Opioids Ready for subs and would like some info

[obscure]

I think I'm finally ready to go off everything and do sub maintenance, MMT would be nice but I really am just done with heroin and pills running my life and emptying my wallet.

My question is; what would be a good dose to start out with on subs? My habit right now is about 80mg of oxy per day or about .5g tar smoked. I have a script for oxy that I use when I can't afford or score H. I am not prescribed enough oxy to maintain my habit and my tolerance is substantial. When I say 80mg/day, that's just so I don't go into WD, that(even as 1 dose) isn't enough to make me nod.

I just don't want to go into the sub doc and have him/her give me a script for a dose too low and then say fuck it and relapse. I want a dose that is going to make me feel good, but then taper down. And I'm really not looking forward to staying clean 3 days to let the bupe work. Any tips on that would be appreciated as well.

Edit: If there's anyone in Southern California that can recommend a good sub doc please PM me. If that's not against the BLUA, seems to be legit enough of a request. Mods let me know though.

 

[effie]

You are unlikely to be able to go in and tell your doctor what dose you want.. it's tricky to accurately convert buprenorphine to full agonists like oxycodone, but 1mg (sublingual) equals 30mg oxycodone roughly speaking. They'll have a regime they want you to follow though. Some people need considerably more where as others don't need as much.

You're probably not going to get high from it and really, I don't think that's the attitude to have - I don't mean to sound patronising at all but if you are serious about using it for maintenance and tapering off then getting high shouldn't be your goal. Being a partial agonsit buprenorphine doesn't have quite the same effects as full agonists.

You do need to be dopesick before you start the Suboxone, the time period varies but if you aren't starting to withdraw then you will have precipitated WDs..

 

[livetheopiatedream]

U only have to wait 24 hrs post last dose to dose ur sub. Still I'd do a little Tester dose to ensure no precipitated WDs ... But 36 hrs is plenty. 2mg subs should b plenty for u. Some people like more on the first days but for some it will never really fully cover the first day Especiallyand a bit of the second for me by the third ur habituating at ur new dose so it's all good

 

[Missykins]

...I just don't want to go into the sub doc and have him/her give me a script for a dose too low and then say fuck it and relapse. I want a dose that is going to make me feel good, but then taper down. And I'm really not looking forward to staying clean 3 days to let the bupe work. Any tips on that would be appreciated as well...

So what is your plan? To buy it off the street? Be honest with your doctor and be honest with yourself and you shouldn't relapse.

But keep in mind that the "Suboxone Fairy" is not going to suddenly appear and take your addiction away with three clicks of her heels. You have to do some work, too.

 

[Missykins]

U only have to wait 24 hrs post last dose to dose ur sub. Still I'd do a little Tester dose to ensure no precipitated WDs ... But 36 hrs is plenty. 2mg subs should b plenty for u. Some people like more on the first days but for some it will never really fully cover the first day Especiallyand a bit of the second for me by the third ur habituating at ur new dose so it's all good

This is not entirely correct. Suboxone induction should begin when one is feeling mild to moderate symptoms of withdrawal; the number of hours since last use isn't what determines when one begins Suboxone.

 

[ixy]

honestly I think you should just go to a doctor, they'll make sure you have more than enough that you don't relapse, that's the whole point. My doctor has been great and i'm so glad i'm going to him instead of going through all the trouble of trying to get it illegally, this is so much simpler. I've actually ended up with more than I need and he's gonna let me stay on it as long as I want (though after a year, i'm attempting to lower my dose, we'll see how it goes)
When you first get on it, what they do it is to keep increasing your dose every half hour or so until you get to a point where you're comfortable, that's how they determine what you need cuz it's a little different for every body. And if for some reason you found that wasn't enough, you could just explain to your dr that you need your dose increased and i'm sure they would do it, it's not like a higher dose is gonna get you high.
If for some reason you can't get prescribed enough (which won't happen as long as your dr isn't a total moron in which case you can just find a new dr), you can always take more on top of what your prescribed.
seriously, just find a dr, it will make your life a million times easier.

