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Relation between MDPV and Parkinsonism/Akinesia - DA depletion or neurodegeneration?

Burn it up

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Long story short, in case someone has little time to read the full story:

I smoked about 150-200mg of MDPV throughout a small binge of 26 hours. Half way through I started to experience muscle shacking and some time later imbalance problems and a general lack of motor precision. I was rigid. I also felt pins and needles in my legs. My reflexes are bad.

I went to sleep and woke up 3 hours later unable to go back to sleep. My general motor coordination was horrible: My walking is impaired as I cannot move my ankles. The ankles are perfect, it seems that the signal from the brain is not getting there. I cant feel one half of one of my toes. I also have minor imbalance problems and my moves are clumsy, slow and imprecise. It is difficult to grab food from the fork or type in the computer.

I have not read of this symptoms happening to anybody before. So I am very worried that, instead of getting back to normal soon, this will be a permanent condition.

However the lack of reports on people with akinesia/parkinsonism makes me hope it might solve itself.

Have you ever experienced / heard anything similar? Do you think that MDPV has caused a temporal lack of dopamine in the motor areas of the brain and things will get back to normal?
_______

Now the detailed version:


Hello guys,

I am a bit concerned for my health and motor coordination since the last time I did MDPV, yesterday. I have looked in scientific papers and anecdotal reports from the internet but found no case as mine. Let me explain:

I have been on a short MDPV smoking binge that has lasted for about 26 hours, finishing this Sunday morning. Throughout that time I did not sleep, and had just a few pieces of fruit to eat. I drank plenty of water and took magnesium and vitamin supplements. Also just before the experience started and when I was half way through I took some valium to get ridge of the edginess. I also took at the beginning some average dose of GHB.

I don't know exactly how much MDPV I smoked in total, I guess around 150 - 200mg. I started taking low doses but as time passed and tolerance settled I was taking almost three times as much as the initial dosages (but of course the rush was pretty lame in comparison). Doses were spaced sometimes an hour and sometime 20 minutes between each other. There was a point around the 12 hour mark that I started to experience some shakes and twitches in the muscles that I was using at the moment, but not when they were relaxed. A little while later I started to experience some unbalance problems in which I would just lose equilibrium. I felt "rigid". Then I started experiencing some motor discordination: My moves were slow, clumsy and imprecise. For example it was hard to smoke the MDPV in aluminium because it was very complicated for me to hold the flame at the correct distance while holding the aluminium and inhaling through the straw, I burnt the MDPV or dropped it most of the times. I also saw I wrote super slow on the computer and made mistakes all the time. As if I could not manage to hit the correct key. It was not a clumsiness that you'd get while being drunk or anything, it was just as if I was rigid, as if my muscles ware made out of wood. I also got some tingly feelings on my legs. I thought all these motor problems existed because I was high for quite some time already (I had previously only taken MDPV very rarely and on low dosages).

A little before finishing the 26 hour session I started to experience the beginning of some psychotic symptoms. It surprised me as I read it usually happened at the 3 days. These consisted on some weird noises and sounds,some visual distortions like seeing black things move in the corner of my eye, or small dust balls that seemed to move like insects. So I took a shower about 2 hours after the last dose and went to sleep. Before doing so I realised my moves were slow and my muscles still rigid and imprecise, but I thought I was just extremely tired. I was hoping for a long sleep to recover.

I woke up however about 3 hours later and unable to sleep again. I was feeling very bad physically and psychologically. I realised that I could not move my legs correctly, but I thought it must have been a postural thing during the night. I woke up and went to the bathroom and almost fell to the ground. My body was not obeying my orders correctly! I realised this effect happened with more intensity in my feet, I am not able to bend the ankle or my toes upwards at all, and this makes walking complicated. It is as if my brain can't send the signal to the ankle, so it doesn't move. It is very frustrating to think to do a movement at that it just does not happen. However the ankle is in perfect shape and has no restrictions as you can move it freely with your hand. I have also realised there is a lack of sensibility in half of one of my toes. I can feel the right part but not the left one. My general body movements are slow, rigid and imprecise. I am moving as someone who had done too much sport the previous day and now it hurts if he moves too much. I have also realised that my reflexes have gone down considerably and I make constant mistakes while using the computer as well as simple tasks as getting a potato with a fork. Mu balance is also quite bad.

I have read here: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=MDPV That at least three people have experiences something similar to me
, but it did not last once the effects of the drug were down. They have called it "Parkinsonism" o "Akinesia". In my case it has been happening for 15 hours after my last dose. Needless to say, I am extremely worried this effects are permanent, however taking in account that there have not been any documented cases, I hope it's not permamnent.

