recovery time

[First Bad Comedown]

cryptix420,

I do not respond well to ignorant criticism.
All you need to do is read through my posts and you will find that my understanding of MDMA toxicity is above average. As is my ability to communicate.

Time after time, I have repeatedly found that the 1-1.5 year rule holds up.
This is easily found by reading through research or scouring the archives of Bluelight.

There are exceptions in both directions, but those that don't recover in the first month or two, tend to follow this timeline. Beyond the 2 year mark, it is rare to see clinically significant symptoms.

When I first began my research, I did not want to believe that it could take a year.
It was difficult to accept. But it was still the truth.

As time progressed, I became grateful that I had determined the answer. Knowing a reliable time frame that holds true for the majority of heavy users was a great source of comfort. It is a powerful piece of information for someone that is desperate for answers.

Neurologists that have experience with MDMA agree with this assessment - it is what they tell their desperate patients. So who the hell are you to stand in the way of this information?

I am no longer desperate, myself.
Most days I am quite functional and happy.
By the third month, I could tell that things would soon become tolerable - they won't be so extreme for the duration of the 1-1.5 years. This is important to communicate - it won't stay this bad for much longer.

I am not projecting 'anger' onto anyone. I answered this post out of sympathy, and a belief that I can help where so many others cannot.

I doubt the OP finds my post to be 'blabbing about MDMA', especially since we have already traded emails.

You on the other hand, have offered no substantial information.
Note the OP's complaint about 'bullshit replys'.

I do agree that 18 hours is WAY too long to be MDMA. It was probably a pipe.
However, the OP's previous use of MDMA likely set him up for this reaction.
While there is not much research available on piperazines yet, they are primarily serotonergic and likely overlap with MDMA recovery times.

Your comment about 'stop obsessing and live your life' parallels much of the ignorant advice handed out by others. If only you experienced it for yourself, you would realize there is NO way around the suffering. Would you give such cavalier advice to someone with obvious brain injury or severe mental illness?

Cortisol causes up-regulation of SERT.
Does that make any sense to you?

When people have acute outcomes from MDMA or other serotonergic agents, they have damaged the very pathways that control the endocrine response. That means that the endocrine system is in control of the healing process, not the person. Does that compute?

Only through intense suffering and 'obsession' does the brain begin to recover. Any good therapist will try to draw anger out of their patient. There is a belief that 'depression' is simply a defense mechanism against extreme anger. Many depressed people are simply VERY angry, and they don't even know it. I have recommended the expression of anger/rage to many former MDMA and SSRI users.

Personally, I have found that allowing the depression and anxiety to boil over into anger....or even causing it on purpose...has made the most profound difference.
In contrast to the repeated and useless advice on 'getting over it', I encourage these people to embrace their dark side...to let the anger/rage/neurotransmitters flow.

If an intense emotional experience from MDMA/pipes can damage someone, perhaps a LONG period of intense emotion/anxiety is required to recover.

I do agree with you about not re-using MDMA. It is NOT a good idea for anyone in recovery. While it may cause certain pathways that have been dormant to 'flicker on', it will only be temporary and may cause further delay of recovery.

However, your claim about doing plenty of pipes and 'being very healthy' is the LEAST helpful post in this entire thread. The OP has a right to be pissed at you. Take your bragging elsewhere.

On the other hand, why don't you just go on taking pipes/MDMA as much as you want. You should try to prove all of my 'babbling' wrong. Then you can return in another year or two and show me up!

Good luck.

 

[socalthizzn]

just updating on a few things.

i just got back from walmart, and while i was there i was looking down at my phone reading through bluelight and i noticed i get this dizzy feeling, like a drunk spinning feeling in my head, almost feels like an earthquake is going on, and i feel like im sawying a little bit.

is that coming from mdma and piperazine, or from my ssri and antiphsycotic?

also, before drug use i was the most layed back, go with the flow person, with i do admit, a little hiden temper, but i had never previously been in a fight, and it took a lot to get me going.

since then, ive been jumped and i have incredible road rage. anytime a person stares at me for a minute, im quick to be like, "what you lookin at motherfucker?" and ready to brawl. mind you im only 135lbs 5'9" and 18 years old.

is this from meds, drug abuse, or homones.

how have you been thizzin since 98'? U were 5 in 1998 if you 18 now.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Lol....he said its an inside joke.

