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"real" people

why x-1?

why not x where x is a number between 0 and 10?

alasdair
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Because 10 is perfect and nobody is perfect. So we are all X - 1 because nobody can be 10.

Contrived? Sure, but the math matches the conventional wisdom ;)

I agree that this is pretty much a meaningless discussion. But aren't they all? If the purpose of this thread is to think about value, then we've accomplished our goal.
 
in which case why not, x where x is a number between 0 and 9?

it's not clear to me why you introuced this value=x thing because it seems to be as muddled as your thinking on the idea of value generally.

let's try this. i can't see any value in you. think you are valueless. how do you respond?

alasdair
 
protovack said:
Because 10 is perfect and nobody is perfect.
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As yourself I don't believe anyone can be perfect (10), but similarly I don't think think anyone can be 100% evil (0) either.

Everyone viewed as completely "good" has done something bad in their life, and everyone viewed as completely "bad" has done something good in their life I think.

You argue that no person is perfect and I think the same applies in the other end of the spectrum, ie. no one can be completely evil (=valueless).
 
alasdair, I do understand why you reject my idea of "no value." Trust me, I don't really believe most of what I say.

But I just refuse to buy into the sort of thinking that says value is some sort of asymptote that is always positive and never zero, or that value is always subjective and thus not open to analysis.

That's even more muddled than my idea ;)
 
So how do you measure the value of a human being?

What do you go by. Whose rules. Obviously the bad guy thinks hes the good guy, and the other guy thinks he is the good guy and the other ones the bad guy, so given there are only these two people in existance, which one is the good guy and which one is the bady guy. Its the same thing, except multiply the number of people. We still cant tell whats value and whats valueless. Everyone has their own beliefs, so who is right?
 
protovack said:
How many of you would be friends with a guy who beat on his own son? As in, you know for sure that he does it...and that it is hurting his son in a major way.

Or take any example.

Would you go out on a date with somebody who was married and abused their spouse in front of their children?


I'm guessing nobody would. Except a few people here are going to say yes just so they can keep their argument consistent.
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You seem to be basing this imaginary value scale upon a persons one particular action, whereas there are many many actions that a person performs over a life time, directly and indirectly.

For example if a baby has been born to loving parents and died two days later was that baby valueless?

I think not because of all the time and effort that went into having the child and the moment of love that the parents felt for the child for the little time they had with it, the doctors bills are not valueless, etc etc. The child has had an impact on the world.

Now what if the child lived, and he grew up to lead a peace movement and chant Hari Krishna all day long, and then he had kids of his own, and then beat the living shit out of his own child. Does that negate all the good things that the guy has done and still will do?

I don't think so, you see the problem with labeling people with a total and complete tag based on one aspect of their lives is very draconian and is what Hitler did with the Jews among other people who have persecuted just based upon anothers single "flaw" like colour, religion, blah blah blah, you see?

All we are trying to say is that to denote a universal value score to a person will require a universal understanding of said person.

Cheers.
 
Now what if the child lived, and he grew up to lead a peace movement and chant Hari Krishna all day long, and then he had kids of his own, and then beat the living shit out of his own child. Does that negate all the good things that the guy has done and still will do?
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In such an example, of course his value wouldn't be negated.

But that is a pretty extreme example.
 
Ok even if he didn;t do anything earth-shattering in his own life, somewhere down the line his actions are going to affect something big. What if his kid does something worthwhile, or his grandkid? Every person has an effect on the future.
 
protovack said:
In such an example, of course his value wouldn't be negated.

But that is a pretty extreme example.
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I know and I purposely did it so that you can at least understand what the rest are saying. Even if he didn't do those things, maybe he just helped an old lady across the road one day and that was it, it gives value and worth to his life, and even if he didn't do that, to someone somewhere he might have had some positive impact without even knowing it.
 
the hooligans said:
what about those who have a bad affect on the future...
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Every action of his and every action that was ever influenced by him would have to be bad, and I think that would be rather impossible.
 
this has been an interesting thread. until some asshole brought math into it :D

alasdairm said:
in which case why not, x where x is a number between 0 and 9?

it's not clear to me why you introuced this value=x thing because it seems to be as muddled as your thinking on the idea of value generally.

let's try this. i can't see any value in you. think you are valueless. how do you respond?

alasdair
Click to expand...


I agree with the op and i agree with those who disagree with her. Yes i do have a theory that others serve purposes in life. but it isn't an arrogant thought, it isn't "all about me" it goes both ways. think of us humans as pieces in a game, and the game keeper maneuvering each of us at different times to fix or help another game piece.

I don't believe there is anyone who is without value. At all. Take protovacks example. Some piece of shit who beats on his kids, and one day kills one. That motivates another person to report suspected abuse for a parent who would have killed that child one day. Even though the piece of shit was admittedly worthless, he served a purpose. know what i mean??

but then again, this is just fun philosophising to make my life seem more special.
 
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