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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Requesting help with addiction.

Beware NHS mental health services as well. My friend's psychotherapist shared all his drug info with his GP, despite the drug use being in the past and unrelated to his present problems.
 
I think a big part of the problem is the inconsistencies betwixt and between GP surgeries, DSPs and any other medical interventions one may require. In short, it's little more than the proverbial postcode lottery. Outcomes vary widely across the country. I've personally never had a problem... Aside from the chronic pain thing admittedly and that is at least as much of a postcode lottery and then some so... Could be related but frankly was never gonna happen from Day 1 anyway. YMMV, as always, but I remain firmly in favour of honesty every step of the way.
 
Hi Fermonos, UK based here also.

Shocking conduct from your Doctor, credit to you for being strong enough to share with your GP - unfortunately he/she has probable documented that on your medical records but it's done now.

There is an organisation called UKNA (narcotics anonymous) .. never used them myself but i think they follow similar principles to AA .. Do a Google search and they'll come up, make contact .. even if they're not for you you will at least get to speak with others who can relate to you and your feelings .. the peer to peer support from those sorts of organisations are a massive help to a lot of people.

Stay safe
 
Don't think that's quite true about the black mark thing...have been engaged with drugs services, been to rehab, received methadone/subs in the past and now receive a script for dhc for chronic back pain. Which is legitimate by the way. I've had to be up front with docs but I know the dhc works to keep me more functional and not limping about each day and I've not had many issues in continuing it.
 
I fucking hate Twelve-Step programs of the "% anonymous" variety with every fibre of my being :X They are a comfidence trick designed to lure vulnerable people into christianity or, no better, islam. As for their effectiveness, it would be supremely difficult to devise a program of treatment more likely to result in failurr than to pretend that you are a miserable, wretched sinner with no self-control and must surrender yourself to some totally unspecified Higher Power (which they usually even remember not to refer to explicitly as Jesus or Allah). Not that they have any interest in actually curing you of your addiction; just signing up more bodies to try and save enough loyalty points to get themselves into Alton Fucking Towers for Dead People when their time comes around.

A genuinely cured alcoholic would be capable of drinking sensibly, socially. And this does really happen. (But very rarely.) All you usually ever hear about are those who embark on twelve-step programs and then enter a vicious cycle of relapse and self-loathing, often with a plea for more money into the bargain, as though they simply have not yet found a triangle whose angles add up to something other than 180° yet but there must be one out there if they spend enough money looking for it.

A twelve-step program is marginally less successful as a therapeutic intervention than no intervention at all, just simple reliance on the power of the patient's own mind with no special support network in place. And come the revolution, the Twelve-Step Leaders will find themselves against the same wall as the Architects of Prohibition. If someone's collecting a list of twelve-step casualties, we can read their names out loud as well .....
 
I didn't think NA was that bad. Got the ride out of it. Didn't work though, still fked. Started on codiene as well... Engaged with DP's, did 6 weeks inpatient. Recently got all my medical records and yup, 2008 a square with a black cross in it with 'addictive personality' ticked also a couple of years later, 'terated for addiction to sleeping tablets and pain medication' (diazies and codiene).

It hasn't effected any prescribing though. I still get 5mg diaz a day and 30mg (going up to 50mg) of Vyvanse (dexaphetamine). Luckly I don't have any pain coditions, but following a major operation last year (post rehab et all) was in hopital on a self-administered morphine gulg bucket for a week and oxy's for 2, before being cut loose with a party bag of 120 30mg DHC's and a script for 6 weeks of tramadol (that I didn't even bother to cash in)

As for not being able to get life insurance, to be honest, that's somebody else's problem
 
BecomingJulie said:
I fucking hate Twelve-Step programs of the "% anonymous" variety with every fibre of my being :X They are a comfidence trick designed to lure vulnerable people into christianity or, no better, islam. As for their effectiveness, it would be supremely difficult to devise a program of treatment more likely to result in failurr than to pretend that you are a miserable, wretched sinner with no self-control and must surrender yourself to some totally unspecified Higher Power (which they usually even remember not to refer to explicitly as Jesus or Allah). Not that they have any interest in actually curing you of your addiction; just signing up more bodies to try and save enough loyalty points to get themselves into Alton Fucking Towers for Dead People when their time comes around.

