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(Remote?) possibility of low-level nitrous oxide use causing cognitive impairment

S

sertra

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Joined
Oct 16, 2012
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My partner and I have been sharing a box or two of bulbs a week (so 5-10 bulbs each, ISI if it matters) for the past few months. Recently, he has been a bit on the fuzzy side- forgetful, disorganised, occasionally struggling to coordinate fairly basic tasks (e.g. going to have a shower but getting dressed first rather than afterwards), delayed processing. This is intermittent rather than constant.

We both consume a reasonable amount of dietary B12, and we're not starving ourselves of oxygen while using the nitrous.

I wouldn't think that this level of use should cause any significant issues, but maybe there is something I'm missing?

We are planning to go to the doctor about this but I'm reluctant to mention the nitrous unless there is any substance to the idea that it could be causing/contributing.

Is it possible 5-10 8g bulbs/week be causing this sort of cognitive impairment? I know it certainly isn't common.
 
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Pretty much any type of drug use over a period of time will cause, if anything, temporary cognitive changes. You can try to go into an in depth scientific analysis as to the hows and whys, but the bottom line is if you've noticed a cognitive change that has occurred seemingly from the nitrous, then you're probably correct.
 
That's not really very informative. Many people use far more and don't have similar cognitive changes so it certainly isn't a case of "will"- (I don't have them, for a start). Cognitive changes like these could be caused by all sorts of things. I am concerned that there is a possibility that it is related to the nitrous, despite the relatively moderate use. I think it would be overreaching to say that it is "seemingly" or "probably" from the nitrous, though.
 
sertra said:
That's not really very informative. Many people use far more and don't have similar cognitive changes so it certainly isn't a case of "will"- (I don't have them, for a start). Cognitive changes like these could be caused by all sorts of things. I am concerned that there is a possibility that it is related to the nitrous, despite the relatively moderate use. I think it would be overreaching to say that it is "seemingly" or "probably" from the nitrous, though.
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How could you possibly say that adverbs with the inherent lack of specificity such as 'seemingly' and 'probably' are 'overreaching' ???
 
Everybody reacts to chemicals differently. The topic of dissociative and brain damage is highly researched with hardly any conclusive evidence. I am merely suggesting to use your intuition, because knowledge probably won't lead you to a concrete solution. I would have your friend see a doctor however, because the symptoms you describe could suggest anything from slightly too much nitrous all the way up to a brain tumor. If you want my honest opinion (which i probably should have given initially, so i aplologize), i wouldn't usually think it to be the nitrous. I have used a lot of nitrous and never experienced anything like that.
 
"Seemingly" and "probably" imply a probability of >50%, which would seem to be unlikely in this case, since there are all sorts of other factors that could be causing or contributing.

We are going to see a doctor. I am reluctant to mention the nitrous up front however, as (at least here) docs seem to be keen to blame any ill you have on past/present use of it, and have no concept of the differences between e.g. solvents and nitrous oxide. I am worried that if this comes out that any investigation will stop there.
 
sertra said:
"Seemingly" and "probably" imply a probability of >50%, which would seem to be unlikely in this case, since there are all sorts of other factors that could be causing or contributing.

We are going to see a doctor. I am reluctant to mention the nitrous up front however, as (at least here) docs seem to be keen to blame any ill you have on past/present use of it, and have no concept of the differences between e.g. solvents and nitrous oxide. I am worried that if this comes out that any investigation will stop there.
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Yeah many doctors are really ignorant to the facts when it comes to drug use. I would encourage your friend to get a CAT Scan, but just that the type of symptoms you describe do seem like the average forgetfulness that happens with dissociative abuse and they do go away with time. If he was experiencing trouble pronouncing words, speaking properly, balancing, or swallowing. Things like that, it's time to get help asap.
 
It doesn't seem likely to me that such impairments would be caused by N2O, but its not impossible.

The symptoms you mentioned could be attributed to a wide range of things from vitamin deficiency, to more serious neurological conditions, so definitely have your friend see a doc.
 
