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Red defqon

^ Nope...

1. Using 5-HTP the day before or the day of a roll can lead to Serotonin Syndrome (as can SSRIs and MDMA!)
2. 5-HTP is toxic, it isn't metabolized by the body hardly at all. L-Tryptophan is much better
3. You would need to take it for weeks to make any difference
and 4. long term 5-HT downregulation isn't going to be reversed by just taking a pill... even pseudo-medicines like smart drugs
 
Really? I've read lots of stories about people preloading with 5-HTP and they had nothing but good things to say about it. Does 5-HTP not help your brain develop serotonin faster? Then would there not be more for the MDMA to release and therefore a better hit? I also see it being sold in many pharmacies so why is it being sold if it's toxic? I am no genius and am really just pulling at straws here (sorry if i am completely wrong lol).

I didn't plan on using the 5-HTP while on the prozac if that's what you're thinking because i know the two combined could cause serotonin syndrome as you have mentioned. I would have waited until the prozac was completely out of my system before i tried to load up with the 5-HTP and I understand now that a few days of loading up isn't enough. I am taking your advice into account about the L-Tryptophan too but i just cant see how something being sold legally by chemists is toxic.
 
Folley said:
^ Nope...

1. Using 5-HTP the day before or the day of a roll can lead to Serotonin Syndrome (as can SSRIs and MDMA!)
2. 5-HTP is toxic, it isn't metabolized by the body hardly at all. L-Tryptophan is much better
3. You would need to take it for weeks to make any difference
and 4. long term 5-HT downregulation isn't going to be reversed by just taking a pill... even pseudo-medicines like smart drugs
Click to expand...

In terms of 5-HTP's adverse effects, I was about to tell you that you're flat-out wrong. I was about to say that back - way back about 8 years or so when I was at the height of my mdma use, it was recommended by many different sources that an etard preload and postload with 5-HTP, firstly to increase peripheral and sympathetic nervous system levels, and secondly, to reduce the severity of the hangover - and that it helped.

But after reading thoroughly through recently published med articles about 5-HTP now, I am shocked just how dangerous it appears it can be to use.

Bluelighters who really like rolling who've been around here since 2000 to 2005 probably know what I'm writing about when I talk about how the general consensus on preloading and postloading in relation to ecstasy or mdma usually incorporated 5-HTP into the cocktail of doodoo that an enlightened etard considered beneficial to increase the high and reduce the hangover as well as any possible neurotoxicity. And also, I'm randomly wondering what ever happened to BilZ0r. I enjoyed reading his posts.

Had I known years ago what I do today, I would never have used 5-HTP. I wonder if continuous use of it contributed to "the incident of June 7th, 2005." One that I will never forget. One that changed me life 4eva n eva.
 
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^ Yeah it's kind of eye opening... something that almost everyone though was good for them actually turned out to be toxic...


It won't kill you, but your body just isn't meant to take 5-HTP directly. Normally, you eat food with L-Tryptophan and your brain makes 5-HTP the RIGHT way, and everything is OK. Just replace L-Trypt pills for the 5-HTP, and get off the prozac that won't do any good at all...
 
Wow, you guys are really smart, I'm still quite young and learning, (19 years old). But I'm very glad i have signed up here because at least i can get a straight answer from people who know what they are on about. I'm actually really dissapointed my doc has prescribed me this because i can get all these amazing pills very easily but cant even take them at the minute :(
I took a tri force the other week and got the tiniest effect ever, almost "placebo like" and they are supposed to be the successor to the famous speakers. My doctor has also just upped my dose to 40mg a day fs, but i went into quite a story with him about how i have been feeling and I know now that I definately am depressed so I think I should keep on the prozac, (and sorry for being monotonous and off topic here) but will I never be able to roll as strongly as I did before the prozac even months after it is out of my system?

As I have said I'm only 19 and I really don't plan on stopping taking pills this early in life, but if they are never going to effect me again then this will be a HUGE dissappointment for me.
 
Folley said:
^ Yeah it's kind of eye opening... something that almost everyone though was good for them actually turned out to be toxic...


It won't kill you, but your body just isn't meant to take 5-HTP directly. Normally, you eat food with L-Tryptophan and your brain makes 5-HTP the RIGHT way, and everything is OK. Just replace L-Trypt pills for the 5-HTP, and get off the prozac that won't do any good at all...
Click to expand...

I'm glad you even brought it up. I probably would have continued using it as I'm considering rolling again this summer (I haven't rolled since 2007 - I tried rolling in 2009 but I was nearly piped to death or at least it felt that way).
 
spaced_out said:
Wow, you guys are really smart, I'm still quite young and learning, (19 years old). But I'm very glad i have signed up here because at least i can get a straight answer from people who know what they are on about. I'm actually really dissapointed my doc has prescribed me this because i can get all these amazing pills very easily but cant even take them at the minute :(
I took a tri force the other week and got the tiniest effect ever, almost "placebo like" and they are supposed to be the successor to the famous speakers. My doctor has also just upped my dose to 40mg a day fs, but i went into quite a story with him about how i have been feeling and I know now that I definately am depressed so I think I should keep on the prozac, (and sorry for being monotonous and off topic here) but will I never be able to roll as strongly as I did before the prozac even months after it is out of my system?

