edgewise1
Bluelighter
Thanks Cane. I was just curious as my neighbor gave me the balance of his script, forty-seven .125mg tabs, for a "just in case" event. Guess I will keep them and at least give them a try if the need should arise.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids Restless Leg Syndrome
- Thread starter kunmo
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Cane2theLeft
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^if I were in your shoes, I would certainly try them for opiate-withdrawal RLS. I believe I have read people anecdotally reporting success but many others report little to no relief.
In any case, I don't see why it would hurt to it and it very possibly might help.
In any case, I don't see why it would hurt to it and it very possibly might help.
I dont know if its the same for everyone but my RLS comes from the extreme pain in my legs when i wd..... I found that 10 mg prednisone twice a day takes care of about 80% precent of the leg pain i get making me not wanna kick as much.. Also tonic water and immodium and a good magniesum zinc supplement in large doses. Not kidding this really works for me i feel dirty stillo and tired sorda lethargic and have all the mental wd symptoms but 80% of the worst wd crap is solved by these meds for me along with solid meals. Im sure throwing some ultram on top of all that shit would work very well too... it has been a major source of relief in the past when tapered down properly.
Cane2theLeft
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^I constantly sing the praises of high-dose loperamide for opiate withdrawal. I was extremely skeptical before trying it and I really doubted people's anecdotal reports of its effects, but I now know how effective it can be and how manageable my moderate habits were to kick using simple OTC remedies... of course large and huge habits won't be as responsive, especially to the doses I used (usually about 24mg), but I think most people can still benefit somewhat from using loperamide... especially if its combined with strong NSAID's and clonidine or benzos.
Eight0Eight
Bluelighter
I thought it was great for WD, until one day I took 100mg (as I always did) - and got hit with the worst stomach pain imaginable.
I HONESTLY thought I was going to need hospital attention - thankfully after 5 1/2 hours the pain wore off.
Wouldn't touch that stuff in those doses ever again..
Cane2theLeft
Bluelight Crew
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^i never use doses that high but if it causes stomach cramps, anticholinergics will generally stop those in their tracks. I got those too at first but never had them when I added doxylamine.
Its one of the reasons lope and diphenoxylate preparations contain drugs like atropine.
Its one of the reasons lope and diphenoxylate preparations contain drugs like atropine.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
there's a few different medical(prescription) and alternative treatments available for this.
Medical Treatments
one of the original treatments involve a dopamine precursor such as carbidopa/levodopa. there is a big problem with augmentation with these treatments though. what augmentation is you have that good nights sleep but the symptons will have worsened the next day. these treatments tend to only be effective for a short period of time ranging from 2-3 hours. not the best of options, but an option.
you also have the option of dopamine agonists such as Ropinirole, pramipexole, pergolide and cabergoline though these are not yet available in australia according to the site i grabbed this from. these are newer drugs and are less like to cause augmentation.
next you have the benzo family, particularly clonazepam. the problem? you don't really want to be trading one addiction for another. if you choose benzo's make it a short course.
anticonvulsant drugs like gapapentin and carbamazepine are also available for prescription. not much is known about how these work in RLS, but they may be helpful to people in whom dopaminergic drugs or opiates have not been effective or are contraindicated.
Alternate treatments can range from anything like yoga exercises, acupuncture, massage therapy, herbal medicines (vitamins and minerals). these treatments arent necessarily for everybody and aren't always going to be effective though but are well worth a try. who doesn't like a good massage?
i have a good page bookmarked that i have used in the past. it's an australian site but methods incorporated can be used universally.
the site is here
Medical Treatments
one of the original treatments involve a dopamine precursor such as carbidopa/levodopa. there is a big problem with augmentation with these treatments though. what augmentation is you have that good nights sleep but the symptons will have worsened the next day. these treatments tend to only be effective for a short period of time ranging from 2-3 hours. not the best of options, but an option.
you also have the option of dopamine agonists such as Ropinirole, pramipexole, pergolide and cabergoline though these are not yet available in australia according to the site i grabbed this from. these are newer drugs and are less like to cause augmentation.
next you have the benzo family, particularly clonazepam. the problem? you don't really want to be trading one addiction for another. if you choose benzo's make it a short course.
anticonvulsant drugs like gapapentin and carbamazepine are also available for prescription. not much is known about how these work in RLS, but they may be helpful to people in whom dopaminergic drugs or opiates have not been effective or are contraindicated.
