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Request for feedback: Draft of PMA FAQ

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Orlando

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Feb 26, 2002
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What is PMA?
PMA stands for para-methoxyamphetamine. It is also known as 4 MA, or 4-methoxyamphetamine.
PiHKAL Entry

What is PMA’s legal status?
All information for this section was taken from Erowid’s Drug Law & Policy page
Australia – Schedule III (2002)
Canada – Schedule III (2002)
UK – Class A (2001)
US – Schedule I (2001)

How does PMA work?
PMA causes a release of serotonin and also acts as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. This dual action contributes to the dangerous nature of PMA.
Citations:
London Toxicology Group - scroll to “Drug Interactions”
MAPS article
Compilation of info – this is mentioned at various points, with citations.

What are the effects of PMA?
At low doses (<40mg), PMA will cause stimulation, mild visuals, pupil dilation, nystagmus, altered consciousness, nausea, and elevated body temperature. Basically, it produces many of the same initial effects as MDMA.

At slightly higher doses (60+mg), PMA can cause a sudden and dangerous increase in body temperature, blood pressure, and heart rate.

In what ways is PMA dangerous?
PMA is dangerous in its own right due the sharp dose-response curve that it exhibits - a relatively moderate increase in dose can produce dangerous (and possibly lethal) effects. This, combined with its action as a cardiopulmonary stimulant and MAOI, makes PMA extremely dangerous when taken in combination.

PMA is dangerous in practice because it has been sold in pill form as MDMA. The habit of many MDMA users to consume multiple doses at once is what has lent PMA its “killer” image in recent years.

Several deaths have been associated with PMA sold as MDMA, causing a stir in the media:
Amphetamine derivative fatalities in South Australia--is 'Ecstasy' the culprit
Carolyn (The Glasgow Herald, Australia)
Teen Drug Alert (Chicago Sun-Times, USA)
New, More Dangerous Drug Threatens Teens (Fox News)
Cops Probe Link Between 2 Teens Hallucinogen Deaths (Chicago Tribune, USA)
The Poisoning of Suburbia (Salon.com)
New, Fatal Imported Drug Hits Nightclubs (Orlando Sentinel, USA)
Deadly Form of Ecstasy Seized (The Observer, UK)

Why is PMA being sold as MDMA?
PMA is being sold as MDMA because it is easier and safer to make - the precursors are not as strictly controlled/watched. Also, the effects of a low PMA dose can be confused with the effects of MDMA. This makes PMA seem to be a good substitute for manufacturers who do not want to make MDMA.

How does PMA react to various testing kits?
Note – this is the authoritative list of reactions to reagents. This list has been confirmed with testing kit retailers and other knowledgeable and trustworthy people.
Marquis – No reaction
Mecke – No reaction
Mandelin – Dark green
Simon – No reaction
Robadope – Reddish/Purple

Has PMA ever been combined with MD__ in the same pill?
YES! PMA has been combined with MDMA in order to fool testing kits while minimising manufacturing costs.

A way to combat this is by using the EZ-Test Xtreme (or other comparable testing kit), which combines two reagents – Simon’s and Robadope’s. The Simon’s reagent will indicate the presence of MD__; while Robadope’s will indicate PMA.

Any notion that PMA is added to pills in order to enhance the effects of MDMA is wrong. As stated earlier, PMA in combination is even more dangerous than PMA alone.

Sources and other PMA-related links:
Erowid’s PMA Vault
London Toxicology Group
Lycaeum’s PMA Page
PiHKAL Entry
MAPS article abstract
A compilation of information
 
Not sure about describing the Mandelin reaction as Dark Green is correct, I've usually seen it described as Orange to Green. Who's list did you go off for that?
 
This, combined with its action as a cardiopulmonary stimulant and MAOI, makes PMA extremely dangerous when taken in combination.
Click to expand...
Might want to elaborate what it means by combination - basically in combination with any amphetamines. Maybe something too about the fact that most PMA deaths have been found to have been drug combinations.
 
Orlando might be away, so let me just add that he directly contacted some pill test kit makers (including Ez-Test) for the information about color changes. Also, it might be obvious but this proposed document would replace the two existing PMA threads in the FAQ section.
 
johnboy – I went from the results given by EZ-Test, although this page indicates an altogether different reaction. Could you point me to someone/something that describes it as orange to green?

babydoc – OK, I could do that.
 
orlando: this is a problem as the people who make Mandelin and give that reaction (CSA, Ingredient45) both have fucked up, impossible to get information from-sites. (fuck flash!)

