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Recovery, zealots and pain!!!

C

Chriscom

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
38
Location
Glasgow
Hi all. I was having a look through the threads and couldn't find many on recovery from addiction. Loads on detox, cold turkey, side affects and tapering but i couldn't see any on the pitfalls of maintaining a life without drugs.

I'm sure there are some but i'm navigating the mobile site and not with much success.

Anyway, I've been in recovery for seven years. By recovery i mean complete abstinence. I was a heroin addict for 15 years off and on. The 'off' periods were always filled with booze and other more socially acceptable drugs and always ended with relapse. Eventually it was painful enough that i realised i had to stop getting high and that the issue wasn't limited to a specific drug.

Problem was after a week or two i was insane. I guess taking drugs every day for year after year means that you don't learn certain skills for coping with the daily mundanities of life. So i found my way into the recovery fellowships, took their program on board and lived happily ever after. Not quite... A few years into abstinence I was diagnosed with a condition that brings with it chronic pain. I wrestled with it and went white knuckle for a while but eventually had to start on the dreaded painkillers.

Now with the abstinence zealots in the fellowships there is only black or white. You are either clean or using so it was very hard to explain that i was now using opiates for a medical reason. It was all denial denial denial which bugged the fucking life out me the way it does when religious people tell me i'm a sinner and have no morals. I drifted away from meetings and spent a horrible 18 months trying to manage this painkiller dependence as my tolerance got higher and higher.

A month ago i went cold turkey and was able to break my habit. I still have pregablin daily and tramadol when i need them but they barely touch the pain. I found myself at a meeting last night and enjoyed it although not in the dependent way i used to.

So how do people in recovery deal with chronic pain without using meds? I'm not someone who is able to use opiate meds as prescribed for long periods of time and any feedback on the experience of others would be most welcome. Thank you. ��
 
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Hi there (and welcome to the site).

I'm not sure if you have seen our 'Sober Living' Section? It sounds like the place your looking for.

I have moved your post over and I have also added a few paragraphs/full stops etc as people tend to ignore a wall of text (please edit as you wish).

We also have the EADD section (local shop for local people) if you fancy a ramble.

Safe my friend
 
[MENTION=121739]Bearlove[/MENTION]. Thank you. Much obliged. I'll check out that section :)
[MENTION=276338]neversickanymore[/MENTION] hi there, yeah sorry about that. I have a thing called costocondritis. Its basically inflamation of the costal joints where the ribs meet the sternum and back. Its not always chronic for everyone but i've had it a number of years now without respite so i dont hold out too much hope of it just ceasing. :)
 
Damn that sounds painful. My best advice regarding AA/NA is too use the parts you like and leave the rest for the drama queens and wannabe Sunday school teachers. The fact that you where able to cold turkey off the pain meds tells me everything I need to know about your recovery from addiction. Most addicts cant do that we have to wait until it all goes to hell and we are forced to make a move. That's my story anyway. So yeah it sounds to me like you are doing pretty well all things considered.
 
Hi Chriscom and welcome to Bluelight! There are some threads that deal with the later stages with recovery, but not many. I have 6 years clean from benzos, and two from alcohol so I think I can certainly relate on some levels. I've noticed that the grey area doesn't only exist for pain management, but anxiety as well. It certainly is a tricky topic, but I do believe there is a difference between using certain medications for legitimate therapeutic relief and recreational purposes, which I will address shortly.

Regarding the 12 step meetings, you are not the only person that finds certain philosophies and personalities in those rooms frustrating and difficult. However, in my experience there does seem to be a range of belief sets, and not everyone is as abstinence minded. I think NA is more open regarding the use of medication for legitimate medical purposes than AA. I've met several people who are in recovery that rely on pain medication to function as they have serious irrepairable back injuries that would leave them incapacitated without it. Along those lines I have also met people who are in maintenance programs and will be on them for life (their choice) to mitigate horrible opiate addictions as maintenance allows them to function. I have other examples but I think you get the point.