A genuinely cured alcoholic would be capable of drinking sensibly, socially. And this does really happen. (But very rarely.) All you usually ever hear about are those who embark on twelve-step programs and then enter a vicious cycle of relapse and self-loathing, often with a plea for more money into the bargain, as though they simply have not yet found a triangle whose angles add up to something other than 180° yet but there must be one out there if they spend enough money looking for it.

A twelve-step program is marginally less successful as a therapeutic intervention than no intervention at all, just simple reliance on the power of the patient's own mind with no special support network in place. And come the revolution, the Twelve-Step Leaders will find themselves against the same wall as the Architects of Prohibition. If someone's collecting a list of twelve-step casualties, we can read their names out loud as well .....
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Wowzers Julie, that was quite some condemnation there
Twelve step programmes don't work for everybody, true, but for many people, they have turned their lives around
Very long story short, but I attended NA & AA for a few years a long time ago at a point in my life when I knew I was about to lose everything because of my heroin & crack addiction & I was at a wretched & desperate point

For me personally, attending meetings, doing what was suggested & working the 12 steps, completely removed my obsession with drugs & didn't use drugs or alcohol for 4 years
Despite the fact that I left and now drink & take drugs (Luckily, the heroin urge has never returned....every cloud) to an unhealthy level, what I learned there about how to behave, treat other people, & basically not be a dick, totally changed my outlook and morals and I'll never regret that I had that experience as I take a lot of the positives with me still (and am aware if I'm being a dick, instead of thinking I'm the only one who isn't!)

The 'Higher Power' concept is unspecified as it's up to you what it can be, it could even be the other clean people in the group, but I went all cosmic & chose the moon and nobody even tried to lure me into Christianity...

Yes I totally baulked at the language & the expectations at first, but when that craving went, I didn't fucking care what I had to do to remain free of that craving, because it was such a relief...

Anyway, not going to go on, but twelve step programmes have been the saving of many & the grim nemesis of many others and are worth approaching with an open mind, if only to find out that it's not for you
 
I also agree with the rapid buprenorphine taper. I was on it for 10 years and it took me a year to taper off. Problem is when the use becomes mentally addictive, habitual, a lifestyle it is so easy to fall right back into it. You can taper from the codeine, the heroine is a whole nother ball of wax.
 
Sharapovafistpump said:
I didn't think NA was that bad. Got the ride out of it. Didn't work though, still fked. Started on codiene as well... Engaged with DP's, did 6 weeks inpatient. Recently got all my medical records and yup, 2008 a square with a black cross in it with 'addictive personality' ticked also a couple of years later, 'terated for addiction to sleeping tablets and pain medication' (diazies and codiene).

It hasn't effected any prescribing though. I still get 5mg diaz a day and 30mg (going up to 50mg) of Vyvanse (dexaphetamine). Luckly I don't have any pain coditions, but following a major operation last year (post rehab et all) was in hopital on a self-administered morphine gulg bucket for a week and oxy's for 2, before being cut loose with a party bag of 120 30mg DHC's and a script for 6 weeks of tramadol (that I didn't even bother to cash in)

As for not being able to get life insurance, to be honest, that's somebody else's problem
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I'm pleased to hear that black cross didn't work against you mate. TBH though, if you were actually denied any meds you needed for a pathological condition because if it then you would have grounds to sue because that is a big no-no.

Denying someone pain relief when they are in agony just because they have previously had an addiction to opiates is expressly forbidden in medicine.

I know personally, if someone answers a pain score test and gives a high enough number, I always give them morphine unless it's really blatantly obvious that they are taking the piss and lying through their teeth...even then, I'd still probably give them entanox or something.

