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Relapse Relapse, Withdrawal, Need Help

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mtball1419

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Hi all,

New to posting here but not new to reading the threads. I am currently going through w/d from oxy/hydrocodone. I attempted to get clean for the first time at the beginning of the year. Had been a daily user (120-150mg of oxycodone) for 4 years, along with benzos. Went to inpatient rehab for 28 days, then IOP for 8 weeks. Made it 97 days clean and sober before I relapsed. I had started to gain back things that I had lost or was losing in my active addiction. My wife had filed for divorce and has taken me back. She has no idea about my relapse and I am afraid if I tell her that there will be no coming back from it. However, I know that in order to truly live a good life, I can't keep lying. The secrets will only keep me sick.

My relapse started back in April. Rationalized my way into using again. Tolerance is right back where it was when I stopped back in January. No benzos and only oxy this time around. It's been 90-120mg every other day or so. Sometimes consecutive days. Right back into my old lifestyle. Just keep beating myself up about how I could let this happen after all of the support I received the first time around and all of the good that had come from it.

I'm on day five of cold turkey w/d right now and feeling pretty miserable. The mental aspect of it is awful. Thankfully I do not have the resources to go and pickup right now but I will by the end of the week and feel like I am already planning it out in my head. Also, considering every option to try and make it feasible right now.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I know the only person I have talked to about this won't tell anyone. I know I will need to tell my wife/family at some point and deal with the consequences.

Thanks all.

MT
 
I am sorry to hear about your relapse, though, it happens - and is part of this process sometimes unfortunately! I am recently coming clean off a relapse as well. And boy, it DOES suck. Real bad.
have you considered anything as a means to transition into, that may soften the blow? Such as a methadone maintenance (I don't know much about this, I'm one of the few people who used methadone recreationally.) or Kratom? Both are solid options worth giving some thought to.
Congratulations on day 5 though. That's huge! If you feel you can push through, do everything you can for that option, but if you 100% feel you cannot, perhaps pursue other options that I've mentioned above.
The journey to sobriety isn't a smooth one, there's really no right or wrong way, as every individual is different.
As for telling your family, that's a tough one. I was in the same position, and ended up coming clean. They offered support, but they don't truly understand. I cannot advise what to do in that regard, as you know them better than I do.
It sounds as if you really want to be free from this, and that attitude is a good one to have during this whole process. Try not to let the "miserable feelings" get you down, being forgiving and loving towards yourself (as cheesy as that sounds) is important. :)
 
Hey MT-

I read your post in another thread. I am feeling similar pain. My journey included 2 cold turkey detoxes in jail. My house burning down - getting arrested while watching your house burn down is - or should be- sobering. My point is- this journey to getting free-I prefer saying free rather than clean- isnt a straight line nor is it neat, tidy and in a pretty package. Even though I feel like throwing myself out of a window, somewhere deep in my heart I know I'm doing the best I can and am headed in the right direction.

Your desire to want to get free is intact. That speaks volumes. That desire didnt exist for me at one point nor did I believe it ever would. Cut yourself some slack. What has happened is common and part of eventually getting it right. Seriously, congarulations on 5 days Most of us know how shitty you feel and felt. It sucks. Someday soon we're going to get more and more time and disrance between ourselves and our DOC. Hang in there.
 
Thank you to the both of you for your replies. It means a lot that others care enough to reach out.

TWP - I am sorry to hear about your relapse. I hope that you are doing well today. I have tried Kratom before and never got much out of it. I really want to try and stay away from all psychoactive substances this time. I feel like I am through with the worst of the physical part of the w/d. Other than the RLS, especially at night. I will be tossing and turning to no end. That always seems to be the worst part for me. The mental aspect is terrible. I try to explain it to a non-addict about why I can't stay away from it and they just don't get that whatever an addict's DOC may be, that is the thing that "does it" for that person. Not to mention they help me forget about how much shit I have put people through. Especially my wife. She deserves better. I hope your day is going well!

10Years - Damn, I am sorry to hear about your house. I can't even fathom how terrible that must be to go through. I know what you mean about the positive outlook of I am doing the best that I can right now. I just can't get past the fact that I will be able to pick up in a few days if I want to. I hope I have the strength to not do that at that point in time. Day 6 today, time to power through.

Thanks all!
 
OP, do you still know people at the IOP you were at? And are they local? If so, I'd recommend reaching out to them. This kind of thing is their bread and butter.