First, I don't think it's my place to judge how someone else handles their recovery - it's very personal and only they truly know themselves, so if they have found something that works for them I am happy for them. Addiction is such an insidious disease that if someone has found a way to overcome and live their life and be happy that I think everybody who suffers with the same affliction should be supportive that they have found a way to live a functional life.

With that being said, I think if somebody has dealt with the mental health issues that drove them to use, have taken the steps to thoroughly educate themselves with the disease model and the various recovery methods, and have been able to quit their drug of choice then they are actively in recovery. I think a large part of addiction lies with their mental state and current frame of mind.

In cases of chronic pain management if the only options are to use pain pills or totally not function then I think it's possible for somebody to utilize pain management and still maintain an active recovery. If they're taking the medication as prescribed and aren't abusing it, I think that there still sober as the frame of mind is completely different than the frame of mind of someone who is in active addiction.

For the people in those meetings to argue and say that somebody is not sober because of medical treatment, is being unfair and grieviously unsupportive. I have often wondered why they take that position and where it's coming from. I can't help but to feel that they are just displacing their resentments onto that person because they're bitter that they cannot actively use. When I meet people like that it really makes me question the stability of their sobriety because they aren't focusing on the larger picture.

Anybody that has battled addiction and made it to the other side knows how difficult that fight is. To not be supportive of a group member because they have an illness that is out of their control and requires specific medication goes against the tenants that the group was founded on.

Personally, I don't think those people are healthy and I don't think that they have a solid sobriety themselves. It makes me feel that they are close to relapse as they still have mental health issues to work through. I say that because they're not only actively judging somebody else's recovery, but they're also voicing their opinion's in a manner that is potentially harmful to the person with the illness. Regardless of where a person is at in the recovery they are still fragile. Being negatively judged and told that you are failing is harmful, and having to deal with that on top of a medical condition accumulates stress quickly, and stress can erode a solid recovery foundation that was built. I think the people in those groups that behave that way are doing more harm than good and I can't help but to think they're aware of the damage that they are potentially doing to another person, and they gain satisfaction from feeling superior. To me that seems like they have unresolved issues and resentments, and are insecure.

I think the single most important factor in recovery is frame of mind and the relationship one has with themselves. An addict in recovery knows when they're doing well, and they know when they're messing up, regardless of whether they admit it to somebody else or not.

In your situation. You have enough experience with opiates and addiction to gauge your present use. You have a medical condition that needs to be treated, and when you take an opiate you know exactly why you're taking it. I sincerely hope you don't dictate your actions based upon negative statements from group members as they don't have to live your life and deal with your afflictions. It's a quality of life issue - you have fought that battle and made it to the other side - it seems pointless to have gone through all that hard work and effort to not be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

I'm sorry this is so long, it's a valid topic and one that doesn't get mentioned frequently enough. I am very passionate about it if you can't tell lol. If you enjoy the socialization and commraderie of the group continue going and just don't let others know you are taking pain pills for medical reasons. Normally I don't advise being secretive, but you don't deserve harsh judgement. Get to know the people, I'm sure you will find that not everyone shares those views, and for the ones that don't, open up to them in private. Good luck!
 
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^very interesting and spot on regarding medication.

Just a word about AA/NA meetings; I have met lots of people who need these meetings. I have never personally been bothered by them at all, even when I was under MMT. I have stopped using after a great battle. But it wasn't because of the group. They are not there to judge but they do have a lot of different opinions which only makes these places interesting as you have your freedom to say what you need to say. What makes you feel good. It's more like testimonies. And hearing different experiences is what makes it interesting for me. Not to mention that aside the literal understanding or following or not of the 12 steps for me it was always about their goal which is sobriety and self acceptance of your condition.

What I have noticed is that everyone has their turn to speak and they do that freely. That's what's makes us comfortable. I have seen drunk people turned to sobriety during the periods they have been on these meetings. And from some testimonies of people who has achieved 15 or 20 years of sobriety their beginning could be questionable if you were to back in time and judge these people for what they were. I have never felt obliged to follow their lines. Not at all, not anywhere. From my experience it seems these groups change a lot in different places. But that is one place I am always comfortable considering my condition.
 