One point that is worth mentioning is that someone who repeateely calls 999 and demands an ambulance for "excruciating pain" when it's clear they are full of shit and simply morphine seeking will get a flag placed on their address and this will show up on the ambulances terrafix on the way to the job. Even then though, if they present with something that is obvious (like a broken bone or similar trauma) then they would still get morphine.

Pancreatitis is a common favourite condition thst people invent for the purposes of morphine seeking and I'll admit it is hard to tell when someone is genuine or not...but if rather give 10mg of IV morphine to someone who doesn't need it than leave someone who does in pain just because some people have been known to lie to get doctors/nurses/paramedics etc. to give them drugs
 
Hello there fermonos! Well done for making the first step by admitting and accepting you have a problem and are taking responsibility by researching the potential avenues and options you can now take... as it has already been posted addiction and recovery is very much a journey and is different for each invidual but you have already taken the first step and it appears you have a good insight that you are concerned that your codeine addiction will eventually lead to heroin addiction and you have already tried it once soyou are in a good place to quit while your ahead!

I am recovering from a long-term heroin addiction and it will eventually take everything away from you and can lead you in a life of desperation and despair that no one deserves. You will lose everything if you carry on with heroin use - it is inevitable (just some friendly advice from a recovery addict)!

There are a variety of options for you out there for you but my first advice would be to contact and start to engage with your local drug and alcohol services. I’m shocked that your GP wasnt able to signpost you to your local addiction services.... Perhaps have a look online for your local service and you can usually self refer. Here you can be properly assessed, discuss your options and consider what treatment or support is best suited for you but make sure that you are able to be involved in the planning and implementation of your care based on your situation as well as your own personal preferences. I am also UK based but there should be an addictions service for your local area, town or borough depending on where you are located. You could even try a different (more aware) GP as there will definitely be at least one service for your area.

There are a few options for assisting your recovery include: opiate replacement therapy (ORT) (buprenorphine might be a better option than methadone in this situation but perhaps do some research along side professional and medical advice) - the disadvantages include that you will get to to know your pharmacists very well as you will initially be require to collect your medication 6 days of the week and this can be a big inconvenience especially if you have employment, your pharmacist is a significant distance away or other responsibilities in your life. Secondly, some people find the withdrawal more difficult, particularly with methadone, as these drugs are long-lasting the withdrawal symptoms can persist for quite some time.

I am currently on methadone and have been on it for around two years now but I was a heavy heroin and crack user (£100 to £150 a day) but it has been instrumental to regaining much needed stability in my life so I can slowly start to rebuild all the bridges I have burnt. I still have a long way to go but I have not used heroin in over 20 months now! I had tried many detoxes, rehabs and abstinence-based programs but I continued to relapse. I know I still need to come off of my methadone and I know it won’t be easy but I also had a benzo addiction which I have recently discontinued so I am still very much recovering from that and would like to put a bit more distance from my benzo nightmare so that I don’t relapse when I eventually come off my methadone.

Like I said everyone is different with regards to methadone and buprenorphine so I recommend speaking to your drug advisor to see what your options are but for some people these medications have been life-saving and as (for me) they gave me the stability that the chaos of addiction took away so I could start to work on my issues and problems. This shift gave me a great deal of time and dealing with isolation alongside my mental health issues has been extremely challenging. Sometimes it feels like you may be getting worse before you get better but it takes practice and experience to start learning to sit with difficult and challenging emotions and feelings after being numbed for so long.

Buprenorphine and methadone can be used as part of maintainance and continued long-term or as part of a rapid taper perhaps over a week or two to assist your detox. After detox there is the options of residential rehab (anywhere between 6 weeks to 6 months and even longer and this can be particularly useful if you have been using for a long time and have been living a chaotic and high risk lifestyle to support your habit and this alsotake you away from the community where your life was controlled by addiction and you can start to develop healthy coping mechanisms but again there is the same issue depending on your financial situation and whether or not you can be accepted for funding.