As far as I know this might be due to the MDPV having caused an depletion in the dopamine motor areas of the brain (striatum?), and things should return to normal once the normal levels of dopamineare reached. However it is hard to believe for me, as I have been trying all afternoon to move my ankle in vain, and it would seem like magic if tomorrow everything was fine again. Plus why is half of my toe numb?

My real worry is if instead of a dopamine unbalance there has been neuronal death in the dopamine neurons, in which case I'm fucked. My hope is that taking in account the crazy doses people have been using for some years already and that we have heard nothing about it, these symptoms will soon subside.

So what do you guys think? Has someone experienced something similar? Thank you very much.

NOTE: I posted this information also on the MDPV megathread on OD, but I also want to hear the answers from ADD.
 
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I'll be honest, it sounds like you're having a rough comedown and freaking out.

Give it time, try to get some rest, drink water, eat some good food. Light stretching and maybe a walk if you're up for it could help.
 
It sounds like you're going through a rough, anxiogenic crash. Please give a few days before you assess yourself as having incurred any sort of longer lasting damage (I don't see why you would have); you're only worrying yourself for now.

ebola
 
Thanks lineartransform and ebola for your words. I have now slept 11 hours and feel my body is a little bit better. It's been 35 hours since the last dose, but I still feel rigid and clumsy. Specially my ankles. I still don't have sensibility in one of my toes.

When could I expect to be able to move normally again?

Thanks.
 
Sorry for bumping this thread constantly, but would it be helpful for my physical recovery if I took a little selegiline to inhbit MAO-B?

Thanks
 
No, you don't need to inhibit MAO, you need to wait for your body to reach an equilibrium again.

It's far more likely your symptoms are from simple exhaustion and overexertion rather than any sort of nervous system damage. You will likely be stiff and sore for at least 3-5 days. Just take it easy, MDPV binges can be like being in a knife fight for your body.

Focus on eating your vegetables, doing stretching excercises and getting restful sleep.
 
How's the toe doing? If you don't regain feeling soon you need to go see a doctor.

Hold off on the selegiline for now, your body needs to rest.
 
Unfortunately the toe is still numb. It's actually only numb on the left side and the right side feels fine. I can move it and it has the same colour and aspect as if it was healthy, I just don't have sensibility.

Throuout the day I gained a little bit of movement on my right leg but it's still very limited. Unfortunately the left leg has not improved.

Appart from this I find it difficult to write in the computer, coordinate moves, catch things, write on paper or even ear with knife and fork.

I really did not expect this happening from just a one day binge. Actually it has been the first binge I have ever had in my life with any drug... Unlucky I guess. It seems impossible for me now to believe that all these symptoms will just improve, as I have never experienced such severe motor problems.

I'll try to sleep as much as I can, stretch, walk and eat nicely. I'll also go tomorrow to the doc. I think it's important.
 
I really did not expect this happening from just a one day binge

Well, that was a lot to take in one day, well over ten times, maybe toward twenty times an effective acute dose. So this could be expected to cause after-effects lingering for a few days.

ebola
 
I get worse symptoms the day after I've consumed any type of stimulant, FWIW.
 
I feel like I've heard this story before, but it was MPTP impurities in a bad batch of MPPP that caused users' Parkinson's symptoms (and gave researchers a new way to create an animal model of Parkinson's). I know that MDPV != MPPP or MPTP, but...I'd lay off that batch of MDPV all the same.
 
That's a bit reassuring, then. But is that to say that there wasn't some neurotoxic adulterant in whatever Burn took that he was told was MDPV? I'd keep it around for testing in case you aren't better in a few weeks, or send it out for testing yourself now, just to know exactly what you're dealing with from a medical point of view. Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the synthesis of...anything, and a n00b to b00t.
 
Well I went to a friend and doctor today who is very knowledgeable about drugs. He performed some simple physical tests and told me that it is very improbable that I have done damage to my CNS. Apparently the side effects I'm feeling are due to the effects of MDPV in my PNS and/or muscles. He said to wait a week and that by then probably all the effects will be almost be gone. In the unfortunate and improbable case I don't improve, it means that I have permanently damaged my brain, but he thinks it is not very probable as I am recovering a little every day.

So far I am almost able to move my right leg correctly. It still feels a bit awkward and funny to move but its functional now. There is still this numbness in one of the toes which according to the doctor should be the first thing to disappear. As regards my left leg I am still not able to pull my foot upwards because the big toe is not moving upwards. It is very frustrating but I hope it will go away, as this was also a symptom on my other leg which has already subsided. It seems to be due to some sort of damage in the peroneal nerve. I hope it is not too severe and I am able to move my left foot correctly again.