You're in a tough spot, but it isn't impossible. In fact there are lots of ways out. One of the most direct (though the decision is ultimately up to you, of course) would be to try some sort of medication-assisted therapy (MAT). Suboxone (or a similar drug) is usually the first thing that would be tried, and it's probably a good choice. There's also methadone, of course, but given your situation, it sounds like suboxone/buprenorphine would be more typically indicated (please keep in mind, I'm no doctor...so please talk to someone who is). There's also vivitrol and other forms of naltrexone...these have no opioid effects, but they make it impossible to get high from opioids and *can* be a good supplement for people who are highly motivated to abstain but who have trouble with relapses. N.B. suboxone and methadone are really the gold standard for treatment...I only brought up naltrexone because it can be great for certain people.

Even if you don't go with MAT, I think talking to someone at the IOP might get you on a path to having a plan for long-term recovery.

Meanwhile, of course, please keep posting here. We got your back! <3
 
Hey, Sim. Appreciate the response. Both the inpatient facility and the IOP facility I went to are local. I have considered trying to find a sub doctor. I just started a new job and benefits kick in the first of next month, so I may possibly look at doing that. However, I can't hide going to a sub doctor from my wife. Which is not something that I should do. I am just not ready to tell her yet. I know that is not fair to her, especially with all of the shit that I have already put her through. I know that to have success in recovery I am going to have to be honest (the opposite of how I am in active addiction). Just afraid of what will happen if I tell her.

I have also thought about vivitrol. Knowing that I was unable to get high from the opiates would definitely be a deterrent. Just giving up that power to get high if I really want to is something that I would have to get over. The physical aspect of w/d definitely sucks but the mental side of it is a real bitch.

Thanks for the reply, hope your day is going well.

MT
 
First off, you're right: honesty is crucial during recovery. But there are limits. If the damage of filling your wife in would be gratuitous or truly ruinous, there's no need to be sadistic or masochistic. Especially since it sounds like you truly do want to turn things around.

Second, I'm always hesitant to recommend vivitrol, because it's research base is weak and too many people get coerced into using it. BUT...I can say this: I tried many different approaches to quitting heroin (including about 6 months in a suboxone maintenance program) and nothing worked for me until I got on naltrexone (the medicine in vivitrol--they started me on the pills and then switched to the shot). I'm not sure why, but for me, vivitrol was really helpful. Knowing I had it in my system forced me to learn to cope with life without drugs. It was sometimes pretty awful...wanting to use but being unable to. But honestly, in my case, that wasn't a lot more awful than the trap I was in in my addiction.

Vivitrol is a huge decision. If you're thinking about it, I'd be happy to discuss it more detail.
 
Sim - Thank you for the response. I am interested in learning more about the Vivitrol shot. At this point I believe that knowing I could not get high is one of the only things that would help me to abstain from use. My brain just keeps telling me that it wants that drug. The only thing going through my head right now is an intense desire to get high. Just can't shake it.

I don't know that the damage would be gratuitous. But I am fairly certain that it would lead to divorce and me being forced to leave. Which, in all honesty might not be a terrible thing. After I was in inpatient back in January I went and lived at my Sister and Brother-in-Laws place for awhile. I moved back in with my wife in April, shortly before my relapse. I might need to figure things out on my own before I can be able to provide the support to someone else that is required to make a marriage work.

Thanks, Sim.
 
MT-

just to let you know-if I weren't in a different state right now-I'd be able to use today. And I'm not feeling too good right now (cold sweats, insomnia) and I'm not home so it's double sucky. BUT I'm a little glad that I can't get dope. I'm probably staying in Fla for the month.

If I were home I doubt I'd be able to not use today. Given that I don't feel well. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know-but you have to change a variable in your situation "People, places and things" are changed for me presently. I'm not gonna lie-this isn't fun but I know, as you do, this is better for me. Thinking of you :)
 
mtball1419 said:
Sim - Thank you for the response. I am interested in learning more about the Vivitrol shot. At this point I believe that knowing I could not get high is one of the only things that would help me to abstain from use. My brain just keeps telling me that it wants that drug. The only thing going through my head right now is an intense desire to get high. Just can't shake it.

I don't know that the damage would be gratuitous. But I am fairly certain that it would lead to divorce and me being forced to leave. Which, in all honesty might not be a terrible thing. After I was in inpatient back in January I went and lived at my Sister and Brother-in-Laws place for awhile. I moved back in with my wife in April, shortly before my relapse. I might need to figure things out on my own before I can be able to provide the support to someone else that is required to make a marriage work.

Thanks, Sim.
Click to expand...