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Moreaux said:
Hi Chriscom and welcome to Bluelight! There are some threads that deal with the later stages with recovery, but not many. I have 6 years clean from benzos, and two from alcohol so I think I can certainly relate on some levels. I've noticed that the grey area doesn't only exist for pain management, but anxiety as well. It certainly is a tricky topic, but I do believe there is a difference between using certain medications for legitimate therapeutic relief and recreational purposes, which I will address shortly.

Regarding the 12 step meetings, you are not the only person that finds certain philosophies and personalities in those rooms frustrating and difficult. However, in my experience there does seem to be a range of belief sets, and not everyone is as abstinence minded. I think NA is more open regarding the use of medication for legitimate medical purposes than AA. I've met several people who are in recovery that rely on pain medication to function as they have serious irrepairable back injuries that would leave them incapacitated without it. Along those lines I have also met people who are in maintenance programs and will be on them for life (their choice) to mitigate horrible opiate addictions as maintenance allows them to function. I have other examples but I think you get the point.

First, I don't think it's my place to judge how someone else handles their recovery - it's very personal and only they truly know themselves, so if they have found something that works for them I am happy for them. Addiction is such an insidious disease that if someone has found a way to overcome and live their life and be happy that I think everybody who suffers with the same affliction should be supportive that they have found a way to live a functional life.

With that being said, I think if somebody has dealt with the mental health issues that drove them to use, have taken the steps to thoroughly educate themselves with the disease model and the various recovery methods, and have been able to quit their drug of choice then they are actively in recovery. I think a large part of addiction lies with their mental state and current frame of mind.

In cases of chronic pain management if the only options are to use pain pills or totally not function then I think it's possible for somebody to utilize pain management and still maintain an active recovery. If they're taking the medication as prescribed and aren't abusing it, I think that there still sober as the frame of mind is completely different than the frame of mind of someone who is in active addiction.

For the people in those meetings to argue and say that somebody is not sober because of medical treatment, is being unfair and grieviously unsupportive. I have often wondered why they take that position and where it's coming from. I can't help but to feel that they are just displacing their resentments onto that person because they're bitter that they cannot actively use. When I meet people like that it really makes me question the stability of their sobriety because they aren't focusing on the larger picture.

Anybody that has battled addiction and made it to the other side knows how difficult that fight is. To not be supportive of a group member because they have an illness that is out of their control and requires specific medication goes against the tenants that the group was founded on.

Personally, I don't think those people are healthy and I don't think that they have a solid sobriety themselves. It makes me feel that they are close to relapse as they still have mental health issues to work through. I say that because they're not only actively judging somebody else's recovery, but they're also voicing their opinion's in a manner that is potentially harmful to the person with the illness. Regardless of where a person is at in the recovery they are still fragile. Being negatively judged and told that you are failing is harmful, and having to deal with that on top of a medical condition accumulates stress quickly, and stress can erode a solid recovery foundation that was built. I think the people in those groups that behave that way are doing more harm than good and I can't help but to think they're aware of the damage that they are potentially doing to another person, and they gain satisfaction from feeling superior. To me that seems like they have unresolved issues and resentments, and are insecure.

I think the single most important factor in recovery is frame of mind and the relationship one has with themselves. An addict in recovery knows when they're doing well, and they know when they're messing up, regardless of whether they admit it to somebody else or not.

