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Resetting negative after-effects with another trip

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incartiettelle

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Joined
Dec 26, 2010
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I'm wondering if anyone on BL has experienced negative after effects of MDMA (or any other recreational drug) and has subsequently rolled/tripped again in an attempt to 'reset' their brain circuitry/mental state. Was the 'reset' successful? Does anyone think this is a viable means of treatment for 'bad trip'-induced depersonalization and heavy anxiety? If so, please provide a detailed account of what happened to you. I am asking because I have exhausted the traditional options of time (it's been almost 2 years), exercise, meditation, healthy diet (I do/have done all of those things), CBT, etc. I think that if I had access again to the blissful, universally-connected state I previously enjoyed, I would be able to shift my mental state back to the way it was before. Back to when I was comfortable with the world and its mysteries. I want to do this, but am afraid of potentially having another bad trip or further exacerbating any damage I (potentially) may have done.

It's been such a long time. I hope someone out there has some advice.
 
If I can ask......what happened to you??? I'm currently going through a similar situation. Around a year and a half ago I had two really bad trips on LSD and what started off as HPPD developed into depersonalization and heavy anxiety. I'm still still with all 3 but the HPPD and anxiety have decreased noticeable amounts and the DP is still going strong. I'm going to a rave in a few weeks and I was actually thinking about trying the same thing but I don't wanna end up worse than I am right now.
 
The only real reset is taking a break and letting your brain naturally heal itself. Don't fool yourself.
 
I've only done that with LSD, and no other drug. A really good LSD trip can make the memories of a bad one a thing of the past, and the joy of the experience can override the mental disturbance of the previous bad one. But you have to be an expert at setting up trips to make this feasible, and I got burned so badly on my last trip that I have decided to never do it again.

I think your best bet is to just lay off the mind altering for 3-6 months, and let your brain return to equilibrium in its own natural way.
 
I had a bad trip once. I was at this girls house and she was in the kitchen and i said something about her right when she walked in... i thought she heard me and the roll reversed on me.. I was crazy paranoid. I thought everyone was trying to kill my buss and make me feel miserable . It last for like 3 hours. I didnt know what to do... Long story . BUt everytime i smoke weed by itself that feeling comes back to me.
 
Cryptix, is that your personal experience? I've been at recovery for nearly two years - dp/anxiety/dr still going strong. I really want to talk to someone with either experience in extended recovery over time (meaning longer than i've been at it...i want to know if things get better because 2 years seems too long to wait) or experience in 'resetting' with another trip.
 
My suggestion would be if you really want to try it again, try a normal dose, and don't re-dose. If you are going to re-dose, do it only once and preferentially half of what you took initially. The other big thing that seems to help the negative post roll for me is Piracetam. There are a few on here including myself who believe that Piracetam protects your serotonin receptors in some way. I wouldn't take it before the roll as I find that it lessons the roll significantly. Take it right before you go to bed after a fun night of rolling and start a regiment for a week or two after. I find the come downs are quite a bit better with Piracetam.
 
Hey old buddy - sorry to hear you are still so distant from life.
You once told me I was 'light years' ahead of you in recovery, but I must admit at 17 months of HARD work I am still UP and DOWN.
Including occasional worsening of vision - like trouble focusing on distant objects or moving from close to distant repeatedly.
I have exercised almost daily for the entire time and have eaten very healthy diet and plenty of basic supplements (esp. fish oil, b-vitamins, turmeric).

I remember you tried a LONG list of Chinese and Indian herbs, some with great potential.
Yet you have reported a continuation of your despair, despite ALL attempts to correct your brain function.
Let it be known - the herb or medication to fix MDMA neurotoxicity does NOT exist.

I understand why you are curious about MDMA though.
I remember thinking something quite similar at several points in the recovery process.
It is a very strong serotonin releasing agent - maybe you can fight fire with fire...

I caution against this for reasons found in research - all of which display a correlation between length of abstinence and extent of recovery.
But you are requesting anecdotal reports....

I never did try to 'unroll' by rolling again.
But I know at least two BL members that have, with very LITTLE success in the long-term.
Somedud and Seattle_Stranger.

Somedud tried rolling because he was feeling 'better' and was drunk, at month 8-9 of recovery.
He claimed a real change in anxiety as a result - a complete LOSS of it.
At first he welcomed the absence of this emotional response, in fact he slept VERY well that night and for the next several months.
Was his problem fixed?

No.

Within 2-3 months he began complaining that his recovery had 'stopped' altogether.
That he didn't feel anxiety, or much else!
And he couldn't 'read' people at ALL anymore - facial expressions, body language, and verbal interaction was VERY alien and challenging for him. His depersonalization had gotten WORSE, even though his anxiety was kinda shut off.

So he tried SSRIs, lexapro to be precise.
Within 5 weeks of medication, very healthy diet, and lots of exercise - he was reporting a 90% recovery!
His attitude in one of his posts was almost jovial, proclaiming lexapro as a 'cure'.

That, too, didn't last long.
Within 2-3 months of taking it he was DONE.
Now he was reporting a COMPLETE disconnect from emotion - a zombie like existence.
And all symptoms of depersonalization got even worse.
I begged him not to take that shit before hand, but he had to find out on his own.