It might be the case that vivitrol would be a good choice for you...only you can make that call. Just keep in mind that physiologically speaking, it does nothing to mitigate cravings. So if you go for it, you're going to be in a tough spot. Now for me, that was exactly the spot I needed...I needed to learn how to sit with my cravings and find a way to get through them without using, and vivitrol forced me to do that. But I've also heard stories of people being truly miserable on vivitrol, for reasons that I'm sure you can imagine.

If you *do* decide to go with vivitrol, your doc will almost surely start you on the oral form of naltrexone. It's the same medicine in vivitrol, just without the time-release action. That is, you'll have to take a pill once a day for a while to make sure your body tolerates the naltrexone. The oral form of naltrexone is dirt cheap, so it is a nice way to test the waters, so to speak...you're not committing to a 30-day project and you don't have to jump through a lot of insurance hoops (vivitrol injections are $$). The obvious down side with the pills is that it's trivial to withhold them for a day so you can get high.

Another thing to keep in mind with naltrexone (oral or injected) is that you *must* abstain from opioids of all kinds until your body is rid of them. Initiating naltrexone while you still have opioids in your system will throw you into precipitated withdrawal, which is its own special hell. For me, getting enough clean time to start the naltrexone was the biggest hurdle.

Again, my recommendation is to reach out to the IOP you were at and explain your situation to them. Does that sound like a plan?
 
simco offers very sound advice on this.

I wonder if Vivitrol is more effective when used by people who are arguably already on their way to aging out of problematic patterns of drug use. It would make sense, but it is only speculation on my part.

FWIW I seem to have met more folks in their 30/40/50's for whom naltrexone seemed to work better for than the younger, perhaps less mature crowd.
 
toothpastedog said:
simco offers very sound advice on this.

I wonder if Vivitrol is more effective when used by people who are arguably already on their way to aging out of problematic patterns of drug use. It would make sense, but it is only speculation on my part.

FWIW I seem to have met more folks in their 30/40/50's for whom naltrexone seemed to work better for than the younger, perhaps less mature crowd.
Click to expand...

I think that's a reasonable theory. In my own case I don't think I was exactly aging out...I was still going full-bore. But I was also *desperate* to quit. I had been trying to quit for a couple years by the time I got on naltrexone. But the intensity of the desire to be done was at its peak then. Something had definitely changed in my attitude towards recovery when I decided to get on naltrexone. I'm honestly not sure what would have happened if I'd tried it earlier.
 
My advice: Do not tell your wife. Unless you want to truly lose everything. She does not need to know... you can beat this. I suggest you transition to kratom in order to kick the oxy. Then, when you are off the oxy but dependent on kratom, and you are ready to quit the kratom, then tell her you are hooked on kratom. It is legal and natural, and will soften the blow. Tell her you were interested in kratom, and you heard it can scratch the itch for cravings you were having... and it did, but now you are hooked on it and want to quit.

Your wife will most likely not be as understanding this time around. I know mine wasn't. Non-addicts just don't "get in" IME.

Good luck
 
Bringing in a loved one can be very tricky business. Both the payoffs and the risks are rather intense in such a charge situation as this.

Ideally that kind of familial support is invaluable, but given all the hangups most people have surrounding stuff like opioid use or any substance use disorder it can easily backfire if not done skillfully. Coming out to my family (in the unskillful, sort of "baring my soul" kind of way I did) was probably one of the biggest mistakes I made in my recovery. Almost ten years later our relationships are much stronger than ever (and to those family members I've become distanced from, it's no skin off my back given the particulars), but there were a LOT of difficult times in-between then and now.

I would suggest waiting to bring your wife into this until you're in a bit of a better place, but even then it's a very personal kind of decision. If your drug use isn't directly impacting her (and it's more harming you by having to feel like you have to manipulate or deceive her), then I'd definitely recommend stabilizing a bit before making any decisions. It's far harder to be skillful with such difficult things when one is coming from the intensely kind of stressful place it sounds like the OP currently is.
 
Telling your wife is a tough call. Im in the "dont walk into a burning building" school of thought.

Others that cannot understand addiction dont get the compulsion to use. At one point even w the threat of jail time-I couldnt stop. I wanted to so badly. To the point of being doubled over crying.

Alot of it was due to the fact that my mental health wasnt properly addressed yet. My using now is out of boredom and not having a strong supporrt system in place. And its not nearly as intense (my current using) I attribute that to mental health meds. I firmly believe Id long ago been full force using if not for meds.
 