Alternate treatments can range from anything like yoga exercises, acupuncture, massage therapy, herbal medicines (vitamins and minerals). these treatments arent necessarily for everybody and aren't always going to be effective though but are well worth a try. who doesn't like a good massage?
i have a good page bookmarked that i have used in the past. it's an australian site but methods incorporated can be used universally.
the site is here
qwe
Bluelight Crew
my doc gave me pramipexole (mentioned in the list of dopamine agonists above) for RLS during opiate post w/d
anyone have any experience with this? some of the side effects look a little "ick" and it seems to be one of those drugs that can cause both sedation and insomnia at the same time :/ (at least, those are both common side effects on the wiki page)
anyone have any experience with this? some of the side effects look a little "ick" and it seems to be one of those drugs that can cause both sedation and insomnia at the same time :/ (at least, those are both common side effects on the wiki page)
here is my experience with trying things for RLS:
antihistamines; diphenhydramine makes it worse for me. So 90% of OTC sleep aids make it harder for me to sleep. I have some hydroxyzine but have not tried that yet.
opiates/opioids; percs/vicodin help alot (my RLS occured before i ever tried opiates but WD sometimes makes it worse... not a heavy user though). Kratom helps more than hydrocodone/oxycodone for me. Not sure why... only problem is kratom makes me get hot and sweaty sometimes. So if your a/c is out you may not wanna take it.
benzos; my doc gives me oxazepam... which works great but i have to at least double the dose he gives me so it only last me about 2 weeks instead of a month. keeps me from getting addicted though. alprazolam works as well and definately helps me sleep, but i wake up super groggy and tired. Ativan (lorazepam) helps a little but for some reason it makes my throat feel kinda funny or swollen so i don't like it unless there's nothing else.
muscle relaxers; only one's i've tried are skelaxin which did nothing (not a recreational one either so don't try ) and flexeril which was mentioned before... flexeril makes it 10 times worse for me like diphenhydramine does... no idea why, both do same to my mom as well.
other; i have done kava many times, although i do enjoy it just to relax with during the day, it seems to make the RLS a little bit worse at night. I think it'd be worth trying for most people though as it has potential. Tastes gross and makes me nauseous. don't buy pills or extracts with this, just get good quality root powder, mix about 4 good heaping spoonfulls with water, mix. strain. chug.
hope that some of this info helps you out. i am currently mixing a phenazepam solution so i'll post if that helps any.
antihistamines; diphenhydramine makes it worse for me. So 90% of OTC sleep aids make it harder for me to sleep. I have some hydroxyzine but have not tried that yet.
opiates/opioids; percs/vicodin help alot (my RLS occured before i ever tried opiates but WD sometimes makes it worse... not a heavy user though). Kratom helps more than hydrocodone/oxycodone for me. Not sure why... only problem is kratom makes me get hot and sweaty sometimes. So if your a/c is out you may not wanna take it.
benzos; my doc gives me oxazepam... which works great but i have to at least double the dose he gives me so it only last me about 2 weeks instead of a month. keeps me from getting addicted though. alprazolam works as well and definately helps me sleep, but i wake up super groggy and tired. Ativan (lorazepam) helps a little but for some reason it makes my throat feel kinda funny or swollen so i don't like it unless there's nothing else.
muscle relaxers; only one's i've tried are skelaxin which did nothing (not a recreational one either so don't try ) and flexeril which was mentioned before... flexeril makes it 10 times worse for me like diphenhydramine does... no idea why, both do same to my mom as well.