Or maybe we should just imagine a 5 year old with VERY neglectful parents.
I'm sure we aren't going to be the last people to question him about his username...
That's why I made mine so obvious...no doubt there.

 

[socalthizzn]

^ oic. i was Kinda hoping for an epic Story about rolling while at kindergarten.

 

[saturatedlies]

Don't worry man, I have been through pretty much the exact same thing. You say that your friend also took a pill from the same batch and was fine? You may of been deficit in a certain enzyme that breaks down whatever chemical you did take and this is why this happened. Apparently this happens to about 10% of people. You may have done some damage BUT it probably isn't permanent and takes anywhere between 6-18 months to recover (this is coming from a neurologist from london bridge hospital) Stop taking the SSRI's dude, they contain the same chemical that got you in this mess. Get in the sun and get some exercise and get 5 portions of fruit and veg a day and read/do maths puzzles. Take omega-3 fish oil tablets and piracetam - you can get it online. These will do wonders for cognition and increasing recovery time. If its bothering you loads go and see a doctor! And also ignore all these idiots saying it's all in your head and MDMA is completely harmless - it's not. Accidents can and will happen, even when your totally sensible. Also somedud I can't wait for your post in two weeks time saying how much you fucked yourself rolling again after you messed up your head. Just like the last time you thought it was a good idea.

 

[cryptix420]

cryptix420,

I do not respond well to ignorant criticism.
All you need to do is read through my posts and you will find that my understanding of MDMA toxicity is above average. As is my ability to communicate.

Time after time, I have repeatedly found that the 1-1.5 year rule holds up.
This is easily found by reading through research or scouring the archives of Bluelight.

There are exceptions in both directions, but those that don't recover in the first month or two, tend to follow this timeline. Beyond the 2 year mark, it is rare to see clinically significant symptoms.

When I first began my research, I did not want to believe that it could take a year.
It was difficult to accept. But it was still the truth.

As time progressed, I became grateful that I had determined the answer. Knowing a reliable time frame that holds true for the majority of heavy users was a great source of comfort. It is a powerful piece of information for someone that is desperate for answers.

Neurologists that have experience with MDMA agree with this assessment - it is what they tell their desperate patients. So who the hell are you to stand in the way of this information?

I am no longer desperate, myself.
Most days I am quite functional and happy.
By the third month, I could tell that things would soon become tolerable - they won't be so extreme for the duration of the 1-1.5 years. This is important to communicate - it won't stay this bad for much longer.

I am not projecting 'anger' onto anyone. I answered this post out of sympathy, and a belief that I can help where so many others cannot.

I doubt the OP finds my post to be 'blabbing about MDMA', especially since we have already traded emails.

You on the other hand, have offered no substantial information.
Note the OP's complaint about 'bullshit replys'.

I do agree that 18 hours is WAY too long to be MDMA. It was probably a pipe.
However, the OP's previous use of MDMA likely set him up for this reaction.
While there is not much research available on piperazines yet, they are primarily serotonergic and likely overlap with MDMA recovery times.

Your comment about 'stop obsessing and live your life' parallels much of the ignorant advice handed out by others. If only you experienced it for yourself, you would realize there is NO way around the suffering. Would you give such cavalier advice to someone with obvious brain injury or severe mental illness?

Cortisol causes up-regulation of SERT.
Does that make any sense to you?

When people have acute outcomes from MDMA or other serotonergic agents, they have damaged the very pathways that control the endocrine response. That means that the endocrine system is in control of the healing process, not the person. Does that compute?

Only through intense suffering and 'obsession' does the brain begin to recover. Any good therapist will try to draw anger out of their patient. There is a belief that 'depression' is simply a defense mechanism against extreme anger. Many depressed people are simply VERY angry, and they don't even know it. I have recommended the expression of anger/rage to many former MDMA and SSRI users.

Personally, I have found that allowing the depression and anxiety to boil over into anger....or even causing it on purpose...has made the most profound difference.
In contrast to the repeated and useless advice on 'getting over it', I encourage these people to embrace their dark side...to let the anger/rage/neurotransmitters flow.

If an intense emotional experience from MDMA/pipes can damage someone, perhaps a LONG period of intense emotion/anxiety is required to recover.