In your situation. You have enough experience with opiates and addiction to gauge your present use. You have a medical condition that needs to be treated, and when you take an opiate you know exactly why you're taking it. I sincerely hope you don't dictate your actions based upon negative statements from group members as they don't have to live your life and deal with your afflictions. It's a quality of life issue - you have fought that battle and made it to the other side - it seems pointless to have gone through all that hard work and effort to not be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

I'm sorry this is so long, it's a valid topic and one that doesn't get mentioned frequently enough. I am very passionate about it if you can't tell lol. If you enjoy the socialization and commraderie of the group continue going and just don't let others know you are taking pain pills for medical reasons. Normally I don't advise being secretive, but you don't deserve harsh judgement. Get to know the people, I'm sure you will find that not everyone shares those views, and for the ones that don't, open up to them in private. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Probably one of the best posts I have read in a long time. I needed that today. Thank you
 
first of all a massive thanks to everyone who replied. I really appreciate you all taking the time and i'll try to work through your points and feedback.
[MENTION=276338]neversickanymore[/MENTION] I was initially on Nsaids but they didnt do much and really tore my stomach apart. You're right in what you say about opiates not doing much for the inflamnation itself but they do help with the pain caused by it and also the secondary pain caused by change in posture etc.
[MENTION=180594]Moreaux[/MENTION] Thank you for the welcome. Its a really cool forum you have here. The fellowship that i found my way into was actually Cocaine Anonymous. In my city NA has become a bit of a gang hut and the 12 steps have been diluted a bit through some poor sponsorship. Just in my opinion of course.

I totally agree with you about the mindset of those who become self righteous about medications. I think they are deflecting from some discontentment they have with their own recovery. I let myself become affected by their opinions because of my own insecurity. The problem being that even though i was using the drugs for pain relief i couldnt help but enjoy the effect they evoked and as my tolerance grew and i became dependent i always questioned whether i was taking them for pain or pleasure. The pain was always there though so it was easy to justify and addiction being as insidious as it is it found a way to separate me from the thing that acted as an antidote to it.

I think any kind of ill thought out judgement by these individuals based soley on their own opinions rather than experience can be hugely harmful and especially to the guy who's pretty new and doesnt yet trust his own judgement. For example the guy without a family or job who preaches to the new guy who has both of these that he has to be at a meeting every day or relapse is imminent. Where does it say that in the text?

I've always kept a fairly tight group of close friends within the meetings and fortunately i still hve those people and my home group really is a little oasis of serenity. Oh i forgot to mention that i work in addictions and homelessness and that was tough also. The niggling doubts that i was still clean were eating away at me and affecting my ability to be of some use to the people i worked with who were sick. I started to feel cynical and impatient a lot of the time. The pills and my own wonky thinking definitely disconnected me from the peace and serenity i had tapped into in my early years. Okay so i feel as if i'm rambling on a bit so i'll leave it there for now. Sorry if i didnt address anyones points but i'll have another look and try to get back to you shortly. Thanks again for the feedback and i hope you all have a peaceful day wherever you find yourselves today. ?
 
Chriscom said:
[MENTION=276338]neversickanymore[/MENTION] I was initially on Nsaids but they didnt do much and really tore my stomach apart. You're right in what you say about opiates not doing much for the inflamnation itself but they do help with the pain caused by it and also the secondary pain caused by change in posture etc.
Click to expand...

JUst some things to mull over.. how many of the nsaids did you try. There are quite a few in this family and we all seem to react differently. So while some may do crappy one or two in the family often work well.

Another thing to think about is addiction and how it plays with our minds.. I used to work an MD like a simple childs puzzle to get what my addiction wanted. Your posts remind me of the manipulation i used to easily sell to the drs I wanted the permission slips from. I am by no means saying your full of it, but maybe take a peak and make sure you have not swallowed your own bs.

This post is meant to try and help you and is in no way intended to do anything else.<3
 
[MENTION=276338]neversickanymore[/MENTION]. Haha yeah i hear you. I tried ibuprofen, Diclofenac and Naproxen. I still used them alongside the pain pills now and again but any sustained use hit my stomach really hard. I ended up having to go for a colonoscopy. Wether the Nsaids were completely responsible i'm unsure but they certainly didnt help.

As for the doctor i was as skilled a manipulator as the next addict. The saving grace was that i've had the same doc since i was at the very start of my addiction issues away back when i was a teenager so he was well aware of the kind of shit that i used to pull. Initially i believe i was honest with him and also outlined my fears which he shared. As my tolerance grew and i started to need higher doses i asked him outright to increase the dose or give me stronger meds. Beyond a certain point he just refused outright.