Telling your wife is a tricky thing as we dont know her and dont know the situation. If you are 100% sure you can and will get clean and she wont find out maybe avoid telling her. If you think shell find out it may be better to tell her you slipped up rather than her find out and thinl you are hiding it. If she may be unreasonable about a relapse (some think it shouldn't ever happen) maybe avoid telling her. I would rather come clean than get caught personally except with unrealistic people. A slip up isnt starting over from step 1, you habe made a lot of progress and learned a lot, and relapse is offen part of recovery. its not like you have given up and werent trying. maybe type out what you want to tell her and show it later when you are back on track or questions things?

and best to quit now before you get in too deep!!!

i also would consider suboxone (if your dr agrees). taper down slowly and no one will know you are on it. and since it is such a high affinity, if you take any other opioids they wont work. after being on it a while i need to abstain from suboxone for a couple days to take another opiod, so its similar to vivitrol slightly in that regard. and helps with WD and getting your life back on track. could even use the blocking effect as a reason to take it when you are supposedly clean, to deal with cravings, if she finds the meds. best of luck.
 
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Hi All -

I can't thank you all enough for sharing your experiences and knowledge with me. If there is one thing about AA/NA (12-Step) programs that I agree wholeheartedly with, it is that, being able to talk with another alcoholic/addict is invaluable in recovery. Day eight of cold turkey w/d for me today. Other than the restless legs at night and the insomnia the physical aspect of this is not an issue for me right now. I just don't know how to get past the mental aspect of wanting to be high. I know the opiates have changed the structure and operation of my brain cells to where it is now almost "primitively wired" to want the drug. The damn depression that comes with w/d is just terrible.

I feel that it would be better for me to be honest with my wife instead of having her end up finding out and feeling like I was hiding the relapse/slip from her. I think it might be better to get things under control with a doctor and on some sort of maintenance meds or the Naltrexone/Vivitrol before I talk to the wife about it.

I plan to see my General Practitioner next week and talk about what has been going on. I know my GP doesn't prescribe subs but would they be able to point me in the right direction. Anyone that has sought out Subs or Vivitrol, did you see your GP first or research a doctor that would do that and go straight to them?

Thank you again everyone for your support and help here. It means more than you'll ever know. Hope everyone is having a great day.

MT
 
GPs can be great when they have experience with this stuff, but it seems like most still really don't. I'd seek out a psychiatrist or outpatient program to prescribe either of those medications who specializes in using them, as well as have experience dealing with mental health concerns more broadly. I'm not saying don't talk to your GP, but unless they're rather exceptional you're probably best doing your own research.

What I also recommend and have consistently had the best luck with is seeking out a referral through a university's medical school or a teaching hospital. Some of the best doctors I've found to work with I've found through such institutions like Scripps, USC and UCLA. University hospital and affiliated programs tend to be the most up to date with current treatment protocols, which is really helpful.

Do you live in an area with any large university hospitals?

You are so right about how worse it would be if your partner found out about this on their own, without you directly dealing with them about it. Showing intiative always goes over far better than just sharing that you've got an issue with this, so I think you've figured out a great plan. Definitely let your spouse known before it gets to a point they're likely to "find you out" on their own, but like I said the initiative will go a long way to showing them you're serious about getting healthy.
 
TPD is spot on (as always).

While I don't think it would be *bad* to bring this up with your GP, it's unfortunately quite likely that he or she won't be coming from a lot of experience. In my own case, I knew the clinic that I was interested in work with...they were the 'addiction medicine' department of a large local hospital. So I simply called them on the phone to set up a consultation. As is often the case, they claimed to have a long wait time. But I cajoled a bit--telling them I really needed help, could they please see me sooner--and they worked me in fairly quickly.

One thing I would avoid if possible is seeking out a private suboxone clinic. I'm sure some of them are fine, but my own experience (and the experience of many people I know) is that they are often a money-making venture and not especially helpful. Of course, if that's your only option locally, it's probably better than nothing. But if possible, I recommend trying to find an addiction medicine department in an established hospital or clinic.

One other piece of advice...as you get ready to enter into treatment (of whatever kind) for your addiction, prepare to advocate on your own behalf. This is important in all contemporary medical settings (at least in the US). But I think it's especially true when it comes to addiction treatment. Many programs have unfortunately rigid ideas about treating addiction. If they try to sell you on a medicine or other intervention that feels wrong for you, it's absolutely your right to push back. Of course, it's a fine line...it's also important to be open to treatments we might not have thought of. But if anything seems patently unhelpful, you can always say so. I found this to be especially true when it came to naltrexone/vivitrol. Since naltrexone has pretty weak clinical evidence in its favor, my doctors were very reluctant to prescribe it to me. I really had to make a pain of myself before they agreed to try it.


Good luck, and please keep us in the loop!
 
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