Now, at probably 20 months of total recovery time - he tried rolling again.
It has been about three weeks since this, and he finally says that it made him more social.
For the first time in a LONG time he wants to hang around people most days and even smoke weed.
I spoke to him on the phone and he sounds pretty connected - but he would probably not claim that the MDMA really 'fixed' anything.

In both cases I suspect that the surge in serotonin did cause a new plateau to be reached.
A branch of nerves was able to sprout, perhaps.
When I eat high tryptophan meals now, it makes me very very VERY sleepy.
And I really enjoy the sensation - the calm.

So increases in serotonin probably do have SOME effects.
But there is little reason to concluded that a massive release will cause substantial increase in cortical serotonin and dopamine activity.
Which is really the cause of your DP and depression.

Seattle_Stranger claimed that every time he tried to roll he went backwards.
To the beginning.
His words...

He would VERY strongly recommend against MDMA for you.
And he tried it at least twice.
But he DOES claim that mushrooms had 'lasting emotional benefits' that persisted for months after the experience.
He also said - "You will learn WAY more about yourself on psylosibin than you EVER will on MDMA!"

This statement is revealing to me - because it actually seems to acknowledge a truly meaningful experience and a LONG-term change in cognition and emotion.

And research on mushrooms does indeed show a long-term anti-depressant effect on certain people.
For at least a YEAR in many cases.

A single dose of mushrooms can really change a person's life, if they are severely depressed or suffering from terminal illness.
They truly display a change in thinking that does not simply go away.

Why are MDMA, a powerful serotonin releasing agent, and Lexapro, the most lauded reuptake inhibitor - completely useless?
But mushrooms, a selective serotonin agonist, work?

Psychidelic drugs like psylosibin and LSD are though to derive their primary effects from 5HT-2A and 2C receptor agonism.
LSD, by the way, has 100 times greater affinity for the 2A receptor! Perhaps the mushrooms are more reasonable...

The prefrontal cortex and visual cortex are rich in these receptors.
And it is the 2a receptors in the frontal lobes that are probably the source of the 'lasting' and positive effects of mushrooms.
Maybe it is a simple structural change - by activating all those prefrontal 2A receptors at the SAME time, you are able to actually rewire an entire branch of the serotonin system in the higher brain.

Perhaps it is able to actually MOVE a number of axons from the hypothalamus (between the frontal lobes and brainstem) BACK to the higher brain! This is the primary finding in primate research that implicates MDMA as a true cause of permanent frontal lobe dysfunction.
Hyper-innervation of the hypothalamus during recovery.

The brain is trying to grow new serotonin axons, but they CANNOT reach the highest parts of the brain.
They are constantly collapsing, yet the network continues pushing - this is a CYCLE.
Each time another set of axons collapses, the remaining frontal serotonin nerves expand just a little more.

The fact that the network keeps pushing AT ALL, is a great sign.
But it is also the source of unending change - and perhaps despair.
It really does feel like it will never ever end.

But BL contains many anecdotes of people around two years that feel much better.
Others have said it took them more than five to fully 'recover'.
Plenty of evidence exists that trying to substitute the 'rewiring' process with other drugs or medications will only delay the inevitable and life-long changes that are taking place.

The only drug other than psylosibin that has interested me in the least would be ketamine.
It causes synaptogensis in the PFC and some amp/MDMA users SWEAR that it blocks neurotoxicity and prevents a comedown.
But I have read too many research papers that show ketamine produces rapid SHORT-TERM anti-depressant action.
Within weeks you return to normal.

Mushrooms are the ONE exception in a year and a half of reading and listening to others.
A 5HT-2A agonist wins the contest.
Ask Seattle_Stranger about it.

I remember reading that mushrooms suppress a part of the brain that is normally hyperactive when personal identity is at risk.
When your sense of self is threatened, as with terminal illness or the re-wiring process from MDMA toxicity, the brain tries to maintain its 'personality'. Its sense of itself.
2a agonism allows for this to be prevented - for the brain to ACCEPT what changes are wrought, even if they are PERMANENT.

My first experience on mushrooms was indeed quite meaningful, nearly ten years ago.
I remember that it did cause a VERY long-term change in the way that I thought about life, society, family...
And although I had a VERY negative experience taking them on an empty stomach a few years later, I can never deny that the first experience changed who I was in some small way. And not in a bad way.

No I have not done them during my recovery process.
But I plan to soon - an NO other drug or medication has interested me this much.
As with ALL drugs dosage and purity is critical.
And any serotonergic drug acts upon the 'brain-gut' circuitry - so eating healthy at regular intervals is ALSO critical for avoiding anxiety issues while tripping.

I hope this information has helped.
Keep doing everything else like exercise and healthy lifestyle.
But do NOT go for the MDMA - even if it changes you it does NOT selectively target the 2a PFC receptors.
It dumps a MASSIVE amount into the whole system!

Better to push the balance forward to the higher brain only.
Good luck.

