Lysergamides Repeated very high dose LSD trips (psychospiritual effects)

[Foreigner]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'll try to address some key points below.

About tolerance (or being acclimatized to higher doses): the first time this friend did acid he accidentally did 5000ug because the dealer told him the wrote dose per tab, and later corrected this mistake with the right info. He was able to let go and not have any resistance, despite the extreme intensity. Then he went out shopping the next day and ran all of his errands. So, this person has been doing high doses from the start.

What are you really concerned about when it comes to your friend? Are you worried that the two of you are drifting apart because his use of acid is giving him an unusual perspective that you do not share? Or do you suspect that his views and behavior are making/will make him unhappy?

My friend has always been somewhat of a social outcast. He doesn't want to attend most of the events I go to. He is highly judgmental of other people, probably because they've been judgmental of him. I am concerned that his delusions are a result of his isolation and LSD is magnifying them. He can function in the world to a practical degree but he spends most of his time alone and that concerns me. I'm one of the few lucky people to have an "in" in his life and I'm worried that his delusions are going to isolate him further. I'm very open to esoteric things, but the things he's saying are hard for even me to accept.

How do you think your friend feels about what he's been experiencing? It's not clear from your message whether it's been troubling him or not.

If you want to engage your friend about these experiences he's been having, you could try asking him how he knows that he's communicating with a distinct entity instead of an aspect of his own psyche, and how he evaluates the usefulness of the messages he receives.

My friend seems excited and hopeful. He has also made it clear that he wants to leave planet earth entirely because life here is mundane, boring, and annoying. He even said that last time he met these beings he asked to go with them, but inevitably the experience ended. This leads me to believe it was just a product of tripping and not something that actually happened.

He describes his experiences with vivid recollection and intricate detail. He's gifted with words like that. I have seen really vivid things on LSD too but somehow I always manage to ground myself back in reality after it. It's hard for me to really make an objective assessment of what "reality" is, but there is something axiomatic about knowing that a non-tripping state is your naturally grounded state and that tripping is somewhat a fantasy. My friend seems to think that what happened was very real and is even striving to get back there. Part of me will never give over to the idea that what I'm seeing on LSD is "real", and I think that's what has kept me sane.

The real thing to ask, is "what are the nature of these phenomena"?

I appreciate your persective but I find it a bit too materialist. I see bright red in someone's aura where they have extreme pain, and I know this without any other information. I point it out and they confirm it. I can see when a couple has been fighting, or if they've had sex in the past hour, just by how their auras mesh together. I can tell a fake plant from a real plant by its aura. I can tell when a tree is dead or merely in winter hiberation from its aura. I can tell if a substance is toxic or not based on its aura. I can tell if an animal is about to attack me, or if it will be friendly, based on its aura - even if its physical behaviour seems neutral. Most usefully, I can tell when someone is lying because of how their aura changes.

I have gone through the whole "I might be crazy" thing, and it's been through experimentation that I know I'm not. And I have seen auras before I ever knew what drugs were.

Tests have been done on this phenomenon, you can read about a lot of the studies here:
http://weilerpsiblog.wordpress.com/evidence-for-psi/ (Under 'evidence' section)

The site also addresses Randi's Million Dollar challenge and why it's a load of BS.

The problem is not in the testing, but in the conclusions -- that being "psychic" means you have 100% accuracy, or you're a fraud, which is not the case. No psychic has ever been 100%, yet the experimenters set the bar very high, and if no one reaches that bar then they "aren't psychic". If you looked at high-jumping and set the bar very high, and then said that every jumper had to get over that bar in order to meet the criteria, most people would undoubtedly fail. Though, what about people who make it over the bar 50% of the time? Or 60%? Is there not something special happening there? According to the way experiments are currently conducted, no there isn't.

The other thing is that in instances where accuracy has been very high, the experimenters have tried to dismiss it with physical explanations. The reason is that modern science is extremely reliant upon materialism for explanations -- i.e. the brain is the be all and end all of everything. Yet psychic abilities prove non-material phenomena to be real. IMO the two are incompatible, at least in modern science decides to budge on paranormal things -- or hell, even just admitting there is a real connection between mind and body.