Its down to him rather than me that i was able to kick most of the meds. I was stuck on a level that didnt work anymore and didnt have the stomach ( yet ) to get involved in the hustle and grind of buying street drugs. If he had kept upping my dose i would just have carried on. As it was i took two weeks off work and jumped off using pregablin and a tiny amount of tramadol for the WD's.

I guess part of my reason for posting here is to be called out on any obvious bullshit as i can find ways to justify anything. At the same time someone earlier mentioned quality of life and i am really weary from being in pain all the time. Its affected every area of my life. I was pretty fit and loved lifting weights and running which is mostly gone now. My relationship with my partner and kids has been affected although they are sympathetic and supportive. Self esteem, self image and all that kind of flowery stuff. It just seems that there is no real solution which just has to be accepted i suppose. No one said it woud be easy ?
 
Deep down we know when we're thinking with the addict brain. In early recover I forced myself to quit playing doctor with myself. When I would see my physician I would tell him my symptoms and let him act instead of telling him what was going on and what I wanted outside of naltrexone, Indural, and retain-A. It was tough, and sometimes I had to intervene in some cases. Once I injured myself and he wanted to give me muscle relaxers. I never had an issue with them but I did hear enough people in rehab talk about the specific one he was going to give me that I decline it, though I was more concerned about the damage I did to myself as I had dislocated my thumb :/

Today I have surgery in a few hours and for the last month I have been obsessing about pain relief. I've decided to ask for tramadol to be kept in the queue. If the pain is bad enough I will have my husband fill it and he will be the keeper of the pills. I do trust myself at this point in my recovery, but I also know how I am when something triggers a dopamine response so I've decided to add a few layers of intervention between myself and the pain pills.

In your first post you mention non-medication options - have you tried a low inflammation diet? There are foods that will greatly reduce inflammation. Once I got sober I switched to a clean diet. I juice in the mornings and eat primarily whole foods. Aside from our bloodwork being stellar now, a lot of our inflammation has gone down. I had arthritis in my feet, and it's all but disappeared. It takes time to get used to eating this way, but I physically feel healthier now than I did in my twenties, and I'll be 40 next year. I would also
look into yoga.

Since your pain is localized and close to the surface, have you looked into topicals? There are a few that have neurontin that I hear are pretty decent. I don't have direct experience with them, but I know other people who use them and say they work. Along those lines I have heard that cbd oil both topical and internal is great for joint inflammation.

Sorry I don't have any better ideas. I read through your responses and it does seem like the pain pills are an issue, but then again so is the pain. I think you need to have open and honest conversations with both your wife and your doctor. Maybe try to see a specialist to see if there are other alternatives.
 
[MENTION=180594]Moreaux[/MENTION]
Good luck with your op today. I hope it goes well and doesnt leave you in too much discomfort. Tramadol is a strange drug. It works better on pain for me than any of the weaker opiates but the SRRI function leaves me feeling a bit strange. At least i presume thats what it is. The positive thing about them in comparison to codeine and the like is that I definitely dont enjoy the effect they evoke. It feels unlike any opiod i've used and is not something i would choose to use recreationally.

Thank you for all the other suggestions. The clean diet is something i've tried hard to maintain. I found it much easier when i was still able to train. When that started to suffer my motivation to keep up the diet suffered also. Or during times of severe pain grilled fish with greens seemed much less welcoming than pizza and ice cream. Haha. Madness of course as the crappy food exacerbates the pain.

I'm seeing a pain specialist at the moment so hopefully i'm able to access some acupuncture or other alternative therapies that could prove beneficial. Yoga is something i've threatened to try for ages without getting round to it. I enjoy meditation and find it helpful for my mind if not necessarily the pain itself.

