Open Discussion restructuring bluelight

[legalizeall]

Well, i guess you agreed with everything else i put since that was the only thing you quoted out of my post. I like how you didnt even mention anything else i talked about unlike the previous one where i think you quoted me on almost every sentence i had.

All the people? In the last few months ive seen it at least 4 times. So me and this other person, blueberry have broken the record bringing it up twice in a year? Come on man, thats just plain untrue. Plus, wouldn't you say its possible that its been brought up but you maybe didnt see it? You cant tell me you see every post that is made here.

Name? Thats not really my place to do that and im just trying to make a point that other drugs is a touch on the miscellaneous sounding side and especially for the person whos here for the first time. Would you not agree. If your at the store looking for fruit and say they had apples, oranges, peaches, and then other fruit, wouldnt you think that was kinda odd thinking now what does that mean. I know its not the best scenario but its what popped in my head.

Im not trying to get into a post vs post thing. Ive said my piece, if you want to look into it thats great, if not thats ok too but im not hear to battle anyone. Have a great day

 

[legalizeall]

Creating a novel discussion forum is of course defensible semantically, but the ultimate success of such a paring is dependent on the frequency and quality of replies from the community. The social dynamics on display in the Other Drugs forum are typically not conducive to constructive discussion in the realm of psychedelia, which warrants maintaining the sub-forum level association with 5HT psychedelics. If our community was simply more matured it might be different. By all means, lets make that difference if we can, but I'm skeptical of the practical merits of further division at this point.

More matured. I would agree to that somewhat but who decides what is mature enough, mods i would think. But then the problem arises that you end up being like the site drugs forum where most people have a stick up there ass and all they do is jump down peoples throats. Its becomes so up tight that you might as well not even have discussion forums and just make it information only forums. This is drugs were talking about and sometimes it gets a little whaky with some interesting characters that might not be as "proper" as some, but shit thats what makes life fun. Sometimes we need to just loosen up and have fun and not be so uptight. But it does make a case for some type of separation.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Honestly I was one of the people really behind this idea to begin with a long time ago, but not to put any other forums down - I think the structure, response times, tidiness etc in PD is second to none really, and fragmenting the forum could risk fragmenting that structure as if it was the same team moderating I think we as mods would naturally subconsciously spend more time in one of the two forums rather than dividing equally between both - and if it was an entirely new mod team, well I think the forum structure would be even more likely to divide in two separate ways.

That said, although I'm used to calling it PD now just like how I still call NPD "ADD", I think Hallucinogenic Drugs would be a better name for the forum now that we've been renaming forums. Hallucinogenic drugs accurately fits what the forum covers: Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants - the 3 main classes of hallucinogen.

Another possible name would just be "Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants", that way it'd be easier to get used to the new name - PDD instead of PD

The forum description also says:

Advanced discussion of psychedelics and dissociatives

That should be:

Advanced discussion of psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants

To reflect the fact we cover deliriants too

I also think as atara touched on that if any forum would be worth splitting off it'd be OD into Stimulant Discussion (All non empathogen stimulants) and Depressant Discussion (Opioids, benzodiazepines, other CNS depressants) - or at least making one of the two and leaving the rest in OD. I think OD is the most fragmented of the forums and really doesn't need to be. I'd even be willing to return to my previous state of hyper-activity here on BL and offer my time working the new forum as well if we had a section for Opioids & Other depressants, given my fond memories with them

I don't think there's much fragmentation in PD - psychedelics and dissociatives go pretty hand in hand in terms of discussion and most users of one also use the other, combinations of the two are frequently discussed etc - I just see no real sense in moving it. I think it could even lead to more confusion for new users as there are a crowd who do not know the difference between psychedelics and dissociatives, when I first discovered Bluelight I myself was one of them, I came here to look for posts about Ketamine, which I labelled a "psychedelic" at the time, and found the posts very quickly as a result.

 

[alasdairm]

Name? Thats not really my place to do that...

so you berate us for not listening then, when we ask for your opinion, say it's not your place? i do not know what to make of your muddled response.

alasdair

 

[Tommyboy]

Re: separating Other Drugs: I think of that forum as the main harm reduction forum where many questions are not specific to one drug, but rather the ROA or combination. So if someone is asking about a missed shot of meth a person with experience missing shots of heroin or something can still give input which they probably wouldn't get around to doing if they are an opioid user and that was posted in a meth forum.

Also, as with any discussion on this topic I always point to combination threads and how it would be difficult to place them if the substances are in different classes. There are tons of speedball threads, a lot of threads about using benzos with amps, about using benzos or amps during opioid withdrawals, using opioids for stim comedowns, etc, which the OP and/or staff would have to think about where to place.

