"Reward" addictions

[expothead]

What is happening with addictive substances that stimulate "reward" pathways? Is this simply dopamine's natural behaviour or to do with specific receptors or something more complex?

For me, I yearn for tobacco far more than weed alone (preferably in a bong with something green but i'd light up a fag at a pinch if i let myself). Getting stoned is nice, but it lacks a certain sense of gratification that only tobacco seems to bring.

I imagine opiates, amphetamines and some more addictive substances also share this quality i'm referring to. ? And the less, almost non-, addictive psychedelics (and cannabis), etc lack this ?? Perhaps i'm trying to simplify things too much.

And from left field, gambling, for example, does this also trigger the same "pathways" by instant gratification, and without the use of drugs leading to addiction?

So many questions. Sorry.

 

[footscrazy]

Dopamine is involved with reward, making you more likely to repeat a behaviour that causes dopamine release. All drugs and addictive behaviours can release dopamine to a greater or lesser degree.
Also there's a phrase 'neurons that fire together, wire together'. When you repeat a behaviour, the neural connections involved in that behaviour strengthen and make it more likely (and easier) for you to repeat the behaviour. This is also why you certain triggers - seeing a crack pipe, going to a place you used to use etc, will make you crave, because the neural pathways have become interconnected.
Dopamine also greatly increases the ability of new brain pathways to form and strengthen. So using drugs has the double effect of forming new connections in your brain, and then strengthening and favouring them due to dopamine release.

Also, there's a difference between wanting and liking something - dopamine can be involved with anticipation of reward rather than actual pleasure - so you can have a continuing compulsion to smoke the crackie even when it's not fun anymore.

 

[bustabraincell]

Expothead, for what its worth, I think tobacco is the most addictive of substances, so kudos to you for being able to take it or leave it.

Footscrazy, thats a pretty wild and scary chain of events that you offer, it makes sense to me.

 

[Mr Blonde]

What footscrazy said is right on, though drugs like cannabis and the psychedelics carry less of a risk due to less direct dopamine action compared to opioids, amphetamines, cocaine, etc.

Gambling, sex, food all get dopamine going as well which is why you sometimes hear about people being addicted to those things as well.

 

[hyroller]

^^^^ I sometimes think I am addicted to food (lol), as even despite years of ongoing meth use, food was always my favourite-favourite

but then I also think that all humans need food to survive, so in a way are all predisposed toward the need to eat it... eating for me is a serious business though, just as cooking is, and I guess that having developed strong tastes for chilli and spices deepens that affinity even further (anyone who eats curry and spicy food in its various incarnations on a regular basis might understand the compulsion that drives such an 'addiction' - I can't last 36 hours without a hit of the HOT stuff )

however, the compulsion to ingest drugs even when they have no place in your life anymore is probably the equivalent of a compulsive overeater, as opposed to a seasoned foodie. doing something for the sake of it rather than to deduce a sense of enjoyment is an all too simple trap to fall into

 

[expothead]

Also there's a phrase 'neurons that fire together, wire together'. When you repeat a behaviour, the neural connections involved in that behaviour strengthen and make it more likely (and easier) for you to repeat the behaviour.

....

Also, there's a difference between wanting and liking something - dopamine can be involved with anticipation of reward rather than actual pleasure - so you can have a continuing compulsion to smoke the crackie even when it's not fun anymore.

so the common advice (and practice) of setting goals and, when achieved, rewarding oneself with their DOC, could actually be counter-productive because it binds the two and makes one seem less without the other? (ie. you're missing out on your usual double whammy of dopamine)

I guess at the heart of whats pissing me off right now is that even having had a couple of "wins" at work, I still get cravings for the kind of stimulation that tobacco (or bong smoking) seems to provide (to somehow complete the picture). And so begins a long (or short) internal battle that i've earned a little bonus - which often becomes a big bonus... I'm sure you know the story, and i'll stop there lest this thread get sent to TDS...

(Thx for the replies. Perhaps I'll just try the nicotine gum again.)

 

[skatkid]

I thought of myself as not having an addictive personality until this yr. Then I realized I get cravings for alot of things eg. I couldn't start my day without a sugary cereal, took me weeks to wean myself onto oats. Everytime I drive past maccas I crave a big mac.



When I go to the movies I crave an opiate. When I start work I crave coffee etc
I used to think cause I tried smoking and didn't like it and didn't do opiates everyday I didn't get addicted to things but in reality I get triggered by plenty of things

 

[hyroller]

^^^^ I think we all get triggered by various things in our surrounds....

I'll take different ways home to avoid old haunts so I don't have to think about the past. Just seems easier to avoid than have to go through the mental prism of longing thought, which isn't really longing so much as it is basic repetitive behaviour....in all reality.

 

[chugs]

when addicted to heroin, the best high was the one that you gave yourself at the height of withdrawals. (in fact being masochistic i've found a strange fucked high from the withdrawal from opiates themselves).

but back to subject, perhaps because you don't get the physiological withdrawals from pot compared to say nicotine that in turn the satisfaction of smoking nicotine is partially the more satisfying because its sating the discomfort/pain of withdrawal (that really starts to happen when your blood level of nicotine drops to a certain point).

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Amen to the WD breaking high being the best one!

As soon as I start the ritual of getting high I can feel the relief just about to arrive.