So its not all doom and gloom and i am in the fortunate position of having some support and living in a country where health care is free. When i first got clean and worked through the program and had the series of spiritual experiences that come with that i felt invinsible. I had went from deaths door to being revitalised in a few months and my life changed beyond measure. There was always going to come a time of challenging circumstances and i guess that time is now. There seems to be some kind of weird cosmic irony involved in abusing pain medication for so many years only to be struck down with pain after i stop. Karma or something? Lol who knows. ?
 
Unfortunately cannabis is still illegal here. I think there is some very limited medical use but its not something i would have access too. Our government is very much about emotion over evidence when it comes to progressive drug policies. I'll look for some info online then perhaps trawl the net for availability if its something that could help. Thank you.
 
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Hi Chriscom,

your story really struck a nerve with me, as I'm just (hopefully) recovering from cervical neuritis (radiculopathy). Me being 30 days past a sizeable opiod addiction left me exquisitly vulnerable to the pain, which stabilized yday all day long at 6.5 with spikes to 8. Couldn't drive, dress myself etc. Now I'm at level 1 or 2, so relieved! So I really, really feel for you, those few hours were more painful than a shattered elbow or hiking hours with a dislocated shoulder. Nerve pain sucks.

I did have some ideas however, since it sounds like you're looking for CURE, not just a different pain treatment. So first of all, the cause of your condition is undiagnosed, correct? Or is it a benign tumor, or infection, or what? If your 'idiopathic' it's probably a chronic infection.

There are some really effective ways to deal with those besides the regular anti-biotic courses on offer.

#1: Look into what's prescribed for infections of prosthetic hips, etc. Those medicines need to be taken for months but can be very effective for bone/cartilage stuff. Some are not available in the USA. A good one is fusidic acid, called Taksta. An aquaintance who like me is into the more extreme of sports took it once, but he had to do the medical tourism thing to get it.

#2: Indian / Oriental Diet. I'm not kidding, if you want to cure this you have to fight. Become a balanced vegan for a year (watch your amino acids), maybe supplement that with some occasional fish. Eat tons of veggies, and the following spices n things which are supposed to help with viruses etc: Curry for the Turmeric it contains, Chinese five spice, pretty much all fresh and fragrant spices, and as many fresh asian medicinal mushrooms you can aquire. I especially like fresh matsutake for it's cinnamon flavor (hard to find though) and fresh shiitake (which I've just had an hour ago, love that pungent, winey flavor they have! I can taste it on my breath still ..) There are a bunch of different herbs you can take too, but their names elude me at present. I really believe in the vegan / turmeric / mushroom combo though, and studies back it up (unlike the herbs). I'm pretty rational if I do say so myself but you have to believe in this. Placebo effect is powerful stuff. With this diet you really have a reason to expect great things!!!!!!

Those are my two suggestions. One last question: When you sit still, do you subconsciously tap your feet, legs or fingers? That's a sure-fire way to tell you're eating wrong. With a healthy diet your body should be free of inflammation and relaxed. This observation really works btw, I use it all the time on people and have confirmed it dozens and dozens of times. Let me know what you think!
 
Hi @Sunspot.

Thanks for replying. My pain was suspected to be a condition called Costocondritis but in the last few days i had blood results that say my inflammation markers are low. I find it really weird as i already have arthritis in my feet so thought that would lead to a high reading anyway. I dont really know the science of this though so i'm just guessing there. As for the rib, side and back pain if its not costo then i'm kind of back to square one. Pregablin help to some degree so its possible there is nerve damage present.

You're advice on clean eating is well recieved though. I do eat fairly well but need to cut certain carbs from my diet and the weekend sugar hits when i'm out with my kids. Turmeric is a known anti-inflammatory along with quite a few others. One of the issues i've had with eating certain diets is cost. My elsest daughter has a pretty severe nut allergy. She's also allergic to sesame and a few other seeds so it often involves making different meals.

How are you recovering from your own condition? Are you pain free now? Chronic pain while in recovery from addiction to substances that are for chronic pain is pretty damn challenging. Hope you're well friend. Thanks again. ?
 
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