Someone back me up, when Mandelin was just E2 the reaction was listed as going from green to orange, or was it the other way around? I can't remember, but I also would be happy to defer to other sources as AFAIK this has never been verified. Even EZ Tests site says that their reaction has not been verified. The reason for this is PMA is something you can't order from a test lab easily, so none of the manufacturers have.
 
The story evolves-> CS indicated that Mandelin will go green to red to brown in the presence of PMA. I’ve sent them an email asking them to comment on the basis for that statement. I’ll keep you updated on their response.

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never used Mandelin on a pill that contained PMA. I’ll defer to anyone who has used Mandelin on a pill that they know (or at least reasonably suspect) contained PMA, but it seems that such a person is difficult to find.
 
Orlando said:
Has PMA ever been combined with MD__ in the same pill?
YES! PMA has been combined with MDMA in order to fool testing kits while minimising manufacturing costs.

Any notion that PMA is added to pills in order to enhance the effects of MDMA is wrong. As stated earlier, PMA in combination is even more dangerous than PMA alone.

[]
Click to expand...

these seem to contradict each other?

the fact that it more dangerous combined with mdma doesn't mean is doesn't happen.....

my 2 cents, correct me if im wrong
 
I’m confused – I thought I was way clear on the fact that it happens. I added that bit after someone voiced concern over a rumour floated in this thread that mentioned PMA being added to pills as a roll-enhancing feature.

The point being made is that PMA is added to pills, but not to make them “better;” and that it would be foolish to thing otherwise because the combination of PMA and another stimulant is more dangerous than PMA alone. Is that less muddled?
 
I suggest:
Has PMA ever been combined with MDMA in the same pill?
YES! PMA has been combined with MDMA in order to fool testing kits while minimising manufacturing costs.

However, the notion that PMA is combined with MDMA in order to enhance the positive effects or 'make you roll harder' is wrong; as stated earlier, PMA in combination is even more dangerous than PMA alone.
Click to expand...

BigTrancer :)
 
Great work :)

From what I've gathered, the people I've spoken to who believe this common PMA myth (as stated in
this thread ) probably aren't just the mainstream clubbers, but more or less people who don't seem to have done any research into the issue, yet have been in and around the pills scene for a long time (either through dealing or close contact with dealers) - which to them warrants their understanding as correct.

I would've thought that finding PMA in pills is quite rare, though my opinion is only based on how little I've seen warnings about it on Bluelight forums. I basically brought up the issue to ensure that people understand that a combination of MDMA and PMA can be extremely dangerous, and when somebody states that a pill yields a better experience because it has PMA in it, that they are wrong.

This FAQ clearly states how dangerous PMA is, and hopefully it'll help to discourage such rumours.
 
Orlando -> Wow.. comprehensive as hell. will spread the word once your final FAQ is complete. :):):)

My 2 cents worth (this applies esp. to ppl in Oz) ...how do we get this FAQ and info to the concerned parties? My perception is that folks in WA and the Eastern states are generally wary of PMA, however, SA seems rather "ignorant" and there seems to myths out there which encourages usage of PMA, "PMA taken together with MDxx increases the intensity... etc...".

not too familiar with SA but are there any harm minimisation grps that we can get in touch with to broadcase this msg? AND make this msg stick?

Clarification Needed : isn't 4MA the chemical compound of "ice"? or what was known as "ice" before Crystal Meth came along? I read the answer somewhere bfore but its freaking 1am and can't be arsed searching thru erowid (guilty as charged for being lazy... but i figured with so many subject matter experts on board...)
 
GoNeGoOsE – I haven’t known PMA/4MA to be called “ice.” Maybe it’s a regional thing, or maybe I just missed it.

As for proliferation of information, anyone is of course welcome to reproduce and distribute the FAQ. I don’t really frequent any of the social forums, so I’m not sure who is in SA.
 
Clarification: 4-MA = 4-methoxyamphetamine = para-methoxyamphetamine = PMA... This is a correct labelling.

4-MAR is merely an abbreviation we lazily use to refer to 4-methylaminorex = 'ice/shabu'. It's a common error, to confuse 4-MA and 4-MAR, however they're entirely different drugs, with different effects. Ice/Shabu is so much the confusing drug, it constantly gets confused for meth due to similar appearance/effects, or pma simply through naming conventions.

BigTrancer :)
 
OK, this thread seems to have run its course. If there is anyone would care to expand upon or add feedback, feel free to do so. The FAQ should be posted in the next few days.
 
The finished FAQ is now posted in the FAQ forum! If anyone has any additional comments or issues, please email the FAQ team at [email protected] or contact Orlando with a PM. Thanks to everyone for their feedback!

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