I don't see how anybody can say that we don't break things up more due to being complacent as we've done it before, and I don't see how you could say that you've never seen good arguments for not splitting them up as I've seen both mods and members alike make good points. I have seen a few good points for splitting them up, but more are against.

As for the 'Other Drugs' name, I agree that it is not direct but you have to consider that the forum has it's description right under it's name so it's not like people are coming in blind. I'm up for hearing name suggestions though.

I'm a noob so this might be dumb or covered already and I just don't know but , how about a like button. Like Facebook has where u can just click if u like a post . I know that mad lame but I see post I lmao at but don't want to add to thread to say that was funny as shit or whatever, u know?

There are several threads on this if you search within this forum. There may be one toward the top of the archived subforum here.

 

[legalizeall]

so you berate us for not listening then, when we ask for your opinion, say it's not your place? i do not know what to make of your muddled response.

alasdair

I berated people for not listening? Wow, thats a reach and your taking what im saying out of context to make it seem like im making hostile posts. I didnt berate anyone. Its not a big deal.

I simply said, and i was only talking to one person and others who have this topic on their mind here, that blueberry shouldn't waste his time with this topic that ive seen brought up before. Topics that mods have said have been discussed and its something that doesn't need to happen right now. Im not sayin that is bad, I just didnt agree with it. They said this in civil ways and i dont argue with that.

If you go back and read the post i made on the thread where my original thread was moved, you will see that i say that im not gonna pursue this anymore as Ive seen other people have already before me.

You asked my opinion on what i think would be a good name for other drugs man. Dont make it seem more than it is. This after you picked apart each sentence i made on a post. Who is berating who here?

Its not my problem you cant figure out what im sayin. But to say its muddled is not very kind either. This from a public relations admin? What kind of pubic relating is this. Plus i wasnt even talking about you or too you here. So why instigate this or start something that doesnt help anything and goes off topic. Like i said i dont want to get into a battle here.

I dont appreciate the picture your trying to paint of my post especially when im trying to drop this maturely instead of it becoming a post to post thing. I dont want to engage in that and i would think, with your level of experience here, you would want to set a better example. That being said, im still gonna defend myself when i think a post is highly inaccurate or untrue esp when its a post that tries to put me in a bad light.

I know there is gonna be a response to this but i just want to say that i think we can agree to disagree here and just end this. I think as men we can just drop a petty issue like this

 

[alasdairm]

Its not my problem you cant figure out what im sayin.

communication is a two-way street...

But to say its muddled is not very kind either.

don't mistake brevity and a matter of fact response for unkindness? you accused the site of being "...set in their ways and reluctant to change". were you being unkind? i am getting a mixed message from your messages and your thinking seems muddled to me. that's all.

I dont appreciate the picture your trying to paint of my post especially when im trying to drop this maturely instead of it becoming a post to post thing. I dont want to engage in that and i would think, with your level of experience here, you would want to set a better example. That being said, im still gonna defend myself when i think a post is highly inaccurate or untrue esp when its a post that tries to put me in a bad light.

why are you continuing to be unkind?

the reason we're disagreeing is, to me, that you want to hold us to a different standard than you hold yourself. it's valid for you to want to defend yourself when you think a post is inaccurate or when you feel you're being put in a bad light but when i do it, it's a problem.

a lot of people (we've been around for nearly 15 years so a lot of people) are full of criticism for this site and the way it's run and the layout and etc. but very few are willing or able to help enumerate that criticism in a constructive way let alone suggest practical solutions which are grounded in anything other than knee-jerk emotion.

i'm not saying you're one of them but please don't get bent out of shape when we don't drop everything and start moving the furniture because you don't understand why the sofa is where it is?

the reason i asked you for suggestions for renaming "other drugs" is that's an easy place to start. if you can't or won't even throw out a few suggestions for a better forum name, it looks more like you're complaining just for the sake of it. ymmv, obviously.

regards

alasdair

 

[JackiePeyton]

Well that was rude. I'll just add to threads then, thank you sir.

I don't think he means to be rude, I think that is just his personality, In my limited experience. At least you know where you stand.
Better than one who pussyfoots around, no?

As for all the changes...All I can say is too much at once is never a good idea.
Start small. Try something and see how it goes.
I like the idea of Nootropics as separate. That may be one place to start.
Do things gradually so people don't get all wound up.

 

[legalizeall]

Your something else man. Your twisting my words, subtle but still a twist and thats why i keep posting cause im just not gonna let someone do that and try to make me out like someone im not.