 

[J.Robot]

@ IXY, I'm pretty sure he's talking about doing it legitimately, since in the bottom of his post he was asking about sub doctors in SoCal.

...To the OP, remember, just like any other drug, your dosage will vary. But with suboxone, it's best to find a dose to stabilize on, and then start dropping your dose. Just because they might prescribe 16-24mgs a day, doesn't mean you need to take that much. When you begin to lower your dose, you should be able to maintain on a much lower dose then you were stabilized on. & once you're maintaining on a lower dose, you can begin to stockpile your extra subs, just in case something happens, and you get cut off. If you stockpile, you'll have extras for an emergency.

Just remember though, suboxone is also addictive. Don't think you can just do a detox, then jump off. You will have withdrawals, and trust me, they're hellish. You're not really going to feel "good" on them though, you'll just feel normal and not feel like shit. Just remember, when you go in to talk to your suboxone doctor, be completely honest with them. Be honest about your tolerance, what you're doing, and how often. They know WHY you're there, so it's not some big secret. I would personally wait till you're 24-36 hours into withdrawals before going to your appointment, so the drug actually works, and like others have said, so you don't go into precipitated withdrawals, because that shit SUCKS.

....& if you're looking for sub doctors in your area, try www.suboxone.com -- there you'll find a list of doctors in your area, and in the surrounding area.

Good luck, man. Keep your head up.

 

[obscure]

Thanks for all the replies guys. This really just became an idea I had within the last couple of days because my dealer flaked and I'm running low on my backup oxy. But it made me think about things and made me realize what I want to do with this addiction that I've gotten myself into.

I talked to a sub docs office in my city and got the low down on what I need to do; wait 18 hours before going in the first time and then once a month after that for eval/testing. It's a little pricey, but way cheaper than doing what I do now.

So guys, thanks again for the advise. Hopefully this all works out and someday I can treat opiates like other drugs and use them for fun, not just to function.

 

[obscure]

Just took my last dose before going to the doctor tomorrow, I have to be clean for only 18 hours before I start on the bupe. That seems kind of short, anybody have some experience there? I thought I needed to wait till WDs got pretty bad before getting on bupe to avoid precipitated WDs. I know I'll be feeling pretty bad by then, but the worst will be yet to come. It'd be great if I could avoid any amount of WDs, I've played that game enough times. So, how long have you guys waited? I'm planning on 24hrs even if it's available at ~18hrs.

May last dose was just what I had lying around, 20mg oxycodone, 40mg hydrocodone. Not much, but I'm not going to buy more H if I'm paying all this money to see the sub doc and fill a script.

 

[LeLouche]

There's a really poor understanding of PW.


Lets say you need a +5 opiate charge to not be sick. Anything below it is sick, anything above it is jammed. Lets say oxy carries a charge of +1 and bupe has +.5. You also only have 5 receptors.

Fill the 5 receptors with oxy and you'll have a +5 charge. Replace it all with bupe and you'll end up with a +2.5 charge. Not a 5, which means you'll still be sick, but it's not a 0 either.

PW's will never make you worse than you would be at the height of just regular withdrawals. Time has nothing to do with it, it's how you feel. Its why you could in theory take someone who never did opiates give them some heroin, then give them suboxone and not have them end up in withdrawal. In their case they only need a +0 charge to feel normal. Never get sick, always jammed. Therefor the +2.5 charge of bupe will be enough, even if it kicks everything else off.

The reason opiates kick each other off the receptors is due to the relative binding affinity of each molecule. Bupe has a very strong affinity and will kick any opiates (well most you can get) off the receptors.

It's also only a partial agonist, not a full agonist, so you're likely to feel sicker than if you took the same example above but with Oxy/Heroin not Oxy/Bupe and keep the numbers the same. Even though you have a +2.5 in both cases a +2.5 pure agonist is better than a +2.5 agonist/antagonist.