other; i have done kava many times, although i do enjoy it just to relax with during the day, it seems to make the RLS a little bit worse at night. I think it'd be worth trying for most people though as it has potential. Tastes gross and makes me nauseous. don't buy pills or extracts with this, just get good quality root powder, mix about 4 good heaping spoonfulls with water, mix. strain. chug.
hope that some of this info helps you out. i am currently mixing a phenazepam solution so i'll post if that helps any.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
I don't know if this has been said (can't be bothered to check) but there has been loads of research on the effectiveness of clonidine in treating RLS and I know from experience it works! Check out the trials online!
monstanoodle
Bluelight Crew
Thank fudgiculz for an understanding doctor 
Got given 100 Co-Codamol (30/500mg) and they've helped a treat... By doing a CWE ofcourse
I thought about the Banana idea before but obviously didn't eat enough of them. Might give it a go again when I'm in dire need
Got given 100 Co-Codamol (30/500mg) and they've helped a treat... By doing a CWE ofcourse
I thought about the Banana idea before but obviously didn't eat enough of them. Might give it a go again when I'm in dire need
I was prescribed Mirapex last year for RLS and it really did help. I personally did not notice any compulsive issues. However, that can be a side effect. I also should mention that my RLS at the time did not stem from opiate withdrawal. I also did take quinine and it helped as well, not as much as the Mirapex, but enough to get a few hours sleep here and there. Do be careful though at higher doses quinine can be harmful and toxic.
There is some great advise on this board.. My last withdrawal was so painful..Weed did wonders but the high made me want more opiates.. I love those little blue M squares but hate the withdrawal . I scored some percs 10mg to help with the RLS and cold sweats.. Trying really hard to taper down with those.. Im at 3 a day and starting Monday Ill skip my afternoon feed.
Artificial Emotion
Bluelighter
My friend found codiene to be helpful. I'm not sure if it would work with your high tolerance though.
chemicalEactive
Bluelighter
For me (and I used to day dream about laying on a table saw and having someone lop me off from the hips down)...I would take baths as hot as I could stand it, alternating between Epsom salt and freshly peeled Ginger. Just used a potato peeling tool and shaved Ginger into the bath tub. If RLS is due to WDs or intensified by it then the Ginger helps to pull the toxins out of your body more rapidly. The sooner that poison is out of my system, the sooner my legs catch a break.
Also, right before bed, if my legs are hurting then I will often apply muscle rub to my legs. It sorta feels like a steady light massage and makes the pain seem a little less intense...
As for the whole massage thing...I have gotten a few therapeutic massages (not to be confused with relaxation massage), and I am not even kidding when I say that afterwards I did not experience one leg cramp for between three and four months! The massage therapist told me that he was going to separate my muscles...and I'm not gonna lie, I could have probably taken a bullet easier at the time. I was sore for a few days, but after that I did not experience one leg pain for the longest time perhaps ever.
One last thing...for me, weed makes it soo much worse (in particularly during the day). I find that if I keep myself busy, despite the difficulty in doing so, it takes my mind off of the pain in my legs and it makes the time go by quicker.
Also (guess I lied about the whole "last thing" bit)...massaging the bottom of your feet helps, as there are about 75,000 nerve endings in your foot that connect to various parts of your body. Drink lots of water too.
There are some very helpful tips here. Just wanted to throw in some natural options, as the natural approach has proven to be the best solution for me by far.
Also, right before bed, if my legs are hurting then I will often apply muscle rub to my legs. It sorta feels like a steady light massage and makes the pain seem a little less intense...
As for the whole massage thing...I have gotten a few therapeutic massages (not to be confused with relaxation massage), and I am not even kidding when I say that afterwards I did not experience one leg cramp for between three and four months! The massage therapist told me that he was going to separate my muscles...and I'm not gonna lie, I could have probably taken a bullet easier at the time. I was sore for a few days, but after that I did not experience one leg pain for the longest time perhaps ever.
One last thing...for me, weed makes it soo much worse (in particularly during the day). I find that if I keep myself busy, despite the difficulty in doing so, it takes my mind off of the pain in my legs and it makes the time go by quicker.
