Recommendations for a therapeutic psychedelic

[Perloo]

Hello...

I've become really interested in the psychotherapeutic benefits of psychedelic drugs and have read and watched some fascinating stuff about the clinical use of LSD in the 50's.

In particular, there's a brilliant documentary called "Hofmann's Potion" about LSD on the NFB website. Well worth a watch. In it, Myron Stolaroff describes giving LSD to subjects who then lay down comfortably in the dark with music playing for a few hours before discussing and integrating their experience.

This sort of thing is something I would love to experiment with myself, but LSD is unavailable to me so I was wondering which substance people on here thought had the most therapeutic potential for this kind of self discovery other than LSD?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TimeKeeper]

you may look into ayahuasca and ibogaine to pursue this interest.

i'm highly attracted to psychedelics largely to this aspect of their potential, but honestly i'm still at a point where i'm therapeutically fucked, so i've come to realize psychs are only a tool - no magic avenue - that can be used for growth. i'm also very curious what everyone has to say about applying this tool for therapeutic purposes.

 

[Perloo]

Ibogaine certainly looks very interesting, but too expensive for me at the moment. I hope to experience it someday though.

My concern with Ayahuasca (or Mescaline cactii) is the high body load. I'd really prefer something 'cleaner' in that respect. I'd certainly like to try Ayahuasca at some point, but ideally by travelling out to South America to consume it in a traditional, ritual setting.

 

[Solipsis]

What kinds of things are actually available to you? since it can be tough if you can only choose from a few ethnobotanicals and ayahuasca and iboga are off the table.

Mescaline cacti are a good choice but not always as easy to dose and definitely not cheap.

We don't discuss whether it's condoned or not to break your country's laws and we don't discuss vendors but there are lots of suited drugs like mushrooms or synthetic tryptamines.

You mention therapy but what do you actually want to apply it to. Would you just like to have a psychedelic journey, an oceanic experience, do you want to do some emotional work and revise old memories, do you want to dive deep rationally and think about yourself and the world, about problems solutions mechanisms and metaphysics?

Without any more specifics all that can be said is yes psychedelics would be suitable for many things, different ones especially for different things. The so-called classic psychedelics cover a lot of terrain and they are mescaline, mushrooms, LSD (and ayahuasca) mainly.

Another example is that mescaline has very good emotional release qualities, exquisite even. And they are also in other forms found in a drug like 2C-T-7.
Tryptamines on the other hand while also being plenty emotional sometimes have especially good spiritual value in my experience.

 

[Perloo]

What kinds of things are actually available to you? since it can be tough if you can only choose from a few ethnobotanicals and ayahuasca and iboga are off the table.

I have access to vendors selling a wide range of phens and tryptamines, but don't move in the 'right social circles' for LSD.

I have experience with smoked DMT and some 4 substituted tryps including mushrooms and have had some enlightening experiences. I tried LSD many years ago and HBWR but they were largely low dose recreational experiences. I guess I'm looking for something a little deeper and more powerful but there are so many different substances, each with their own nuances that it makes it hard to decide which one would be suitable without testing them all. Hence the request for advice.

You mention therapy but what do you actually want to apply it to. Would you just like to have a psychedelic journey, an oceanic experience, do you want to do some emotional work and revise old memories, do you want to dive deep rationally and think about yourself and the world, about problems solutions mechanisms and metaphysics?

OK, I guess I'm looking to explore and work through some of my fears and insecurities. Delve into my subconcious and confront some stuff. Hopefully shake off some of my unhealthy thought processes and behaviours. I guess I'm looking for an inward journey to unlock myself in the way LSD can do very well. Does that make sense?

 

[any major dude]

4-AcO-DMT & 2C-E both are pretty amenable to therapeutic type experiences. High doses of 2c-d have also been used successfully in therapy, under the name LE-25 i believe. I'd also recommend reading some of LSD Psychotherapy by Stan Grof & The Secret Chief by Myron Stolaroff. They both outline some effective techniques for psychedelic psychotherapy. I think the techniques are a bit more important than the drug itself.

 

[thizztoad420]

Dimethyl triptamine DMT---personal fav....read DMT the spirit molocule, u may like it...do some research intop psychadelics and DMT.

Mescaline(san pedro thats all i could get)-MADE me understand shamanic thinking...the feeling is uyndescribably sry...amazing

Ketamine-believe it or not...a very deep K hole can be a very enlightning ecperience for some

DPT--Very intense inverse thinking...