I do agree with you about not re-using MDMA. It is NOT a good idea for anyone in recovery. While it may cause certain pathways that have been dormant to 'flicker on', it will only be temporary and may cause further delay of recovery.

However, your claim about doing plenty of pipes and 'being very healthy' is the LEAST helpful post in this entire thread. The OP has a right to be pissed at you. Take your bragging elsewhere.

On the other hand, why don't you just go on taking pipes/MDMA as much as you want. You should try to prove all of my 'babbling' wrong. Then you can return in another year or two and show me up!

Good luck.

Lol. Quite the pretentious arse, you are. 8)


You've missed the entire point I've been trying to make. I don't feel that the OP's problems REALLY stem all from piperazine or MDMA use, it's probably a combination of that and poor lifestyle choices and prescription SSRI's.

Keep on truckin' though.

 

[waketheeffup]

just updating on a few things.

i just got back from walmart, and while i was there i was looking down at my phone reading through bluelight and i noticed i get this dizzy feeling, like a drunk spinning feeling in my head, almost feels like an earthquake is going on, and i feel like im sawying a little bit.

is that coming from mdma and piperazine, or from my ssri and antiphsycotic?

also, before drug use i was the most layed back, go with the flow person, with i do admit, a little hiden temper, but i had never previously been in a fight, and it took a lot to get me going.

since then, ive been jumped and i have incredible road rage. anytime a person stares at me for a minute, im quick to be like, "what you lookin at motherfucker?" and ready to brawl. mind you im only 135lbs 5'9" and 18 years old.

is this from meds, drug abuse, or homones.

Hormones and drug abuse. 18 year old kids are like testosterone overloaded roided out gorilla babies.

if you are on an antipsychotic and SSRI i believe you shouldn't spend much time with drugs man, predisposed conditions are a bitch if triggered from my understanding.

 

[rakketakke]

No worries firstbadcomedown your post is nothing but truth.

 

[socalthizzn]

I don't feel that the OP's problems REALLY stem all from piperazine or MDMA use, it's probably a combination of that and poor lifestyle choices and prescription SSRI's.

^this is how i feel about this as well.

Hormones and drug abuse. 18 year old kids are like testosterone overloaded roided out gorilla babies.

if you are on an antipsychotic and SSRI i believe you shouldn't spend much time with drugs man, predisposed conditions are a bitch if triggered from my understanding.

I also feel this^ is the reason for :

just updating on a few things.

i just got back from walmart, and while i was there i was looking down at my phone reading through bluelight and i noticed i get this dizzy feeling, like a drunk spinning feeling in my head, almost feels like an earthquake is going on, and i feel like im sawying a little bit.

is that coming from mdma and piperazine, or from my ssri and antiphsycotic?

also, before drug use i was the most layed back, go with the flow person, with i do admit, a little hiden temper, but i had never previously been in a fight, and it took a lot to get me going.

since then, ive been jumped and i have incredible road rage. anytime a person stares at me for a minute, im quick to be like, "what you lookin at motherfucker?" and ready to brawl. mind you im only 135lbs 5'9" and 18 years old.

is this from meds, drug abuse, or homones.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Pretentious arse?

Hmm....I see you have little to respond to me with, at this point.

It must be unpleasant to be put in your place.

Lets see why I even started after you...oh that's right, you came after me.
You didn't even open up with a 'point'.
You simply didn't like the certainty with which I present my beliefs.

You actually opened up by saying:
"@ firstbadcomedown... how the hell is it going to help anything telling this guy he's gonna need upwards of a year to recover? That's just stupid to be honest, and I feel like you're projecting a little of your own anger on the OP. Not to mention you blab on and on about MDMA when he's talking about piperazines."

Then you went on your own ramblings about the numerous OTHER possibilities that could cause his problem - lifestyle, diet, exercise, medications.

What do you NOT understand about 4 months of not feeling the same?
While his use of SSRIs can cause symptoms on their own, you are failing to see the most obvious point of all - he woke up the next day and felt different. He has continued to feel different. He has NO doubt about the cause, so who the 'hell' are you to suggest otherwise?

Who is the pretentious arse now?

You are simply in denial about the toxic effects of MDMA.
It is easy to throw out other explanations than to accept the most obvious/least convenient one.

One day, you may find out for yourself what its like to wake up every morning wondering if you are EVER going to feel normal again. Then you can deal with other people's strange desire to point the finger at alternative explanations, for their own convenience!