Also keep in mind that what you said in your last post about 5ht2a agonism and retinal colour saturation are also theories. Just because you have a theory does not mean you have disproven anything -- you've only given some ideas (which I appreciate). I'm now researching colour saturation because it seems interesting, although it doesn't explain the obvious correlation I've had between what I'm seeing and the nature of the subject I'm observing. Does aura due to colour saturation explain the object's health, vitality, and social intent, in your experience?

(to be continued)

 

[Foreigner]

On the other hand, what if letting it go now means he goes off the deep end later on? It's a tough question, and I think the thing to do is play it whatever way your morality has you do it, keeping in mind that your goal is to help him. Good luck to you both.

That's basically what I'm trying to do. This friend has experienced a lot of rejection and I have to tread lightly or I will be cast out, and then I won't be able to do anything to help him if shit really hits the fan. For now I'm just observing, and trying to make sense of it all.

And once again, the point I'm making is more subtle than you seen able to grasp. If you only take LSD once every 3 months you have a different tolerance to someone who is taking LSD every week for years on end. You don't keep the same tolerance. If you're regularly tripping every week, or every fortnight, even every month after a few weeks/months you'll notice you need a bigger dose to get the same effect. That's just basic human physiology - yes even your physiology sock.

I find LSD very catabolic and it takes me a while to mentally recover after higher doses. I have no evidence for it, but it surely must alter your brain's receptors over time. On paper I've read that you can theoretically trip repeatedly within just a few days, but IME the intensity will be nowhere near the same. This implies to me that there is some kind of down-regulation happening in the brain.

A 1000mic dose the first time you take it is very different to taking a 1000mic dose when you've been taking it every fortnight for 10 years. If he was taking 1000mics with 3 months in between each dose then it would have a far more shattering effect.

I agree with this. The mentally exhaustion alone would be a lot.

 

[Flickering]

Without reading everyone else's responses, because I have to leave soon, I would say: even repeated doses of 1mg+ of LSD will not cause physical damage. However, the sheer mind-bending capacity of such experiences, and the frequency of them, would surely cause some major psychological changes. It's like any experience in life; if it's intense enough, profound enough, it will have an impact on you. And something so universe-altering as extreme-dose LSD will change the way you look at the world.

I'm not a psychologist, but I can say, your friend doesn't sound psychotic, he does however sound like he's started to open doors that should probably stay shut. Which isn't to say I believe in these parallel dimensions or extraterrestrial entities. But to achieve this state of mind with coherence, people tend to spend decades in discipline meditating or doing some other spiritual practice; he is quite forcefully trying to wrench open his third eye. It doesn't sound like he's getting flashbacks to me, it sounds more like he's changed his perception of reality so deeply that that's just the headspace he's in now, all the time. I would have no surprise however if, after several more months of this, it did develop into a lasting or permanent psychosis. The human psyche can only take so much mindfuck.

If he needs LSD or psilocybin (which works just as well) for migraines, he should be able to take them at sub-psychedelic doses and have the same effect. No need to take a whole milligram of LSD for that.

Hope that helps!

 

[Foreigner]

^ He claims that the migraine effect doesn't work unless he trips out, and because of his quick metabolism he needs higher doses. I can't argue this point because he refuses to listen. He used to take ergotamine before doctors were no longer allowed to prescribe it, and he claims mushrooms do not work + he does not like the associated nausea.

But to achieve this state of mind with coherence, people tend to spend decades in discipline meditating or doing some other spiritual practice; he is quite forcefully trying to wrench open his third eye.

I've thought about this. There's a spiritual diagnosis called kundalini syndrome that I've considered, but it's hard to know.

 

[Ismene]

I find LSD very catabolic and it takes me a while to mentally recover after higher doses. I have no evidence for it, but it surely must alter your brain's receptors over time.

Yeah, taking a high dose every couple of weeks will change how you trip eventually. It might take 3 months or 6 months or even 12 months, but if you're doing it regularly eventually 1000mics will be giving you a trip the same as 250mics would give you if you tripped once every 3 months. That's why the frequency of tripping plays such a massive role in whether or not it's really a "high-dose".

On paper I've read that you can theoretically trip repeatedly within just a few days, but IME the intensity will be nowhere near the same.