As I have said I'm only 19 and I really don't plan on stopping taking pills this early in life, but if they are never going to effect me again then this will be a HUGE dissappointment for me.
Click to expand...

I'm the same way with blow. Ever since I was started on Wellbutrin XL 300mg (which is afaik a mild and possibly selective Norepinephrine & Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor), it seems that every time I've tried to go skiing; the high has always felt dulled out somehow - less euphoria and more useless peripheral stimulation (almost like I took a big dose of ephedrine). Combining the blow with booze did help though and I'm not surprised since booze induces at least one of the hepatic (liver) enzymes involved in the breakdown/elimination of bupropion (Wellbutrin XL). So I'm assuming that the bupropion is competing with the blow for respective receptor binding.

spaced_out, I personally was on 1 SNRI and 3 different SSRIs in succession for about 30 months (Effexor XR 75mg, Paxil 20mg, Prozac 20mg and Zoloft 100mg) before being put on Wellbutrin XL 300mg in late spring 2006. In the summer of 2007, I went to a rave and I was able to roll quite well. I wasn't floored but I definitely felt empathetic, loved up, introspective, had a perma-grin for hours, couldn't stop talking, was comfortable discussing touchy subjects/topics, horny, danced my ass off and this was from one pill. I know everyone is different, but the reason I'm telling is - I guess - to give you hope that chances are you'll still be able to roll. Just you'll have to lay off the SSRIs for a while (which - if you're clinically depressed - you probably shouldn't do).
 
@ folly and ro4eva: although i do appreciate your warnings etc. about 5-htp, i find it funny how so many bluelighters (including yourselves) are quick to say how bad 5-htp is for u and how ur body isn't "meant to take it directly." ummm and MDxx is meant to take directly? there really isnt much known about 5-htp as we are the guinea pigs....just like we are the guinea pigs for MDxx. in my personal experience 5-htp postloading works wonders with the only side effects being some weird dreams and some fatigue in the morning. 5-htp is just skipping the step of one conversion in the metabolic process. similar to how oxymorphone is one step skipped in the metabolic process than oxycodone (oxycodone metabolizes into oxymorphone). so although i understand your concerns, until i see any irrefutable evidence that 5-htp is harmful to you i will keep using it and keep recommending it. bc honestly, if ur gonna use mdxx and be so against using 5-htp ur priorities are a little messed up lol.

and please share this med articles about how bad 5-htp is for u to prove me wrong and i will shut up and stop taking it and stop recommending it :)
 
gnarleyonaharley said:
@ folly and ro4eva: although i do appreciate your warnings etc. about 5-htp, i find it funny how so many bluelighters (including yourselves) are quick to say how bad 5-htp is for u and how ur body isn't "meant to take it directly." ummm and MDxx is meant to take directly? there really isnt much known about 5-htp as we are the guinea pigs....just like we are the guinea pigs for MDxx. in my personal experience 5-htp postloading works wonders with the only side effects being some weird dreams and some fatigue in the morning. 5-htp is just skipping the step of one conversion in the metabolic process. similar to how oxymorphone is one step skipped in the metabolic process than oxycodone (oxycodone metabolizes into oxymorphone). so although i understand your concerns, until i see any irrefutable evidence that 5-htp is harmful to you i will keep using it and keep recommending it. bc honestly, if ur gonna use mdxx and be so against using 5-htp ur priorities are a little messed up lol.

and please share this med articles about how bad 5-htp is for u to prove me wrong and i will shut up and stop taking it and stop recommending it :)
Click to expand...

I don't believe that either myself or Folley were comparing the risks/benefits of taking 5-htp (a supplement) vs mdxx (a moderately hard family of drugs in my opinion) in any way.

I don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to 5-htp use. I used to use it a lot. All I was saying is that I'm shocked at some of the possible long term adverse effects that may arise from supplementing with 5-htp. I'm shocked because I googled "5-htp" ready to defend it and ended up reading about how it could possibly damage your heart (cardiac fibrosis), cause hypertension, eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome, acute serotonin syndrome and also how it apparently has been shown to cross the blood-brain barrier, the last of which made me do a double-take. I'll link you what I read below, but, at this time, like I said, I don't know what to believe.

I don't condone using any drugs. In fact, if you can live your life drug free, that would probably be best in terms of long term overall health. I believe that - given the proper circumstances - mdma can be neurotoxic, and mda moreso. Based on what I've read, Folley probably feels the same way.

About priorities - I'll be honest with you, my priorities in general are extremely messed up and they almost always have been.

