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Research Chemical Safety

Unless anyone can cite sources about the deaths from recreational use of AET, AMT, 5-MeO-AMT, 2C-T-7, or whatever else you're claiming kills people, please refrain. If you can't back it up with a newspaper article about the deaths where it mentions the drug was identified by the autospy, it doesn't count.
 
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hello, mdma is neurotoxic

until you have burned a lot of your neurons (and i mean a lot) the brain works fine

aet has got fatal side effects that were why it never was made a medicine

amt sounds alright but anything that acts as an maoi puts me off especially when the reason that it works is due to its similarity to serotonin (as in all tryptamines no matter how far from the 5htp molecule in structure they are)
 
Coolio said:
You're put off by tryptamines in general?
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no just ones that have maoi properties-ive got a greedy desire for 4acodmt at the moment never had it but it sounds lush.=D

i was gonna go for amt but many things put me off the idea number one being maoi+serotonin pretender (possible reason why it causes so much nausea)
 
I prefer AMT to 4-AcO-DMT. I consider them both completely safe though, and probably if any changes are produced in the human brain, they could be considered positive in effect.
 
why is it preferable? as a substitue for mdma effects as i wanted a short lasting euphoric very visual trip to complement 2ci in combo format. apparently 4acodmt feels on the comeup like mdma, and i thought the 2ci and 4acodmt might give a candyflipp feel like mushrooms do with 2ci
 
I consider both AMT and 4-AcO-DMT to both be very nice at the correct dosage levels. It would be a bad idea to take 10x the normal dose of AMT at one time, though.

And yes, the events to which I referred earlier involving AMT and two unfortunate college students did indeed make the newspaper. I have no desire to make up some tragic story for no reason.
 
I guess it's in the library. You'll have to forgive me for not clipping the article out and saving it for posterity.
 
Rectify said:
My dealer had two other customers die after taking ten AMT-laced sugar cubes thinking they were acid.

Please don't tell me you have the audacity to sit here and tell me that these AMT deaths didn't happen, that my dealer is not smart enough to know which drug he ordered he ordered off the internet, or that I can't tell the difference between AMT and 5-MeO-AMT. I took the sugar cubes myself on several different occasions and they were most certainly AMT, not 5-MeO-AMT.
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You've gotta realize that you're accusing others of supporting ungrounded opinions, while using anecdotes and failing to cite any evidence yourself. It's difficult to have an intelligent discussion this way. Hammilton is one of the most informed and knowledgable posters in ADD, but you seem to dismiss his conclusions in favor of your personal agenda. MDMA is not a perfectly benign drug for all the reasons mentioned above. Many of the psychedelic research chemicals have a very good safety profile with a few exceptions, including 5-MeO-AMT and 2C-T-7. That being said, more research is needed in the area of research chemical safety.

Rectify said:
The most important factor in evaluating drug safety is always lethality. Period.
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It is important, but memory impairment and mood disturbance are other things that I put into the equation when considering a drug's safety profile. It's a rather narrow perspective to draw conclusions regarding drug safety solely based on lethality figures.
 
Coolio said:
I prefer AMT to 4-AcO-DMT. I consider them both completely safe though, and probably if any changes are produced in the human brain, they could be considered positive in effect.
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I doubt aMT's safety, since it is a monoamine releaser, just like MDMA, although it isn't as strong in that aspect.

That said, I would guess it'ld be alot safer, but completely?

I ran a quick search through pubmed, but I couldn't find much about the neurotoxicity of aMT. Does anyone have data regarding this?
 
For the most part MDMAs neurotoxicity isn't liked to it's monoamine releasing activity but because of pro-oxidant metabolites like the potent alpha-methyl dopamine conjugates that are formed.
 
^I was under the impression that neurotoxicity was largely mediated by excess monoamine release and uptake into serotonergic neurons. AET and p-chloroamphetamine are neurotoxic, yet they cannot form quinone adducts. Excess dopamine, OTOH, can form reactive quinones and cause oxidative damage itself. I'm guessing it's a mixed picture.
 
FWIW...

I can't speak from as deeply-rooted chemical knowledge as some of you guys, but I definitely can speak from experience...

Of all of the research chemical "families" out there, the 2C-x's certainly seem to be the safest-feeling/least-negative-effects of the RC-categorized drugs. The DOx, on the other hand, seem to have the longest-lasting side-effects and also be dangerous in that they are so often passed off as LSD that someone could easily cross the line from high-dose to dead-dose.

My first experience with a 2C-x was with 2C-E, and not knowing proper dosing (this was years ago and I was an idiot), I went ahead and took around 75-90mg. It was pure, obtained from a chemist who made it personally, and I have never tripped harder in my life. The worst side effects were a tight-feeling-chest and brain-zaps the next day, as well as a dissociative state (at times during the trip) that I've never noticed on lower doses.

With DOB, DOM, or DO-whatever, I ALWAYS have bad experiences. Usually this can be in part attributed to my being told I'm getting LSD-25 and I end up paying way too much for some BS RC, but regardless... These RC's last MUCH longer (as long as 34hrs for me on 5 hits of DOB, unknown precise dosage), feel much more "taxing" on the body, and leave me wicked-depressed for up to two weeks following usage.

That's just my $0.02, as I don't want to get into the PMA/2C-T-7/etc discussion; too many acronyms.
 
nleksan said:
The DOx, on the other hand, seem to have the longest-lasting side-effects and also be dangerous in that they are so often passed off as LSD that someone could easily cross the line from high-dose to dead-dose.
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I could be wrong on this, but I believe that the only recorded deaths on the DO-X series have been with DOB and Bromodragonfly (aka DOB-dragonfly).

Of course, this is likely a function of sheer luck; given the DO-X's potency and vasoconstrictive properties as a group, it's likely just a matter of time before some poor soul ingests 100 mg of DOC and winds up in a coffin.
 
Hammilton said:
For the most part MDMAs neurotoxicity isn't liked to it's monoamine releasing activity but because of pro-oxidant metabolites like the potent alpha-methyl dopamine conjugates that are formed.
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I shouldn't post intoxicated ever. Of course that plays a role in it's toxicity.
 
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