As regards the rest of the body my motor coordination is almost fine. I can type on the computer at 90% of how I did before and my handwriting is almost fine. Of course I can't juggle or anything too complicated, but everything seems to be improving.

In conclusion it seems as I am recovering slowly. I don't know if I will gain my mobility completely but I really hope so. It's a pity because I am quite an athletic and agile person and I'm afraid that even if I fully recover, somehow it will not be the same again.

If we learn from something in life, it's from mistakes. And this one has been so enormous and drastic that my whole life could have changed to a horrible mess. It seems it won't but I still can't say for sure if I will be completely perfect. What I know is that this has been a lesson that I will learn from and try to make myself a better person out of it.

I'll keep you guys updated and thanks for all the input, you made me feel much better in those horrible moments of parkinsonian comedown of hell.
 
Well, the doctor is almost certainly wrong about it being caused by the effect of MDPV on your PNS or directly on the muscles. Unless your kidneys or liver are failing and releasing something damaging your muscles somehow, I can't imagine any sort of mechanism by which that could occur. Since muscle action is controlled by the CNS, not the PNS, it's also improbable. The nerve tingling thing is all there really is to point toward it being peripheral.

Actually, I met a guy with PD once who was able to juggle quite well, he said because it required no thought. Reminded me of the scene in Awakenings where the patients were able to move in order to catch a ball, but wer otherwise entirely akinetic.

Occam's Razor: most likely you severely depleted your brain of dopamine inducing a parkinsonistic state. Given that I'm not aware of even heavy meth users accomplishing this feat, (and that I am not a doctor) I would suspect that your brain may already be running low on dopamine and possibly slowly developing the disease. Do you have a family history? If you have money to throw around, get yourself a PET scan with fluorodeoxyglucose and/or [123I]beta-CIT. Might be interesting.

Let's not forget though, this wasn't just a binge. This was a serious overdose. You're lucky to have lived. To complain that you're experiencing various symptoms after engaging in truly stupid activity, suicidal activity, is ludicrous. You should be happy you're alive. Worry about long term damage in a month. You're wasting your time now.


Now i wanna free PET scan of my brain with beta-CIT for a tracer. I wonder what it'd look like after all these years of drug use. I haven't hit stimulants very hard, but I have ingested too much manganese and suffered some consequences as a result.
 
Woah Hammilton! I'm glad I did not read you a few days ago because I would have sure suicided! o: I sure appreciate your concern and preoccupation for my health state and I really thank you for the information. Let me explain how this has all evolved.

Fortunately I am happy to say that I am very well now and recovering fast. The general motor issues (lack of coordination, dyskinesia, balance problems, etc...) subsided about 2 days later after my last dose, which I presume was, as Hammilton said, due to very low dopamine levels in the brain. Since then I have only been experiencing problems in my feet and ankles which seemed to work in a different manner as the general motor problems I was feeling before, which makes me think that it is unrelated to the CNS: It seems that all these leg/feet issues were happening because of some sort of damage to the peroneal nerve. Why the damage was done I don't know, I am not very knowledgeable about the possible interactions between MDPV and nerve fascicles, and I don't know if the MDPV could have caused vasoconstriction and damaged these nerves.

However I have seen a fast recovery: Five days ago I could not move my ankles at all except in a downwards motion, and now I have full mobility on my right leg (and no more numbness) and almost complete mobility on my left leg. The problem there is that the toe still can't move upwards, which means that the deep part of the peroneal nerve is still in need of more recovery. I do exercises and stretches which have sure helped a lot. I have realised that the more I try to move the feet the better it gets. During the night I don't see much recovery but during the day after a walk or just doing some exercises on the area I definitely see some improvement. The only physical symptom I have left besides a general weakness and muscle loss is just this big toe issue on my left foot. Seeing the daily improvement on both my feet I hope it will pass soon.

It seems that I have been very lucky with all this. The outcome could have been much worse as Hammilton pointed. I am lucky for this and will sure learn from the experience and try to change my life for the better. I am glad I did not have to pay a high price to learn the lesson.

I will let you guys know how the rest of the situation evolves throughout the following days. Thanks for the support.
 
most likely you severely depleted your brain of dopamine inducing a parkinsonistic state. Given that I'm not aware of even heavy meth users accomplishing this feat, (and that I am not a doctor)

I had parkinsonistic symptoms (and extreme vasoconstriction) after a mephedrone binge (1g), I'm not suprised that MDPV can do the same.
 
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