Hopefully this makes some sense to you.

 

[livetheopiatedream]

2mg subs is prolly enuf to kill almost all wd w that kinda low tolerance...well low 4me...
itll work better day3-4 than day1-2 when ur still adsjusting to the new baseline

 

[Titus]

If I was pulling down 10K/week I would be on dope maintenance. Since I'm not, I'm (supposed to be, according to me, and was until recently) on sub maintenance at4m/day It worked for me. I started with 8 and dropped to 4m it was great on the one hand as it helped me get awa from dope, but in pariticular when I switched to subutex it openedup the possibilit that I could over ride easily taht dose with doeeanthing I wanted, and once ai got a taste I WANTED!

I think I'm addicted to being a baby and wanting what I want when i want it lol

 

[livetheopiatedream]

I think I'm addicted to being a baby and wanting what I want when i want it lol

lol this sounds like me. us opiate addicts have such poor impulse control :S

 

[Znegative]

yeah^, I think some are better than others but I made the choice to switch to doing a 3 month outpatient methadone taper starting tomorow.. Subs have helped me a lot with my opiate addiction, but at the current time, I feel as if my control over how often and how much I take is actually making it easier for me to take "vacations". I've done MMT in the past so I know what its about, and that of course i can still get high on it, but what I like is that I can only dose once a day, and I'll have a set up taper plan, so messing around on top will just screw me.

Anyway, thats my personal situation, but I think suboxone/subutex is really the best first option. Buprenorphine is a great drug IMO. Even if your intentions aren't to stay entirely clean, it can help you build a life that isnt completely based upon copping your dope or pills. My best peice of advice would be to make sure you dont go on a rediculously high dosage, like 32mg. I've always been into the "less is more" idea with suboxone, but I do think that for some people, a dosage between 8-16mg can be more benificial. Make sure to be honest with your doctor and to adjust your dose according to what makes you comfortable both physically and psychologically.

 

[livetheopiatedream]

^yaaa bupe is awesome for cravings control i do SO much better with it than without it omg it is a lifesaver. it can bite u in the ass tho if u dont taper down to like nothing to get off it...such a long halflife thus the wd is looonnngg.but if u cant hack it and keep clean CT then bupe is excellent. helps with the earth shattering emotional problems my WDs insist on causing

 

[crazydiamond79]

Most docs will have you start at at least 8 daily, but try 4, mgs, respectively. With suboxone,less is more, and when it comes time to get off of it, you will be happy ya started low. Just PLEASE do your reach and find a doctor that cares, suboxone has turned into the biggest cash cow, it sickens me.

 

[obscure]

@LeLouche, thanks for that it gave me a much better understanding.

Update: Went to the Doc, he gave me an 8mg tab in the office, told me to take 2mg at a time until I felt normal. I wound up taking the whole 8mg over the course of an hour and I feel just dandy. The beginnings of WDs I was going through are gone.

The doctor was great and things couldn't have gone better. He Rx'd me 60 8mg pills and told me to taper over the first month and find a dosage I was comfortable on then either jump off or stay on as long as I want. I'll probably stay on a few months just to be sure I don't relapse.

Thanks everyone for the info and support, this is a nice feeling.

 

[Swain]

1-2mg bupe at most.

If you feel like the first few days its not really 'working' its just because you need to adjust. This is where people make the mistake of thinking they need realyl high doses and stay on them. If you dont ge tmuch releif the 1st day, taking more and more is not going to help. Time is the only cure..

After the 1st few days you can reduce your dose drastically.. play with it over the next few days and determine what dose you really need to hold you.

If you only need 80mg oxy a day, taking 8mg of bupe daily is going to boost your tolerance into oblivion

It truely is pointless.. you are increasing your tolerance/dependency. There are more sideeffects at higher dosages. If 2mg had you fine, then you should stick wtih that daily. you will NOT regret it.