Preventing that from happening, is exactly why I 'keep trucking'.

Thanks for the support, rakketakke.
I know I speak the truth, but I can't make everyone listen.

 

[socalthizzn]

Lets have this discussion without name calling, its very unnessesary.

 

[mgmt&mdma]

Lets have this discussion without name calling, its very unnessesary.

yeah guys lets take it easy8(

 

[cryptix420]

Your view on things takes responsibility away from the individual. Big Pharm makes billions of dollars off this very principle, that you can simply take a pill and be cured of, well, anything really.


Great, he took a drug and woke up feeling different. This is not uncommon. What is extremely uncommon is to be having such severe symptoms such a long time later when the OP's usage wasn't even that heavy (compared to a lot of people who have abused MDMA)

I don't even know why I'm still arguing with you, it's just frustrating to me how you come off in your posts. MDMA is hardly the 'least convenient' thing to blame in this situation; it's exactly the opposite, actually. It would be much less convenient to confront actual problems in your life and claim responsibility for yourself rather than blame it all on the drugs.

 

[mgmt&mdma]

^^yeah thats a good point. i think he should just see a neurologist.

and/or follow my advice in my other post

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Thanks socal and mgmt...
You are right - name calling isn't going to change anything.

I reacted with hostility towards cryptix and I stooped to his level.
My mistake.

Actually, I am glad to see he wants to continue this debate, even if only briefly. After all, if I can't manage to argue with him, what chance do I have in convincing others of my point of view?

Cryptix, you are right about big pharm - fuck them.

Indeed, they place profit above the well-being of patients.
Most doctors that prescribe SSRIs are hardly even qualified to study the 5-HT network in depth.

However, some doctors devote years upon years to the study of this 'brain-gut' connection. I respect them, and so should all MDMA users. Those that don't, have not read the research.

These doctors have proven, with years of work and raw data, that MDMA can produce LONG-lasting/permanent alterations to this 'brain-gut' circuitry in a few short days of heavy dosing. It is safe to assume, that MDMA combined with piperazines, can do the same - perhaps quicker.

I would not suggest that blaming the pills is in-convenient for the OP. It is in-convenient for YOU. And others...

Why is it that most MDMA users on this site try to point blame elsewhere so quickly? Why do they not even consider the possibility that MDMA is the primary risk factor???

Research shows that it IS, rather clearly.
MDMA is a potent neurotoxin.
With repeated heavy doses, it can cause the entire serotonin cell body to die!

This means that it will speed up its own internal metabolic processes so much, that it will be dead at the ROOT (raphe nuclei).

This is profound.
It is also something that SSRIs and 'poor lifestyle' will NOT cause.
There is no amount of argument or name-calling that will change this.

How am I 'coming off' in this post?
Do you continue to dislike my approach?

What approach would you prefer?
What approach would frame this data in a manner that you find acceptable?

Honestly, I really want to know the answer.
The data on the risks of MDMA is so vast that it is astounding how many users refuse to see the truth until it is too late.

Really, cryptix...
What would it take?

If posts from users like this OP don't even scrape the surface of your resolve, what will?

I suppose I am fighting an uphill battle.
I am up against the 'magic' of MDMA.
Obviously, even I am under-prepared.

I guess I should set my hat down on this one.
I really hold no hostility towards you personally - just your cavalier attitude.
If you didn't know, it was such an attitude and lack of knowledge that landed me right where I am.

And countless others...

It is not as rare as you think, either.
Research shows that most heavy users discontinue use on their own.
That is as profound as anything else I have said.

 

[socalthizzn]

I think this thread has run its course. All angles of the argument have been debated throughly and have become redundent.

 

[somedud]

Weird eh? I was just throwing it out there with caution.

He'll no haha I consider myself a good looking dude, I've got HIGH standards, even when I'm drunk.

^ lmao, are you guys serious?

wow. 'take mdma man, it like, heals your brain and stuff, but it also like, totally fucks up your brain'....



@ somedud..... was she fat?


lol jk.

On a side note, I've probably done more piperazines than anyone in this thread and I'm a very healthy individual, more so physically than mentally though Just saying piperazines are not really as bad as a lot of people make them out to be. They still suck though, especially if you think you're getting MDMA.