Im just gonna give two examples, even though there is more, and be done with my post cause no matter what i say your gonna have some rebuttal that repeats what i say inaccurately. Its a waste of our time and bluelights. One is im not suggesting anyone "move furniture" which I made clear in the post way before this started where it says im done pursuing this topic cause its been discussed before and the mods have made a decision on it which im fine with. Heres my post from awhile go and shows im not in a frenzy about this like you make me out to be.

07-05-2014 00:21

I took quite some time reading the other threads on this topic and based on that, im just going to drop my idea all together based on a few reoccuring themes i noticed.​

Second, which is total bullshit, is where you say i accuse the site. I said a few people. Thats a big difference, wouldn't you say, the whole site of bluelight compared to a few people. What is your motive here? I mean really, unless you made a mistake and didnt read it right, the only other thing that comes to mind is very unethical. It shows proof of how your subtlely twisting what im saying. Even tho its one word your making it seem like im talking down about the whole site instead of a very small number of people. And those people im not talking down to or about, just adisagreement which i think is ok to have. That just makes me think your trying to make me out like this bad person who doesnt like the people here which couldnt be farther from the truth. Heres the reference in case you forgot or misread

28-06-2014 15:00
To be honest, it just sounds like a few people are set in their ways and reluctant to change.

I dont say site in their do i.

although you do: you accused the site of being "...set in their ways and reluctant to change".

whats the deal with that


Im just curious why you are letting someone like me get to you so much. Im quite the noob and this is over one topic that you say is only brought up once every two years. If your so confident and sure of what your saying, then you wouldnt have acted like this. You really wouldnt care what i had to say but obviously you do for whatever reason. You just wouldn't have responded like ive seen other mods here do with people. Your just not being accurate here when you refer to my posts at all.

Ill just say one thing too aside from this topic. Is that the bluelight mods have been some of the most level headed and down to earth people i have met in any forum ive seen or been a member of. I was posting back and forth with one, even a couple pm's, and i didnt even notice they were a mod till much later in our converstation, neversickanymore is who it was. A really great person. But that never happens elsewhere where you see a mod just be a cool person to chat with. I couldnt believe it and had to check back and see if the statues had just been changed to a mod in the course of our conversation but no, just a chill person.

And especially in forums about drugs you dont see this. Usually you get the mods that think their above everyone, no humility, lack of respect for the new person, and just seem jaded and bitter about the whole thing. Here they have a sense of humor, give great info, show a level of caring esp with brand new people, and are just some kind people.

I have disagreed with some and some have replyed to my post in disagreement but they make valid points and bring a side to the converstation i maybe didnt see. Its just done in a more professional way than what ive seen with you here. But ive never had this experience where my posts are tiwsted and turned to make me look bad and this back and forth immature bantoring..

I have let my emotions get the better of me and although i dont go back on what i have said, maybe i could have said it differently. I really shouldnt have let it get to me and ended this much earlier but when i see the way you reword what ive said, then i cant let that go cause its making me out to be this person i am not. And i will say, shame on you for that.

I could put more holes in what your saying with quotes from me that show the inaccuracy of your statements but this as taken up so much more of my time and energy than it should have and thats my fault, not yours. This is a big part of your world i can see that, but your doing some reaching here trying to discredit me and its just weak

So i wish you well, maybe we can talk kindly later on down the road to each other but im gonna go do what brought me here, other than having the desire to help my fellow user that needs a hand with a problem, and that is, im gonna get high now. I encourage you to take a puff or drink or pill or whatever poison you do and enjoy the moment brother. Its too short for this. Its all about growing as a better person and this just sets us both back. Have a good day. Maybe this should have been a pm. Sorry if this has annoyed some people

 

[alasdairm]

Your something else man. Your twisting my words, subtle but still a twist and thats why i keep posting cause im just not gonna let someone do that and try to make me out like someone im not.

i'm not trying to make you out to be anything. i'm responding to your opinions with my opinions.

you criticised the way the site is run and i'm giving you the courtesy of a response. don't ask a question if you don't want to hear an answer with which you might disagree.

One is im not suggesting anyone "move furniture"...

if it wasn't clear, let me make it clear. that was an analogy. when i say "move furniture" i mean "change the way we do things". you're making the case that, for example, the od forum should be reorganised (or at very least renamed). that means changing something. this is the crux of the matter and this is what i'm talking about when i say that i'm hearing a muddled message from you.

im not in a frenzy about this like you make me out to be.

where did i say you were in a frenzy? i did not.

please don't accuse me of putting words in your mouth when you're doing the same to me.