Also (guess I lied about the whole "last thing" bit)...massaging the bottom of your feet helps, as there are about 75,000 nerve endings in your foot that connect to various parts of your body. Drink lots of water too.
There are some very helpful tips here. Just wanted to throw in some natural options, as the natural approach has proven to be the best solution for me by far.
jamesBrown
Bluelighter
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- Jun 29, 2010
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- 2,711
I agree with ^^^chemicalEactive^^^ about how the natural approach is a good idea.
Im not gonna lie though, ive never done any of that stuff he was talking about(aside from a plain old hot bath)....but I still believe that since we are natural beings, it would make sense that a natural remedy could be the best one to cure many of our "physical" problems.
Allthough, I used to be a SERIOUSLY HARDCORE heroin addict and as most people know, that comes with the privelage of having to go through withdrawals from time to time. And the withdrawals(atleast for me anyways), tended to focus its excruciating pain down to my legs for some reason. I know people who get bad withdrawals but only in their back or bad headaches or something.....but no, I get my withdrawals almost completely in my legs....It feels like I just ran a 200 mile marathon and STILL can't keep my legs still.
In those situations I would either get some more heroin/opiates(obviously), or if I was out of money I would take HOOOOOOOOT showers for as long as possible until the hot water ran out, then I would do it again as soon as the hot water heater kicked in again. And I would keep repeating this process until someone would yell at me about the water and electricity bill(hehe). This seemed to help the pain a good deal....but unfortunately most of the pain(usually all of it) would come right back as soon as I step foot out of the shower. So it was only temporary relief, but believe me, when your in full blown heroin withdrawals, you will take ANYTHING you can get.
Also, having someone give you a massage(for free because obviously if I had money I would of spent it on dope) can really help the pain too....and the pain relieving qualities of a massage can last much longer than the massage itself.
Other than these natural remedies to RLS (probably caused by opiate abuse)...you could always just take some benzodiazepines...they tend to take the edge off and not much more, unless taken in massive quantities. Also the drug "Mirapex" is actually prescribed for restless leg syndrome(also parkinsons disease though).....and I have found it works GREAT for RLS, especially at night because it will KNOCK YOU OUT....as long as you dont take tiny doses.
But, when im going through opiate withdrawal and having to deal with RLS and the whole gammit of symptoms....I would PRAY for something to just knock me the fuck out so I can be unconcious for the worst of it all.
That was my 2 cents
Any questions, just let me know,
jamesBrown
Im not gonna lie though, ive never done any of that stuff he was talking about(aside from a plain old hot bath)....but I still believe that since we are natural beings, it would make sense that a natural remedy could be the best one to cure many of our "physical" problems.
Allthough, I used to be a SERIOUSLY HARDCORE heroin addict and as most people know, that comes with the privelage of having to go through withdrawals from time to time. And the withdrawals(atleast for me anyways), tended to focus its excruciating pain down to my legs for some reason. I know people who get bad withdrawals but only in their back or bad headaches or something.....but no, I get my withdrawals almost completely in my legs....It feels like I just ran a 200 mile marathon and STILL can't keep my legs still.
In those situations I would either get some more heroin/opiates(obviously), or if I was out of money I would take HOOOOOOOOT showers for as long as possible until the hot water ran out, then I would do it again as soon as the hot water heater kicked in again. And I would keep repeating this process until someone would yell at me about the water and electricity bill(hehe). This seemed to help the pain a good deal....but unfortunately most of the pain(usually all of it) would come right back as soon as I step foot out of the shower. So it was only temporary relief, but believe me, when your in full blown heroin withdrawals, you will take ANYTHING you can get.
Also, having someone give you a massage(for free because obviously if I had money I would of spent it on dope) can really help the pain too....and the pain relieving qualities of a massage can last much longer than the massage itself.
Other than these natural remedies to RLS (probably caused by opiate abuse)...you could always just take some benzodiazepines...they tend to take the edge off and not much more, unless taken in massive quantities. Also the drug "Mirapex" is actually prescribed for restless leg syndrome(also parkinsons disease though).....and I have found it works GREAT for RLS, especially at night because it will KNOCK YOU OUT....as long as you dont take tiny doses.