True, I think the "you can trip again in 3 days" is just something sockpuppet pulled out of his fanny.

 

[sockpuppet]

edt

 

[Ismene]

LOL - I'm not sure whether you are trying to use Yank vernacular

Yes I used the yank vernacular to make you feel more at home sockpuppet

but I know well that if you want to dose on day two of the festival you just eat a bunch more L than you did on day one, etc etc.

Doesn't work for me that way tho - even if I take twice as much on day two as I did on day one the trip is still massively weaker. Particularly with LSD because the comedown lasts well into the second day anyway.

If YOU have really been eating 1000mcg doses of genuine LSD every fortnight

Come again? When did I say I was eating 1000mics every fortnight? That was what the OP said HIS FRIEND was doing. You are getting totally confused.

and should have some sort of disclaimer in your .sig to warn newbs who might listen to your casual recommendations to take excessive doses in public.

I'm not recomending anyone does it - I'm merely pointing something out about the gentleman in the OP's post. If you take 1000mics every fortnight for 10 years then it isn't a high-dose to you. Most heroin addicts regularly inject doses that would kill a non-user - but the heroin addict barely feels it. To a non-user it would be a very high dose - to a heroin addict it isn't a high dose. Y'follow?

But given that in other posts you clearly indicate you have never experienced a completely immersive or "breakthrough" DMT trip - don't realize that most people start to experience amnesia on higher doses of psilocybin - and don't realize that mescaline sulphate and peyote were widely used by serious psychedelic people in the 1950s and 60s in the US

What is this bullshit sock? You're putting shit in your sock and waving it around now. I've never said anything of the sort. I've had very powerful DMT trips, I don't experience amnesia on high doses of psilocybin and of course peyote was used by certain people in the 60's, don't forget it was me who told you that Huxley used mescaline in the 50's. Don't just make up a bunch of stuff and claim I said it man.

But if you are otherwise unmedicated and are eating 1mg of L and/or 10grams of dried cubes every two weeks

Time out. I've never said I was doing this mate. You've got the wrong end of the stick and proceeded to bash yourself around the head with it.

 

[Freeotrope]

I have a friend who does LSD in excess of 1000ug on a monthly basis, if not twice monthly ...

Hey Foreigner, I just read through this old post and was wondering what happened with your friend. Did he keep dosing these large doses and frequently? What happened to him? Reminds me a little bit of the the "LSD and the Mind of the Universe" book.

 

[pupnik]

the brain is way more complicated than a piano.
what the high dosing friend is headed for is more of the same, or a long path of temperance and abstinent recovery.

for now let us just say that the sustain pedal is perma-pressed

The sustain pedal removes the dampers from the strings, allowing notes to ring out for longer, even when the keys are not held down anymore. That's why it is also called the “damper” pedal. It is rare to find any piece of music or song that doesn't use the sustain pedal.

 

[Foreigner]

Hey Foreigner, I just read through this old post and was wondering what happened with your friend. Did he keep dosing these large doses and frequently? What happened to him? Reminds me a little bit of the the "LSD and the Mind of the Universe" book.

He was able to stop LSD altogether by moving to a remote location where the environment is pristine and his migraines went away. He has to stay there. Civilization has too many fragrances and chemicals.

He says he misses LSD a lot but he doesn't feel comfortable doing it in a remote location all alone.

I myself haven't touched LSD since 2014. I had one final, really epic trip that was a peak experience and then decided it could never be better than that and let it rest. These days I am dabbling with mushrooms but I find I don't like being high anymore. It just doesn't add anything.

 

[Freeotrope]

He was able to stop LSD altogether by moving to a remote location where the environment is pristine and his migraines went away. He has to stay there. Civilization has too many fragrances and chemicals.

He says he misses LSD a lot but he doesn't feel comfortable doing it in a remote location all alone.

I myself haven't touched LSD since 2014. I had one final, really epic trip that was a peak experience and then decided it could never be better than that and let it rest. These days I am dabbling with mushrooms but I find I don't like being high anymore. It just doesn't add anything.

thanks for the update, i like to follow up on some of these older posts. do you know if there were any long term consequences of such high dose and frequent tripping?