Second, which is total bullshit, is where you say i accuse the site. I said a few people.

i omitted the word "admin. i intended to write "site admin". i can see how that might change the meaning of what i wrote so you have my apology.

Im just curious why you are letting someone like me get to you so much.

you're not getting to me at all. you're asking me questions and making points and i'm answering and addressing them. you can't have your cake and eat it...

Is that the bluelight mods have been some of the most level headed and down to earth people i have met in any forum ive seen or been a member of.

i agree.

I have let my emotions get the better of me...

i agree.

...and enjoy the moment brother.

thanks.

alasdair

 

[JackiePeyton]

I had a friend I was upset with once and wrote him a long letter. He took a red pen and re-wrote everything I said addressing each and every few sentences with his own. I was so weary after reading it all I realized we were never going to agree and our friendship has never been the same.
In this case I was dealing with a really paranoid, heavy pot smoking hoarder who over analyzed everything- ironically at the heart of the original argument was his over overanalyzing.
Sorry if my post has annoyed you but I find red tape to be of no use. And u probably may have done well with pm's. I mean this respectfully
Good Luck

 

[legalizeall]

My opinion ended along time ago with this and ive been responding to your childish attempts to discredit me. If you really thought i actually meant move furniture, well im not even gonna say what im thinkin there and i can see how you wouldnt understand certain things i said. Self reflection is a wonderful thing you should try sometimes. Maybe eat some humble pie when you do that too. The ego can be such a killer. Your the only mod or admin that i have seen that gets into it with people and usually over nothing topics. And 99 percent of the time it starts with a belittling comment you make to the person that as nothing to do with the topic but just a senseless jab at their character. Nothing fights. Take notice of how the other mods act here. Ill give you the last word cause i know you need it. http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/tirelessrebutter.htm

thanks.

Legalizeall

 

[alasdairm]

Ill give you the last word...

sure. thanks.

some random thoughts:

1. don't criticise people publicly for being childish while sending them messages privately containing personal insults.

2. communication is a two-way street. i cop to my 50%. will you cop to yours? the "site" issue was a simple misunderstand for which i apologised immediately. that's what adults do.

3. self reflection is a wonderful thing. you should try sometime, too

4. don't ask questions if you're going to get bent out of shape when you get an answer you don't like.

alasdair

 

[Tommyboy]

Legalizeall, that's just alisdairms posting style so I assume you that you are not getting any 'extra' attention going your way. If you look into his posting history here you will see that his posts in this thread are consistent with how he's addressed things in the past.

 

[flyhighk]

I suggest making a poll... just to see what bluelighters want. Split OD/keep OD/try splitting it for some time and then make the final decision.

 

[Transform]

I don't think there should be a final decision made without a trial under any circumstances but otherwise I think that seems reasonable.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think it is also a social / drug culture issue to split the forum up too much. AFAIK users of dissociatives and users of psychedelics mingle well and the drugs can fulfil somewhat similar purposes even if the MOA and chemistry is pretty different.

For similar reasons I don't think opioid users should be separated from the 'speedfreaks' in OD. But your own statistics seem to suggest that that would be a change that makes the most sense: the numbers support that split in OD more than the dissociatives split from PD.

It seems wise and totally fair for alasdairm to focus on the fundamental change in organisation rather than the work or administrative challenge. But, modding crews would be split up as well which can complicate management of the subfora and communication between them. Finally, the social compartmentalisation would be significant as well.

What would be the real gain from dividing the forum? I think the idea is neat superficially, and having more precise focus on dissociatives is handy for sure... but the same could be achieved by giving PD thread labels: psychedelics (as in serotonergic agonists) / dissociatives / deliriants. Only that way there is no social division. OD obviously has similar issues as PD and in OD the labels are being used already. It's just logical to apply the same solution to PD.

The reason MDMA has it's own forum is, again, probably a drug culture thing. Always ask yourself if the people visiting a forum have a lot in common, not just if the drugs are categorized and compartmentalized properly. This is a message board, not just an information library. I think to purely inform we can make lists, indexes, faqs etc. But to make it all purely business might kill the atmosphere a bit.

I don't think I'm qualified to comment on OD, but I completely agree with solipsis for PD. It works well the way it is with dissociative sand psychedelics. The two are pretty closely related in my opinion, the experience can be very psychedelic. Adding a dissociatives sub forum would someway reduce traffic in PD and it likely wouldn't have a lot of its own.

 

[flyhighk]

Shouldn't PD be renamed ? Hallucinogen discussion would be more appropriate imo.