It is important to note that most in-patient rehabilitation are abstinence based and often work to the 12 step ideology preparing you to live you life free of all substances (alcohol, benzos, cannabis ect.). That is why they often take patients in straight after detox which is generally a shorter admission (2 to 6 weeks).

You could even gradually start reducing your intake of codeine and this can also be done in an inpatient detox facility (if you get the funding or have enough money to pay to do so - if you need funding this is not guaranteed and there may also be quite a long waiting list) or this can be done at home or in the community with or without the support from addiction services but this method does not have particularly good success rate both in the short-term or long-term and is associated with higher levels of lapses and relapses. But you could attempt to reduce your dose by a very small amount to see how you feel and take it from there?

Your local addiction service may state that counselling may be a necessity requirement if you are collecting your prescription be it codeine or buprenorphine (Subutex/ Suboxone) and routine urine screening to monitor your drug use. This can be very important and helpful to find out and deal with the issues and problems that caused you to start using in the first place and developing healthy coping mechanisms and strategies.

I must stress that it is really important to develop strong and positive support networks to avoid lapses and relapses as they are extremely common particularly in early recovery. This may be through your local service or via peer support such as AA/NA or SMART groups. Have a look at their websites and there are groups all over the country and there are even online meetings throughout the week usually in the evenings so you don’t even need to leave the house to access this support. The positive thing is that these groups are free and only accept a voluntary donation if you are able to pay - there’s no problem or pressure if you can’t. Not everyone finds these groups helpful and there is a stigma with individuals on ORT as these groups are very much abstinence based so you need to find out what works for you. There are also interactive apps for your smart phone, tablet or android such as Breaking Free which can also be helpful.

Another thing is to be aware that some people may start to substitute their initial drug of choice with other drugs, alcohol and /or unhealthy behaviours if they have not dealt with their underlying addiction problem. I know this from personal experience so that’s why I stress the importance of health support networks. Also you mentioned that you are also using Alprazolam (Xanax)... what are your thoughts about the impact this is having on your life and if you are considering stopping your use. I would definitely recommend to start focusing on just one substance at a time but it is something to consider if this is also effecting your physical, psychological, social and financial wellbeing and stability.

There is some good advice in previous posts here but this is some of the help and support that is out there that I can think of at the moment. The journey is different for everyone and it’s about finding out what works for you so you can regain your life from addiction. I wish you all the best and keep posted. Forums like BL are also useful for information as well as following the stories and experiences from others who have been in the same boat. Take care fella and good luck. Keep posted!
 
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Just to reiterate, you are best NOT getting caught up in the drug services. It's a last resort only. My sister in law works for our local DSP, and I'm telling you now, most of the staff don't give a fuckin shit about your addiction. Most of them are there purely as a stepping stone to advance their career in mental health. They work out of text books and haven't got a clue about drug addiction in the real world. Obviously, there are some good ones out there, but they are few and far between. Taper off the codeine and don't substitute for anything stronger.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Just to reiterate, you are best NOT getting caught up in the drug services. It's a last resort only. My sister in law works for our local DSP, and I'm telling you now, most of the staff don't give a fuckin shit about your addiction.
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I can understand what you are trying to say but here in the UK funding is continuing to be leached from mental health services and particularly addiction services and this has an incredible impact for the care of people under these services. Fermonos stated that his GP was not of any help with regards to his addiction problem and I gather that he was not even directed or referred to the appropriate service that is better suited to help.

It was clear from the start that fermonos was despondent when attempting to seek help for his addiction problem from his GP so the next obvious step would be to at least be assessed by addiction services who, which although not a perfect service, it would seem that getting at least an assessment would not be such a bad thing and can signpost the him to other services and treatment or care provided by that service as the specialise in addiction... it seems that Fermonos was pretty much dismissed by his GP and in this case I firmly believe that it would be a good idea to at least go for an assessment from addiction services to see what his options are at least.