These are my personal Favorites near to LSD...Maybe pure MDMA might help to see beauty in some ppl...although i named two phene's...i think triptamines are better for theraputic reason....i found that phenes caused me many burnt out feelings...and sometimes depresion after using....triptamines actually seem to do the oppsite...acid is a little draining the next day but dealable...sometimes that depresion contereffects the beauty the person saw....triptamines i believe have stronger mental effects...i

 

[delta_9]

Just about any psychedelic (barring some phenethylamines) can be amazing for their therapeutic properties. Of course what's just as important is the set/setting they are taken in.

Something with a light 'body load' would be nice as well, as many people can 'psyche themselves out' with the nausea and discomfort that often comes with the early stages of many psychedelic drugs.

I would fancy a nice, short acting tryptamine for this purpose, perhaps psilocin(4-HO-DMT). I find this to be one of the most therapeutic and gentle compounds I have tried out of some 25+ tryptamines/phenethylamines/ergolines. Of course lsd is well known for this as well, but for some the duration can be too long and when dealing with things like blotters or tabs it's very difficult to determine dosage. And the right dosage is crucial for this sort of thing, at least in my experience.

Whatever the results, I would be interested to read them if you wouldn't mind posting them :D

 

[jamaica0535]

I think MDMA has wonderful potential for some powerful psychoemotional work.

Also from my own experiences, DMT is my choice, I go into it wanting to learn something, and the answers are usually provided. There are stories that border on religious experiences. Its a very warm and comforting drug.... The space is so foreign and new, but at the same time it is strangely familiar. The smell and taste become comforting out of association after a point.

LSD ended 4 years of depression in 1 night. DMT ended several months of depression. MDMA has made me a far more open, expressive, and empathic person.

 

[Solipsis]

I think Any Major Dude hit the nail right on the head, that was definitely somewhere around the lines of what I was thinking. I thought 2C-E for the introspection and thought pattern analysis, 4-AcO-DMT is good to go deep for some soul searching because surprisingly (to me) many other tryptamines actually tend to be fairly light compared to mushrooms. 4-HO-DiPT is much too light in my opinion (great recreationally though!), 4-HO-MiPT was quite weird though interesting and enjoyable, 4-AcO-MiPT was less weird for me and let me have a contemplative day.

I don't know if you still have some DMT left but if you want to make changes in your life oral DMT (with MAOI) really sounds like a good one for that. I myself feel like I should try that but I am lacking opportunity.

AMT is also very nice for openhearted introspection.

 

[blueberries]

every time i feel myself going a bit too far with life, i.e it getting a bit fucked up drinking too much, doing too many drugs, i drop 2c-e and the very next day im usually good until i reach another bad point, which is roughly every 6-12 months over the past 3 years, its like a psychotherapeutic cycle, i think im ready for my next one tonite tbf, mescaline and 4-aco-dmt have also worked this way for me and for my final hit ever i think im going to try ayahuasca but not for a few years yet ive got to live a bit first u know

 

[Perloo]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I agree with any major dude that the setting and techniques are more important than the chemical. I've researched a fair amount on this, including reading the Grof book mentioned.

My setting will be during the day in a darkened room listening to some ambient music in headphones, with my partner present as a sitter. Both my girlfriend and I are trained counsellors so used to doing emotional and psychological work, and although she is a relative new-comer to psychedelics she experienced enough to be a capable sitter.

With regards to DMT; my smoked experience with that a few years ago was one of the most incredible of my life. I gained some powerful insights in just a few minutes, but found some of the learning hard to integrate and remember. The main thing I took away from the experience was a feeling of being loved by the universe and a sense that I need to not over-think things too much. I've also had some pretty amazing experiences with mushrooms and psilacetin in relatively low doses. I found though that all these "DMT" related experiences seemed to be more about finding a connection to the universe, my girlfriend, or the world around me rather than connecting to something in myself if that makes sense? All very powerful and beautiful but not as "inward" or self-analytical as perhaps I'm looking for at the moment.

I think possibly two separate sessions might be in order; one with either 2c-e or 2c-d (which is a substance I've had my eye on anyway), and a second experience another time with either 4-Aco-DMT or 4-HO-DPT. I will be sure to post my experiences and offer my thoughts (and also those of my partner) afterwards.

Just as a side note, I will be taking MDMA for the first time in several years tonight, along with my girlfriend who has never tried it so I'll be interested to see what insights we gain from that too.