Here's links to what I read:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/111/12/1517 - 5-HTP and Heart Valve Disease (1-2)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1850896/?tool=pmcentrez - 5-HTP and Heart Valve Disease (2-2)
http://mazdamx.hubpages.com/hub/The-Dangers-of-5-HTP - Hypertension and Serotonin Syndrome
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7699627 - An eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome related disorder associated with exposure to 5-HTP.
http://www.erowid.org/smarts/tryptophan/tryptophan_info1.shtml - 5-HTP crossing Blood-Brain Barrier (1-2)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445233 - 5-HTP crossing Blood-Brain Barrier (2-2)
 
^ Yeah, I agree with all of that. MDMA is extremely neurotoxic, in fact it's one of the MOST damaging recreational drugs there are... right up there with Methamphetamine.

The fact is, 5-HTP pills are shit... 5-HTP is found naturally in our brains, but only in very specific places in the brain. When you take a 5-HTP pill, only a TINY amount is converted and can reach your brain, the rest of it all goes through your liver and is almost entirely excreted without being metabolized.

So that means when you take 5-HTP, 90% of it is just floating around your body in parts that it is NOT supposed to be in... that can set your body off quite a bit.



Just get L-Tryptophan, it's the same thing. It gets metabolized into 5-HTP in the stomach anyways, but is actually meant to be taken by humans... in fact we need to eat it to live.
 
folley what do u have to say about this? my source is http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...dientId=326&activeIngredientName=L-TRYPTOPHAN

L-tryptophan is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth. It has been linked to over 1500 reports of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS) and 37 deaths. EMS is a neurological condition with symptoms that include fatigue; intense muscle pain; nerve pain; skin changes; baldness; rash; and pain and swelling affecting the joints, connective tissue, lungs, heart, and liver. Symptoms tend to improve over time, but some people may still experience symptoms up to 2 years after they develop EMS. Some people report that their symptoms have never gone away completely.

In 1990, L-tryptophan was recalled from the market due to these safety concerns. After the limitation of L-tryptophan products, the number of EMS cases dropped sharply. The exact cause of EMS in patients taking L-tryptophan is unknown, but some evidence suggests it may be due to contaminated L-tryptophan products. About 95% of all EMS cases were traced to L-tryptophan produced by a single manufacturer in Japan. Currently, under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994, L-tryptophan is available and marketed as a dietary supplement.

L-tryptophan can cause some side effects such as heartburn, stomach pain, belching and gas, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and loss of appetite. It can also cause headache, lightheadedness, drowsiness, dry mouth, visual blurring, muscle weakness, and sexual problems.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: L-tryptophan is LIKELY UNSAFE in pregnancy because it may harm the unborn child. Not enough is known about the safety of L-tryptophan during breast-feeding. Avoid using L-tryptophan during pregnancy and breast-feeding.

A white blood cell disorder called eosinophilia: L-tryptophan might make this condition worse. L-tryptophan has been associated with the development of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS).

Liver or kidney disease: L-tryptophan might make these conditions worse since it has been associated with the development of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS).
 
The exact cause of EMS in patients taking L-tryptophan is unknown, but some evidence suggests it may be due to contaminated L-tryptophan products. About 95% of all EMS cases were traced to L-tryptophan produced by a single manufacturer in Japan
Click to expand...


That's really all I need to say lol...

L-Tryptophan is found in turkey, fish, and many other foods. 5-HTP is only found in very specific parts of our brain, and 90% of it won't get there from the stomach. I've seen a few cases of SS coming from 5-HTP use, but I've never seen anything wrong with eating tons of turkey :\
 
ro4eva said:
spaced_out, I personally was on 1 SNRI and 3 different SSRIs in succession for about 30 months (Effexor XR 75mg, Paxil 20mg, Prozac 20mg and Zoloft 100mg) before being put on Wellbutrin XL 300mg in late spring 2006. In the summer of 2007, I went to a rave and I was able to roll quite well. I wasn't floored but I definitely felt empathetic, loved up, introspective, had a perma-grin for hours, couldn't stop talking, was comfortable discussing touchy subjects/topics, horny, danced my ass off and this was from one pill. I know everyone is different, but the reason I'm telling is - I guess - to give you hope that chances are you'll still be able to roll. Just you'll have to lay off the SSRIs for a while (which - if you're clinically depressed - you probably shouldn't do).
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply, the weather has been amazing here which is very rare so it's been sun, beers and parties the past few days :) and thats just what i needed to hear because you had me thinking for a minute that the party was for me lol which would have been bad news as MDxx types of drugs are my drug of choice because I don't really like alcohol the hangovers are just too much for me and I have just recently stopped cannabis (1 week now :))

I don't plan on staying off my SSRI's because I am starting to feel a lot better after upping my dose of prozac and laying off the weed and that's only 1 week so for me thats a definate sign that weed and SSRI's counter-act each other because i was the wake and bake, everyday kind of toker.
But that's good news because i can handle laying off the pills for about 6 months or so as long as my mental health stays in shape (hopefully it's less though lol).

And I see there is a full debate on about 5-HTP and L-tryptophan now haha. I had only read a few stories about how it increased peoples rolls that's why i brought it up so I can't throw in any comments on either drug but these are interesting reads nonetheless.
 
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