harm Reduction information. I doubt many people could even answer that question for sure off the top of their heads.

I think, perhaps, that your responses in that FAQ may have been overlooked by some of the staff whose forums it passed though. It may be in part because whenever you've offered feedback for this site it's sounded jaded and cynical rather than helpful and constructive.
 
^ I believe I was an OD mod at the time that was written, and I kept myself away from it, because I'm not a medical professional and I didn't want to have anything to do with a document that was going to be viewed a medical advice, especially emergency medical advice. I don't think the person who wrote it had any medical training, and I don't know if any medical professionals contributed to it at all, and thats definitely bad.

I'm qualified and more than willing to give advice on drugs, as this is what I study in school and I have experience working in a pharmacy, but I have no experience as an EMT or anything like that, so I won't give advice on things that should be left to professionals, especially life or death situations.

Flexi: I don't think it was said that "everybody in the OD staff stood by it."
I purposely avoided it, for the reasons I mentioned above. I totally believe GM in that he either didn't know about it, or stayed away from it for the same reason as I did. It should have been written by a medical professional - I know there are plenty of people on BL, and specifically in OD, who have experience as EMTs or other areas of emergency medicine.

But I do think an FAQ of that nature would be important to this website, but it must be 100% accurate, and safe for the average Joe to follow without putting anybody in even greater danger. But for the specifics, and what in the FAQ is wrong, if anything, I don't know (again, for the reasons I stated above - I avoided it. I'd rather give no information than inaccurate information.


edit: I see I repeated myself a few times, but thats OK. I think my point is clear. GenericMind shouldn't get his balls busted over this, just because it originated in OD. If you want to bust someone's balls, find the guy who wrote it. Or better yet, if you have medical training, go through and fix it. It would do a great deal of good and you just might save somebody's life.
 
Generic Mind, you did actually reply in the original thread, so I do think you knew of it's existence. Your colleague, sixpartseven, posted in that thread: "I stand by it. The rest of the OD staff stands by it, and unless an Admin has a problem with it, then it stays" after the errors were pointed out several different ways, but a few different posters.

Go back and have a read -> A Guide and FAQ: What to do when someone overdoses.

A simple google search would have clarified this issue. I think that this is the job of a moderator in these cases were the information being discussed is life or death. If you're saying that a mod shouldn't be expected to know basic overdose first aid, then at the very least someone should have googled it to find out.

And I might be cynical and jaded, but I've never provided dangerous misinformation on Bluelight. My post history speaks for itself.
 
I realize I'm coming in as an outsider here on this specific thread in question, but, here goes. sixpartseven clearly says:
sixpartseven said:
What you have to remember is this FAQ is not for everybody. Its directed at the legally paranoid drug user. The drug user who fears the law. Write one for people who arent concerned with that so much. Write one similar to this, but explain what to do while waiting for the EMS. Thats the best advice I can give you.
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I certainly don't mean to single out that one comment, but it very simply states what I observed in reading through the thread.

Why not at the very least title the FAQ in question as such then? I can certainly see both positions on the matter, but it is clear to me that this is definitely not a FAQ to be applied to everyone, everywhere in the case of a drug overdose, and instead aimed at those paranoid, perhaps just worried, about their own legal interests, specifically in the U.S.

Just a suggestion. Other than that, maybe someone should write up a proposal for a new/improved/separate 'What to do in the event of an overdose' thread, or present changes that should be made and organized into one, complete, compiled thread of 'What to do . . .' based on location with feedback from members and reliable sources actually in/from/knowledgable about that location.
 
^I like that idea. We always try to encourage members to contribute and write FAQ or helpful threads on subjects they're knowledgable about. As far as an Overdose FAQ, nobody other than TheodoreRoosevelt has offered or attempted to make one. I'm sure an alternative to the one we have would be helpful.
 
Rogue Robot said:
Here, have some novel ideas. You can either:

1) Ignore the threads all together and go about your business.
2) Use the handy dandy report feature.
3) Maybe take the time to answer the question. Yes, people can be annoying on the internet, and just as much so in real life, but most users are here for one thing, harm reduction.
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1) I try to ignore those threads. Come by OD for a few months and see if they don't begin to drive you crazy.
2) I report many, many threads whenever I spend time in OD. It's a shame that it takes the mods a few hours sometimes to close the threads.
3) I just about always answer the questions relating to harm reduction but it's hard not to get pissed off after seeing a countless number of threads such as " Should I snort Xanax?"

TLB: JC was right whenever he said I could have been a little more poetic with my post about the current state of OD, but I was pretty pissed off then. But let's face it, you sound like a condescending asshole in response to my post. I do not mean that as an insult, that's how you came across though in my opinion.

What's the point of even posting suggestions or opinions when they are just going to be attacked by various mods/admins? You say that it's only my opinion that "OD sucks" when there are many other members that are just as fed up with all of the shit. Just go read some of the social threads in OD or perhaps PM some of the very intelligent posters that choose no longer to post.

What was the point in closing the social thread in OD? GM just seemed to be pissed off at me and closed the thing. I made a comment about "raping noobs" in regards to a bunch of threads that were posted that were completely ridiculous. I even apologized and tried to explain myself, but after my post the thread was closed.That's just my opinion and I'm sure that yall will disagree with me. I thought the social threads were for posters to talk about topics that weren't directly related to the subject forum. How is it our fault that a lot of newer members didn't choose to post in the thread? I know some newer members did post and were treated the same exact way that everyone else was.

I don't see how you can say my post doesn't hold water TLB. True, I did not site anything I was talking about and it was pretty much a rant on the current state of OD. What I said though was true. The comment I posted months ago in June was "promptly responded to by an andmin only days later." A prompt response takes days later? I had no idea that IJ even responded to my post. A response that is given by an admin/mod doesn't mean shit really until we actually see results from our suggestions. That's why I said it's bullshit that our opinions are basically being ignored because essentially they are being ignored. I know that everything I say will not bring any changes.

As I said before, it's not just me that feels that OD is going down shit creek with no paddle. If you don't believe me, why not start a thread in OD asking other members what they think about the current state of OD? Sure there is the link to this thread, but most OD members won't even bother visiting here. I'm not trying to insult nor flame anyone and I think I deserve to be treated with respect just like anyone else.
 
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