 

[adrian89987]

I highly recommend exploring more with 4-AcO-DMT. Though substances will often evoke different experiences in different people I find that psilacetin has me intensely scrutinizing myself. I repeatedly end up going over everything I need to improve about my general habits and discipline often resulting in me actually going on to improve myself in sober life.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

sublingual hbwr works extremely well for social anxiety, for me anyway. make sure its hawaiian strain though. MG's would probably work but sublingual would be extremely difficult in comparison to only having to pop 15 powdered hbwr seeds under the tongue.

 

[rollingstoned!]

^ !!! Me too! HBWR is wayyy underated as so many things. Especially as a precursor to use on people who haven't tripped on acid/shrooms/mescaline/2c-x/DOx. IMO anyone who hasn't tripped should eat some HBWR seeds before any of the aforementioned.

 

[IamMe90]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I agree with any major dude that the setting and techniques are more important than the chemical. I've researched a fair amount on this, including reading the Grof book mentioned.

My setting will be during the day in a darkened room listening to some ambient music in headphones, with my partner present as a sitter. Both my girlfriend and I are trained counsellors so used to doing emotional and psychological work, and although she is a relative new-comer to psychedelics she experienced enough to be a capable sitter.

With regards to DMT; my smoked experience with that a few years ago was one of the most incredible of my life. I gained some powerful insights in just a few minutes, but found some of the learning hard to integrate and remember. The main thing I took away from the experience was a feeling of being loved by the universe and a sense that I need to not over-think things too much. I've also had some pretty amazing experiences with mushrooms and psilacetin in relatively low doses. I found though that all these "DMT" related experiences seemed to be more about finding a connection to the universe, my girlfriend, or the world around me rather than connecting to something in myself if that makes sense? All very powerful and beautiful but not as "inward" or self-analytical as perhaps I'm looking for at the moment.

I think possibly two separate sessions might be in order; one with either 2c-e or 2c-d (which is a substance I've had my eye on anyway), and a second experience another time with either 4-Aco-DMT or 4-HO-DPT. I will be sure to post my experiences and offer my thoughts (and also those of my partner) afterwards.

Just as a side note, I will be taking MDMA for the first time in several years tonight, along with my girlfriend who has never tried it so I'll be interested to see what insights we gain from that too.

i've done both 2c-d and 2c-e at high doses and i'd recommend 2c-e for what you're looking for. 2c-d is more.. fun. but not particularly introspective or significant, or at least, not in the sense that 2c-e is.

 

[Ismene]

In it, Myron Stolaroff describes giving LSD to subjects who then lay down comfortably in the dark with music playing for a few hours before discussing and integrating their experience.

I'm not sure whether it's anymore valuable than staying sober and having therapy tho. I can't think of anything worse than sitting in a dark room on LSD before having to talk about my problems with a stranger.

To me, the benefit of LSD is in the experience itself - that's the catharsis. And a big part of that is having access to nature.

As for trying to integrate the lessons of the LSD experience into your everyday life, I'm not sure that ever works. Incorporating the lessons of LSD into your job at the slaughterhouse killng chickens is going to be extremely difficult for example. It's probably best to see the LSD as an adjunct to your everyday life rather than an integral part of it. As Lennon once said "The trip is the thing. What you do with it afterwards is what you do with it afterwards".

 

[effingcustie]

I highly recommend exploring more with 4-AcO-DMT. Though substances will often evoke different experiences in different people I find that psilacetin has me intensely scrutinizing myself. I repeatedly end up going over everything I need to improve about my general habits and discipline often resulting in me actually going on to improve myself in sober life.

I have the same experience with 4-aco-dmt. Although everyone else seems to think of it as very gentle whenever I do it I find it's very forceful in making me look at myself and my flaws. While this is ultimately a good thing I guess since it (hopefully) leads to me making positive changes, it does mean that most of my trips with it aren't particular fun or recreational. Personally when I think therapeutic I think of gentler substances like mdma, 2c-b, or mescaline, but I guess what therapy is to everyone is different.

 

[vibrancy3]

I think its DMT you want, it is the stongest psychadelic yeah, but if you treat with respeckt and start with low doses while slowly increasing dose when you feel confindent you will get on fine.

i started by 1st doing shrooms, lsd and finally dmt but still treated dmt with caution and now i can go into some amazing breakthroughs that jsut change your whole outlook on life for next week.

There are loads of tek's out there to extract it, but i prefer a simple STB tek

 

[Riemann Zeta]

If feasible, I would look into 2C-D--more than just about any other compound, I would recommend this one to a psychedelic novice looking for a gentle, emotionally warm, relatively brief compound.