FBC
 
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I found myself in a similar state after abusing MDMA myself. It's not a pretty place!! I'm so sorry to hear you're having trouble. We are here to help. :)

So, I can't say that I've ever tripped specifically to 'reset' my mental state as a result from MDMA after effects. However, I can say that I have had the world's scariest and traumatizing experience in my head while rolling my face off and taking hits of computer duster.. 8) ...and I felt like I did serious damage to my brain, because I was in the darkest place imaginable for nearly a year after. I was a completely changed person. After that, I avoided MDMA like the plague, I feared it, and had actually never tripped on any psychedelic besides salvia at that point either. Eventually I came across some 2c-e, had my first couple psychedelic trips, and felt like I had a new interest and understanding and respect for both drugs and my own mind and didn't need to fear them both so much, nor did I need to dwell so damn hard on what the drugs I've taken *might* have done to my brain. Soon thereafter I eventually found an MDA/MDMA mixture and took that a handful of times, all with absolutely fantastic, glowing, euphoric, visual experiences that would leave me feeling even BETTER than I did before. I noticed, oddly enough, that every time I took that MDA, I would feel less 'damaged' from that one MDMA+duster experience in the weeks following the MDA roll. I would also feel a similar 'enlightening' after mushroom or 2c-e trips, as if I was 'moving on' that little bit more from that traumatizing, life-changing experience I had a few years ago.

So, I don't know if this answers your question, but in short, yes I feel like a good mushroom trip might aid you in moving past your post-MDMA depression. I'd start with a low dose though, and work your way up. If by chance you end up having a bad trip, you don't want it to be an intense one because it could seriously mindfuck you in the sensitive state you're already in. Treat your mind and brain like a broken leg at this point. You need to be rolling around in a wheel chair or using crutches, putting your leg up, resting it, nursing it, not putting too much pressure on it, let it heal, and you'll be back out there running touchdowns before you know it. :) It's just another body part, it heals, it moves on, surprisingly resiliently too! Take vitamins, eat good food, get rest, sleep well, exercise, drink lots of water, avoid drugs, and involve yourself in activities with others that do not involve drug use or anything that reminds you of MDMA.

After rolling a few more times, getting into and out of opiates, trying this and that, I eventually put MDMA on the shelf again and didn't touch it for a very long time simply to allow myself to recover completely. Eventually, I finally got to a point where I can honestly say I've moved on and don't feel like I have damaged myself and that I am perfectly ok with saying goodbye to MDMA and never touching it again. I can say that I'm happy, and mean it. Once at this point, and have been there for a while, I decided one final book-closing roll was in order, especially seeing how I had a little bit of very pure, tested molly left. So, for Valentine's Day, my girl and I planned a stay-cation in downtown Seattle, book a sweet hotel, went to a cool techno show and dropped a cap of this molly, both of us with the understanding and intention for this to be our last and final experience with MDMA forever. It was a very subtle roll seeing how my girl and I had to split ~150mg, however it was smooth, fun, enjoyable, and we had a great weekend with each other after that night. We both agreed that we felt good about closing the casket on MDMA and there's a real special feeling that I can't describe, but it's almost like the feeling you'd get the day that you can finally honestly say you're over a girl you've been heartbroken about for years. :)

You're not permanently damaged. Just keep reminding yourself of that. It's very rare that someone sustains permanent, irreversible brain damage from MDMA use. Hang in there man!! :)

Keep us posted.
 
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Hey I've been recovery from mdma abuse for a little over 2 years now. Still constantly looking looking for a way to feel like myself again. A litle background story. I'm 24 now and I abused it 2 years ago. Took about 30-50 pills in a 6 month span. Like 3 or 4 pills every ther week. Recently got on piracetam about a month ago and it helps a lot but its still not a full recovery. From all th research I've been doing I'm still not sure if a full recovery is possible bit that's what I'm aiming for.

So my question is for FBC I've read almost all ur post to further understand the damages that happened to me. I wanna know how much did you recover? I'm following your methods because it makes the most sense and with theeast tiak of making it worse. You said you were gonna ry ou mushrooms because it targets he prefeontal cortex (something like that) pls keepme updated on how that goes; and y
fo yu think its possible to obtain full recovery. Thank you and good luck to everyone._
 
Hey I've been recovery from mdma abuse for a little over 2 years now. Still constantly looking looking for a way to feel like myself again. A litle background story. I'm 24 now and I abused it 2 years ago. Took about 30-50 pills in a 6 month span. Like 3 or 4 pills every ther week. Recently got on piracetam about a month ago and it helps a lot but its still not a full recovery. From all th research I've been doing I'm still not sure if a full recovery is possible bit that's what I'm aiming for.

So my question is for FBC I've read almost all ur post to further understand the damages that happened to me. I wanna know how much did you recover? I'm following your methods because it makes the most sense and with theeast tiak of making it worse. You said you were gonna ry ou mushrooms because it targets he prefeontal cortex (something like that) pls keepme updated on how that goes; and y
fo yu think its possible to obtain full recovery. Thank you and good luck to everyone._
 
I ate 5 grams of mushrooms after no sleep from an amphetamine binge, worked like a fucking charm. Felt like a human being again and went to sleep fine that night
 
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