Really Tripping with pets

[skillet]

What I think would be interesting is controlled, safe experiments of giving small doses of psilocybe to chimps or bonobos or other human-like primates... and see if it improves or expands cognitive or linguistic function. Or anything, really.

I'd really rather this be done with humans - obviously it's difficult...

I'd support controlled experiments with animals and psychedelics, but only if there was an antidote available if they looked uncomfortable, such as a benzo or barbiturate. I'd be more interested in dogs than other species. I'm pretty sure primates like us would trip without a doubt... maybe good, maybe bad.

Can psychedelics change an animal's behavior long-term? It'd be interesting to collect dogs that are mis-behaving, like ones on "death-roe" at the pound, and see if a few trips along with positive human interaction would help them change. I think it could definitely help. Imagine turning mean dogs, doomed to die, into manageable, even friendly pets? Could save many animals, whose lives are miserable in cages. For it to work properly, I think the animal would have to be uncaged, and at least in a big room but preferably outside on a 50 foot leash, or a fenced area.

That's a pretty cool idea.

 

[~_Hiss_~]

I'd support controlled experiments with animals and psychedelics, but only if there was an antidote available if they looked uncomfortable, such as a benzo or barbiturate. I'd be more interested in dogs than other species. I'm pretty sure primates like us would trip without a doubt... maybe good, maybe bad.

Can psychedelics change an animal's behavior long-term? It'd be interesting to collect dogs that are mis-behaving, like ones on "death-roe" at the pound, and see if a few trips along with positive human interaction would help them change. I think it could definitely help. Imagine turning mean dogs, doomed to die, into manageable, even friendly pets? Could save many animals, whose lives are miserable in cages. For it to work properly, I think the animal would have to be uncaged, and at least in a big room but preferably outside on a 50 foot leash, or a fenced area.

Amazing idea. Best i've heard on this site in a long time. I feel very sad for all the animals that are locked up and few get homes besides the occasional no-kill shelter.

I have a feeling strong psychedelic trips could definitely modify mammilian behavior. It has worked in humans. I wonder if MDMA would also help, or work better with anger issues in dogs? Their brains are wired slightly different, although not as different as we think. Many veterinary drugs originated from human medicine, and many have the exact same purpose. They respond to opiate painkillers, they get anesthetized the same way, even antidepressants like prozac are used for dogs (key here: serotonin) and sadly, even killed the same way (pentobarbital, don't quote me but i think it is in the 3 drug cocktail given to humans in lethal injection). I've had to do this when I worked at the vet, well assist.

I remember the saddest moment at the vet was putting a happy dog (came in wagging his tail) down that a family couldn't take care of anymore cause of its behavior... at least thats what I found out after. While helping kill it I thought it had some terminal problem. Outrageous. At least it relaxed and went to sleep quickly.

THIS IS AN IDEA THAT NEEDS ACTION!

Maybe someone with some time and a big heart could adopt some death-roe animals and give them a research chemical such as 4-aco-dmt. It wouldn't be breaking the law, although you may need to get a permit for animal testing depending on your state. It could be an idea that would be funded by a grant if you can write scientifically and have a science degree.

 

[~_Hiss_~]

I'd really rather this be done with humans - obviously it's difficult...
.

It's being done on terminally ill cancer patients. I just recently saw an article on it on medscape.

 

[skillet]

Yeah I know, but it should be looked into for a lot more things/psychiatric problems. Maybe given a bit more time...

 

[Depressicaa]

I remember the saddest moment at the vet was putting a happy dog (came in wagging his tail) down that a family couldn't take care of anymore cause of its behavior... at least thats what I found out after. While helping kill it I thought it had some terminal problem. Outrageous. At least it relaxed and went to sleep quickly.

That is extremely depressing. Its like buying a Mercedes and then scrapping it since they can't afford the premium fuel prices, not sell or give it away, just scrapping it. You put it in an animal perspective but I don't really have anything sadder unless it was another animal or person.

Its extremely depressing that they didn't try to give it another home or something. I hope its happy, and if you believe in a heaven its right there too.

