Hexagon Sun
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 737
Not sure yet if it´s a breakthrought or just plain bullshit, but we have a Shulgin report, a Medical paper and some anecdotal evidence.
The shulgin post:
The paper:
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(15)00472-7/abstract
Some reddit anecdota:
A reddit thread about the question:
https://www.reddit.com/r/researchchemicals/comments/5xod19/2cbfly_rilmenidineclonidine/
Personally I would take it with a giant grain of salt, but could be interesting to keep exploring the relationship between imidazoline agonist, psychedelics, and maybe the inclusion of THC for the sake of science
The shulgin post:
8.0 mg 2C-B-fly and 2.0 mg of rilmenidine at 12:30 pm; cannabis vapor at 4:00: The result was spectacular. I got a +4 experience from a pure imidazoline blood pressure medication! It is probably the entactogenic core of MDMA. I tend to think of the effects of MDMA as sweeter and gentler than this, but this was much stronger than any MDMA I have previously experienced. It turns out that 2.0 mg of rilmenidine is a very high dose. This is much more intense than the 0.2 mg of clonidine. Probably 1.0 mg would be adequate, and more comparable to a typical dose of MDMA. It also las ted longer than MDMA.... I took cannabis vapor. Within minutes my heart opened and the rilmenidine fully blossomed. At this point I could not feel the cannabis at all, although I had taken it only a few minutes before. I was astonished by the experience. Not because it worked, I had already seen the clonidine work. I was astonished by the depth of the experience, and I remained astonished for two weeks. I was ecstatic. Not ecstatic because it worked, rather the mental state was ecstatic, somewhat un-sober. I recalled Martin Ball calling 5-MeO-DMT the “crown jewel of the entheogens”. I felt that rilmenidine must also be a crown jewel. I described the state with superlatives.... Qualitatively, it is very hard to characterize the rilmenidine state, apart from the depth of it. At 3:52 hours she asked me how I feel, and I responded “It is like a peaceful lake, it feels eternal... in a peaceful sense”. Perhaps most telling, just 25 minutes after taking the cannabis, 3:55 hours after 36 taking the rilmenidine, I spoke to my wife about what for me were the core issues in our relationship. These are things that are very hard to discuss because they are painful, and discussion tends to lead to anger. But we discussed it peacefully. I expressed my sadness with tears. I believe this capacity for calm contemplation and discussion of painful personal issues is a core feature of the entactogenic state of MDMA, and here I was experiencing it with blood pressure medication.... For me it’s really, astonishingly among the best psychedelic experiences I’ve ever had. Unbelievable. (Shulgin 2016) Pharm 2, p. 26-27
The paper:
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(15)00472-7/abstract
Some reddit anecdota:
0. 2 mg clonidine and 9.0 mg of 2C-B-fly at noon, cannabis at 3:00 pm: I felt it strongly by 30 minutes. By an hour I was pretty sure that it is more than 2C-B-fly. By 1.5 hours I felt that my heart may open, but it did not. By 2.5 hours I felt that I had reached the plateau and was bored, and disappointed. I took cannabis vapor at 3:00 pm, and this was the beginning of a full heart opening. It took until perhaps 3:30 or so before the heart fully opened, but certainly it had done so by 4:00 pm. At this point I could not feel the cannabis at all. This beautiful state lasted many hours longer than the cannabis would be expected to. I felt that I was of a philosophical mind, and could write beautiful language about the human condition. I found that this state is what makes life worth living. This is what I want out of life. I was not incapacitated in any way, and felt that I could go through life in this state, and would be better for it. I felt the rebirth of my love for my wife, no small thing. I have taken 2C-B-fly several times at various doses, and it was always relatively boring. This was completely different, much more than 2C-B-fly alone. It was spectacular that the primer/probe method worked. Clonidine (unlike 2C-B-fly) is a beautiful psychedelic. I felt that I recognized a sensibility of continuity in my thoughts, e.g. thinking about the changes we go through as we mature from childhood through adolescence into adulthood. I observed: “I believe that I feel a sense of continuity, in that I exist in the moment, and in the time around it. I occupy a greater temporal breadth. This provides a great connection.” I was very present, but not just in the moment. (Shulgin 2016) Pharm 2 , p. 25
A reddit thread about the question:
https://www.reddit.com/r/researchchemicals/comments/5xod19/2cbfly_rilmenidineclonidine/
Personally I would take it with a giant grain of salt, but could be interesting to keep exploring the relationship between imidazoline agonist, psychedelics, and maybe the inclusion of THC for the sake of science