I’m not recommending that he should commence ORT, commit to a detox or residential program or gain access to councillors and support groups. I was just trying to describe some of his potential options. I reiterate that addiction and individual’s journey to recovery is a very individual thing but he should at least find out what options he has out there from a service that specialises with addiction and I was just listing some of his options to think about along with the potential disadvantages.

I have engaged with several addiction services across the UK, and yes I admit some are better than others but never the less these services have signposted me to other relevant service (MH, complex care team, dual diagnosis), prescribed various treatment as well as informing me of the various support that is out there. This is critical... where else is he going to get help from his addiction.... it’s not going to be his GP that is now obvious.

It was clear from the start that fermonos was looking for help to hopefully battle his addiction, this was not successful from his GP so where else is he supposed to receive an detailed assessment so that care can be planed, implemented and evaluated.

I have had a satisfactory experience from my current addiction service, more so than from mental health services. I don’t think it is fair to demonise all addiction services like you have done as, although these services are far from perfect, it seems like it is a wise idea to enquire to find out what his options are from ongoing support and treatment from a service that specialises and deals with addiction (assessment, treatment, referrals and so on). I would highly recommend that you should at least give it a chance from people that have knowledge and experience of addiction and can lead you to your treatment options as well as ongoing support which is critical.
 
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F.U.B.A.R. said:
Just to reiterate, you are best NOT getting caught up in the drug services. It's a last resort only. My sister in law works for our local DSP, and I'm telling you now, most of the staff don't give a fuckin shit about your addiction. Most of them are there purely as a stepping stone to advance their career in mental health. They work out of text books and haven't got a clue about drug addiction in the real world. Obviously, there are some good ones out there, but they are few and far between. Taper off the codeine and don't substitute for anything stronger.
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I agree mate. DSPs in the UK are notorious for not giving a fuck. I've heard horror stories about peoples scripts being cancelled for missing 2 days at the chemist and then going on a 2-3 month waiting list to be seen again....

I understand services being overstretched but in what way does this help the patient? Tolleracnce doesn't disappear in 2 days and there has to be a way around sending the patient to the back of the queue and basically saying "get yourself back on the smack for now and well see you again in a few months"

Not to mention the fact that going on bupe or methadone for a codeine habbit is hugely uneccesary...
 
There are obvious some addiction services that are better than others but unfortunately addiction servicesfollowed by mental health services are notoriously underfunded thus creating limited resources, longer waiting times for appointments, a continuing decrease in the number of groups or training which ultimately impacts the vulnerable service users. Discussing funding and improvements for addiction services is not a very attractive issue, particularly with this government, so many MP continue to fail the need to highlight this is as it appears that addiction rates are rising sharply in the UK.

In my previous post I was trying to give some examples that are out the for you the that include addiction services.. I don’t think it’s fair to complete dismiss all of these services that provide help for people with addictions. (as OP has mention). It would not do you want harm to get an assessment done of your needs and take it from there. That does necessarily mean you will leave with a methadone or buprenorphine script!

I would suggest going to your local service and explain your situation and take it from there and see what options you have!
 
100% you need to get some help for looking into why you are using the codeine (I know its become a dependence but this stage is essential to prevent a relapse). As for the physical withdrawal from Codeine. I have to say I suggest doing it cold turkey. It will suck for you....but it will also be benefitial i think. A rapid bup taper is gonna take 2 weeks roughly. Thats double what your cold turkey is gonna take. And I highly doubt a UK physician will consider opiate replacement therapy for you. Though I may be wrong.
Don't bother taking kratom/any other opiate...All you are doing is delaying things. Sort out the reasons why you used and that should sort things out. The last thing you wanna do is start substituting codeine for kratom...then from kratom to another opiate and so on. It CAN be a nasty little trip from the child-like dreams of codeine enhancing ones perspective in life to being an utter slave to daily opiate use.
 
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