But, when im going through opiate withdrawal and having to deal with RLS and the whole gammit of symptoms....I would PRAY for something to just knock me the fuck out so I can be unconcious for the worst of it all.
That was my 2 cents
Any questions, just let me know,
jamesBrown
tlks2Angels
Bluelighter
ive tried a million things for RLS (and arms) from opiate withdrawel...and have yet to find anything that works....thats the one part of withdrawing i cant deal with it kills me ...if you find something that works let me know ...i would 
you forever for that LOL
you forever for that LOL
ou81too4me
Greenlighter
I shot dope all through the '90s and kicked many times in detoxes or rehab stints just to get back on it again. In those days there was no real internet or anyone talking about RLS for that matter. Every time I would come off heroin I'd get RLS so bad and tried to explain it to the doctor or nurses on staff and they'd look at me like I was crazy or making it up. I can't even begin to tell you what it's like to come on this forum many years later to read about other ppl going through the same thing. I seriously thought I was the only one. Sorry for bumping an old thread.
RLS is a neurologic condition. You got it. The connection is that rest itself is the trigger: something says that these muscles are getting too much rest, and they have to move. It is either linked to, or caused by, too little dopamine in sufferers. Now, natural dopamine diurnal variation is high in the morning and tapering to low by bedtime. Requip is a dopamine agonist: it makes the natural dopamine more effective, so it "solves" RLS. Problem is that your brain thinks that there's now too much effective dopamine out there, so that it ratchets down the production of natural dopamine. This means that there's too little dopamine earlier in the day, and way too little in the evening; you have to crank up the Requip to keep pace. Thus, there's symptom augmentation, expanding to other times of day, greater intensity, and other parts of the body. The brain responds to more Requip, again, by seeing too much effective dopamine, so it ratchets down the natural dopamine yet again. You see the cycle.
As I understand it, Requip is an agonist, and it needs natural dopamine to work. So when the brain ratchets down further and further, the amount of Requip needed just grows endlessly and non-linearly.
Again, as I understand it, the only way out is to go through Requip detox itself, shutting it off. The brain will pick up its dopamine production. Unfortunately, it takes about 5 days to return to where it was, which means about 4 truly awful days.
This is what my doc says is the reality behind RLS, and the future if I stay on Requip, so I can only speculate at this point. But it's the first thing I've heard from RLS that seems like a consistent story based on actual fact. 4 days of hideousness in exchange for way more stability is the concept on offer here. I'm thinking about scheduling the awfulness.
As I understand it, Requip is an agonist, and it needs natural dopamine to work. So when the brain ratchets down further and further, the amount of Requip needed just grows endlessly and non-linearly.
Again, as I understand it, the only way out is to go through Requip detox itself, shutting it off. The brain will pick up its dopamine production. Unfortunately, it takes about 5 days to return to where it was, which means about 4 truly awful days.
This is what my doc says is the reality behind RLS, and the future if I stay on Requip, so I can only speculate at this point. But it's the first thing I've heard from RLS that seems like a consistent story based on actual fact. 4 days of hideousness in exchange for way more stability is the concept on offer here. I'm thinking about scheduling the awfulness.
CrazyCajun
Greenlighter
Ive been tapering from 2520 mg of morhine daily. I took pain meds for20 years to control chronic pain. It worked well and I was able to function. That is until one day I realized something wasn't right. I'm taking enough to kill a small horse,but no matter how much I'd take, the pain was still there. It was as if I were taking placebos. After a few months of falling asleep everywhere, still hurting, I decided to try surgery for the fourth time. And when the first three failed, that's a hard decision.
Surgeon tells me I have to decrease meds bc he won't be able to keep me comfortable, so I started a taper schedule at home and got 93% off. After surgery, was when I really hit rock bottom. I realized that the pain I had surgery for was still there ans just as bad, so back up goes the dose right? Wrong. I realized that after six months and being almost off, that I was getting no relief, and needed to know why.