 

[~_Hiss_~]

Sorry to be a downer. I remember my talk with the vet (who was a real asshole. I remember once at night there was an emergency and he was performing a surgery while upset and drinking beer, and btw I was fired because someone who worked there and went to school with me told him I smoked pot)...

I asked what was wrong with the dog. "They didn't want it anymore and were willing to pay for it to die". Why didn't they take it to a pound or give it away, I said almost in tears. "I guess it was bad enough they wanted it to die! Or not live in a cage for a while then die".

I love animals, which is why I don't work at a vet. I hope psychedelics can someday improve this situation, although when I state it like that it sounds like a pipedream.

If anyone lives in southwest PA (where I used to live at this time) stay away from this asshole. G**** veterinary clinic.

 

[RhythmSpring]

I do think that giving MDMA to a dog would be a dangerous idea. Their hearts are already more sensitive and faster than ours, and I know that even chocolate can poison them/fuck with their hearts. I would not risk MDMA. I'd stick with mushrooms or LSD.

 

[klopi]

I don't know how much this matters but whenever i would come home from a night of tripping my two siamese cats would jump on my lap and start to rub their heads on my arms and hands like really rub all over me, fur would be everywhere.

I dont know if somehow you can get high from skin contact but their pupils would get really big.


When i wasn't tripping they could give two shits about me

so there you go.

 

[swilow]

You guys are rude and deranged. The OP is not a retard, although what he would do I would probably not do. It was an experience that they may have been better with or without. Is a veterinarian a fucked up retard for putting an animal under ketamine?

No, he's not a retard, just did something extremely unethical, cruel and pointless. I do hope he has learned from this- forcing an altered state of conciousness of an animal for no reason is cruel.

And, no vets are not retards for using ketamine to sedate animals; as I said, the OP is silly for doing a similar thing for NO REASON.

Its stuff like this that just makes me realise how ignorant humans can be.

Any experiemtn conducted without consent is cruelty.

 

[HighonLife]

quit anthropomorphizing your animals.

you thought you're dog or cat or whatever came out with a better appreciation of music???

and if u are gonna anthropomorphize em that much then think, if they appreciates music then maybe they'll appreciate respect and appreciate if there owner would look out for their best interests. have u ever been dosed without knowing or without your permission? i havent but i know damn well i wouldnt want to be



however, i came into this thread to tell my own story but was disturbed by the OP.

one time while tripping my sisters cat who never used to like me never used to come in my room always hid from me came into my room whilst i was tripping and i remember lying down pettin her n we just stared at eachother n we made a legit connection that night cuz she n i are still kool now n she used to like my sister the most (her cat) but ever since i am the one who gets all the cats attention, even to this day.

btw, cat was sober.

 

[madassmolly]

you basterd. firstly, thats a waste of sid. i'd have had those tabs. secondly, you dont give drugs to things that cant consent. kids or animals.

 

[Boombox2]

I don't see how those animals would have been any better or worse off if the OP hadn't shared the experience with bluelight so getting outraged and having a good wail about it is pretty pointless.

The only reason to pass moral judgment would be if he thought it was great or funny or clever or planned on doing it again.

As it goes, he is none of those things and has simply expanded our collective knowledge.

Some people need to get a grip.

 

[Boombox2]

And yeah - what a waste!

 

[DwayneHoover]

quit anthropomorphizing your animals.

you thought you're dog or cat or whatever came out with a better appreciation of music???

and if u are gonna anthropomorphize em that much then think, if they appreciates music then maybe they'll appreciate respect and appreciate if there owner would look out for their best interests. have u ever been dosed without knowing or without your permission? i havent but i know damn well i wouldnt want to be



however, i came into this thread to tell my own story but was disturbed by the OP.

one time while tripping my sisters cat who never used to like me never used to come in my room always hid from me came into my room whilst i was tripping and i remember lying down pettin her n we just stared at eachother n we made a legit connection that night cuz she n i are still kool now n she used to like my sister the most (her cat) but ever since i am the one who gets all the cats attention, even to this day.

btw, cat was sober.

Very cogent, thank you.

To suppose that animals (well, non-primates anyway) "trip" when we give them a psychedelic is a TOTALLY HUGE and COMPLETELY INVALID anthropomorphization.