Other than the nitrous oxide, alcohol (20-40ml ethanol approx 4x/week), nothing else. He last used nitrous (5x 8g bulbs) 4 days ago (and then probably a week before that, and then a week before that, and etc.). He might have smoked cannabis once? in the past year, I'm not sure, but not regularly. If it seems likely the nitrous oxide is causing or contributing towards this then, well, I guess it could be? But it just seems that given the level of use, he is having marked symptoms (2-8 hours of memory loss, disorganisation, loss of verbal processing) days later.

What I suspect might be causing some or most of the problem is that he is taking an antidepressant although at very low dose (escitalopram)- he has always been a bit like this but it is so much worse at the moment. Again, it seems like a fairly significant reaction to a tiny dose but maybe? who knows.

(We did go to the doctor today and get a neurology referral, though)
 
Is it possible that this is a result of oxygen deprivation? The body senses oxygen levels by looking at CO2 levels in the blood. Inhaling nitrous removes CO2 from the blood but doesn't replace it with oxygen and as a result the body can be tricked into thinking things are fine when really the brain is suffering damage from low O2.

This is minimal with single balloons is compounded by consecutive ones.

Outside of that I'd say this is pretty odd - nitrous does seem to be able to cause a several hour fuzz when combined with other drugs but generally it's pretty benign and I've never heard of it manifesting as you describe.
 
The effect of oxygen deprivation is cumulative. Nitrous itself is quickly cleared from the blood and does not displace oxygen in appreciable quantities for long.

This is why it's such a widely used anaesthetic in emergency situations.
 
It is done in what I would consider a fairly safe way- one large breath full, then probably at least a minute of regular breathing before the next period without.

I don't think oxygen deprivation is likely to be a major issue since he is unlikely to be without fresh O2 intake for more than 60 sec or so, which is going to be less of a stress on the system than swimming the underwater laps I used to do regularly as part of training.
 
Some bl members were just discussing how holding it in (one large breathful) was a more dangerous way of intaking n2o. They said this increases chance for passing out as your body cannot determine that it is missing oxygen, it registers the lungs as being occupied and doesn't signal the body to redraw ones breath. I presume that if the o2 deprivation is cumulative as mentioned above than the holding in nitrous tech could be significantly more dangerous long term.

It is different from going underwater holding ones breath as when doing this one is holding in or atmospheres mix of gases, not straight nitrous oxide. Unless huffing whippets and then going underwater lol

I say give some time away from whippets to start. If the most he's gone is a week without then the variables contribution can't be assessed at all really. Worth giving a month or two sober a chance I'd say...could notice a drastic increase in his cognitive function after a month who knows.

Best wishes,
TuT
 
What triggers the urge to rebreathe is CO2 levels in the body. Breathing out and breathing in nitrous would replace that urge to breathe for presumably the same time as a lungful of normal air (given C02 buildup), but as long as you'd just taken a breath of air you should have transferred a fair bit- and due to tidal volume of lungs vs. total volume they will still contain a mix of atmospheric gases/what your body has produced/nitrous oxide rather than purely nitrous oxide. It may still be worth as a longer term thing taking half-a-breath, breathing, and half-a-breath?

I just wish I had some concrete knowledge :( I have all sorts of things floating in my head from this to antidepressants to iron (since he donates blood) to B12 (which could be or could be not largely nitrous-related) to maybe regular drinking just doesn't agree with him, or who knows what else.

Thank all of you for your input, any further input is welcomed.
 
sertra said:
What triggers the urge to rebreathe is CO2 levels in the body. Breathing out and breathing in nitrous would replace that urge to breathe for presumably the same time as a lungful of normal air (given C02 buildup), but as long as you'd just taken a breath of air you should have transferred a fair bit- and due to tidal volume of lungs vs. total volume they will still contain a mix of atmospheric gases/what your body has produced/nitrous oxide rather than purely nitrous oxide. It may still be worth as a longer term thing taking half-a-breath, breathing, and half-a-breath?

I just wish I had some concrete knowledge :( I have all sorts of things floating in my head from this to antidepressants to iron (since he donates blood) to B12 (which could be or could be not largely nitrous-related) to maybe regular drinking just doesn't agree with him, or who knows what else.

Thank all of you for your input, any further input is welcomed.
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it could be from blood donating alone. do you take your vitb12 I.M. ?
 
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