Turns out receptors in my brain are fried, and dopamine and endorphins are all screwed up. What happens is the pain hurts me more than it should, and receptors don't react appropriately, and it's a vicious cycle. Thankfully, I have good days to look forward to as we'll as a wife and seven kids who need me to be here.
Having said this, I've made up my mind to get off morphine completely, I've switched doctors, and am looking forward to trying new things. We've had success with the trigger point injections, and I'm going to try the Percocet 10s again, which work on k receptor.
Now as for the opiate withdrawals, I know a thing or two about them, and I will share what I've noticed.
First, runny nose (hydroxyzone pamoate) antihistamine works well, makes you drowsy though, and that's not bad when you wish you would die already..
Second, clonodine helped me a ton with both wd symptoms, but mostly agitation and anxiety. I was blowing up daily, cursing, slamming stuff, just pissed and hurting!!!
Third, overall aches started in knuckles, then ankles, then spine. All joints hurt bad. For that I took alleve and Motrin.
Fourth, Restless legs, (the worst of them all) responded well to clonazepam and clonodine.
Finally, the hardest to deal with has been that dysphoria or dull grey feeling as if nothing will ever be fun again, I like my THC for that.
Most importantly has been my prayer life and support from my wife. Many couples don't make it through this stuff. I am only taking 60 mg twice daily now, and in two weeks will be off.
It's been the toughest year of my life, and I've literally been sick with wd 4-5 days of each of those weeks. I would drop 100 mg every Thursday which meant being sick all weekend but leveling off Tuesday or so only to repeat the process over and over again. I will be glad when this is over. I want to look into rapid detox and see if eligible to get me through this last two weeks and get me back to an opiate naive state. It may take years for my body to get rid of all these proteins, but I will beat this thing that has ruined my pain perception and ruined many other lives as well.
Surgeon tells me I have to decrease meds bc he won't be able to keep me comfortable, so I started a taper schedule at home and got 93% off. After surgery, was when I really hit rock bottom. I realized that the pain I had surgery for was still there ans just as bad, so back up goes the dose right? Wrong. I realized that after six months and being almost off, that I was getting no relief, and needed to know why.
Turns out receptors in my brain are fried, and dopamine and endorphins are all screwed up. What happens is the pain hurts me more than it should, and receptors don't react appropriately, and it's a vicious cycle. Thankfully, I have good days to look forward to as we'll as a wife and seven kids who need me to be here.
Having said this, I've made up my mind to get off morphine completely, I've switched doctors, and am looking forward to trying new things. We've had success with the trigger point injections, and I'm going to try the Percocet 10s again, which work on k receptor.
Now as for the opiate withdrawals, I know a thing or two about them, and I will share what I've noticed.
First, runny nose (hydroxyzone pamoate) antihistamine works well, makes you drowsy though, and that's not bad when you wish you would die already..
Second, clonodine helped me a ton with both wd symptoms, but mostly agitation and anxiety. I was blowing up daily, cursing, slamming stuff, just pissed and hurting!!!
Third, overall aches started in knuckles, then ankles, then spine. All joints hurt bad. For that I took alleve and Motrin.
Fourth, Restless legs, (the worst of them all) responded well to clonazepam and clonodine.
Finally, the hardest to deal with has been that dysphoria or dull grey feeling as if nothing will ever be fun again, I like my THC for that.
Most importantly has been my prayer life and support from my wife. Many couples don't make it through this stuff. I am only taking 60 mg twice daily now, and in two weeks will be off.
It's been the toughest year of my life, and I've literally been sick with wd 4-5 days of each of those weeks. I would drop 100 mg every Thursday which meant being sick all weekend but leveling off Tuesday or so only to repeat the process over and over again. I will be glad when this is over. I want to look into rapid detox and see if eligible to get me through this last two weeks and get me back to an opiate naive state. It may take years for my body to get rid of all these proteins, but I will beat this thing that has ruined my pain perception and ruined many other lives as well.