Their brains are structured so differently on a physical basis, and operate in very different ways, with such a different set pf priorities from us whose brains/minds evolved to adapt to a very specialized life of apes, that you have NO IDEA what is going on from their subjective point of view when given psychedelics. Any detection of internal mental effects and probably most of the behavioural changes that the cruel curious narcissists who give animals acid claim to detect are almost certainly ENTIRELY IN THEIR OWN IMAGINATIONS. This is why meds before approval must undergo DOUBLE BLIND testing... the placebo effect works on BOTH parties... the one taking the drug AND the one giving... even highly trained sober observers like doctors and biomed researchers are documented to claim to be certain that they notice a whole variety of effects that are not really there when they know that a real active substance is being given to someone.

If you give your pet some acid, and fucking fantasize he is "enjoying it" or he is "tripping", man YOU are just seeing what you expect to see... not to say you're nuts or anything, its a natural, documented flaw in our abilities to observe things truly completely objectively... i.e., WE CAN"T!

 

[DwayneHoover]

I don't see how those animals would have been any better or worse off if the OP hadn't shared the experience with bluelight so getting outraged and having a good wail about it is pretty pointless.

The only reason to pass moral judgment would be if he thought it was great or funny or clever or planned on doing it again.

As it goes, he is none of those things and has simply expanded our collective knowledge.

Some people need to get a grip.

WRONG!!!

It's cruel and unethical to dose either unconsenting humans or unconsenting animals with potent mind-altering drugs.

Period. YOU are the one who needs to get a grip.

 

[amanitadine]

I'm assuming, hoping, this is a joke. And all of the vacant moronic excuses defending such actions are just some sort of temporary collective insanity, right? Are there really that many half-wits out there? Jeeeze :/
*
for all of you that neglected to think about the obvious....to REALLY simplify things, LSD exerts its most dominant effects psychologically (changes in rational thinking, etc) and physically. Now, say, you are a dog, and your loving, trusted master (idiot) gives you some LSD. You cant comprehend this, and surely cant comprehend these changes that your senses are picking up (visual distortions, strange smells, etc)....BUT you can pick up the adrenergic response, big time. Combine this with your faith in the goodness of your master being seriously shaken, and it equals UNPLEASANT. Dog cant rationalize this. "Oh I've taken a drug ..this will wear off in 6 hours. The walls aren't really melting." All of the normal liferafts we humans rely on are rendered moot. UGGH.

Soooo, I'm assuming this is a joke, right? I can't really be surrounded by so many morons, right? Please?

Cruel, Stupid, pointless, and DEPRESSING

And uh.....whoever got excited about using psychedelics to turn bad dogs good? Get a fucking clue. You really think it works like that?

UGghhh

 

[knock]

WRONG!!!

It's cruel and unethical to dose either unconsenting humans or unconsenting animals with potent mind-altering drugs.

Period. YOU are the one who needs to get a grip.

DH, Boombox2 said the reporting of the incident makes no difference. Not the incident itself, the reporting.

Now, that's not quite true because it just might encourage others to do it but that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[Raw Evil]

quit anthropomorphizing your animals.

...

and if u are gonna anthropomorphize em that much then think, if they appreciates music then maybe they'll appreciate respect and appreciate if there owner would look out for their best interests.

Respect isn't uniquely human. Have you noticed how animals will treat one person differently to another? That suggests to me that they are able to differentiate between people and have different levels of respect for each. Last I checked, humans were in the animal kingdom...

There's a difference between anthropomorphising and recognising the similarities that exist between species.

 

[alantis360]

^ Because they can't drive a car and text at the same time.

they cant drive and text at the same time, but they have wayyyy superior hearing and and smell power. I swear my dog can hear a bush rattle from a squirrel across the street.

 

[~_Hiss_~]

She was being sarcastic. Animals are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Considering they are given serotonin antidepressants I don't see why they wouldn't trip. Now whether they enjoy it or its frightening is a variable depending on many things like dose, setting and their bond with the person with them.

They evolved for the same amount of time we have. Just because they evolved for a different niche doesn't make them less sentient.