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RC users: Why do you do it?

Im a thinking kinda person. A hermit/hippy but I dont considder myself such.

I just like the altered thinking state. Especially the trypts. They are definate mind fucks.
 
cognosis said:
***The New Evolution Bitches***<3 8o %)

~ Maybe I'm a little intense, but I mean it's proven that changes in diet cause changes in the organism. I think RC's, along with emerging forms of expression, movement, and information processing that's happening in this grand ole 21st century are going to play a vital role in cognitive evolution. If not as a society as an individual. New places and spaces and so many interesting faces along the way.

Ahh, the torch of youth.

The 60s hippies thought the whole world would tune in, turn on, and drop out. It never happened. Instead they went on to become the most materialistic, self-serving, neo-conservative generation in the history of the world.

The psychedelic renaissance in the US in the early 80s was major compared to anything I can see going on today, and 25 years later, I see no real impact on society.

Check back with us in a couple of decades and let us know how the evolution/revolution is going. :\
 
retired_chemist said:
Ahh, the torch of youth.

The 60s hippies thought the whole world would tune in, turn on, and drop out. It never happened. Instead they went on to become the most materialistic, self-serving, neo-conservative generation in the history of the world.

The psychedelic renaissance in the US in the early 80s was major compared to anything I can see going on today, and 25 years later, I see no real impact on society.

Check back with us in a couple of decades and let us know how the evolution/revolution is going. :\

I'm 20, so I guess I'm not old and I'm not young. :\

++ I'm not talking about dropping out, the whole problem with counter-culture is it's just another dialectic reinforcing binary power structures. The *good guys/bad guys* story over and over again. This isn't a story of defeating the enemy, but of making dreams happen and realizing our potentials, of finding new sensory experiences where few have been before.

### The year is 2007, it is a new milieuX. Socially, environmentally, and psycho-spirito-cognitively, the decisions we make have real time consequences. Whether you're talking about exploring new psychoactives(which most certainly "change the way you think"), or talking about global warming.

A big difference I see between the '60s psychedelic experimentation and the recent resurgence of interest in RCs and the classical psychedelic deals explicitly with the time periods you're talking about. in the '60s everyone was talking about how the end of the was near: Fin de siècle attidue all over the place, wars, etc. Now, I think less people are getting high on psychedelics to escape and more to have fun. Very much in recognition that it's a new millennium. We're just starting to stand on our feet to look around and seek out experiences that are uniquely our own; while at the same time, we're confronted with the net force of the past and have to actually do shit about it. in order to survive we have to become more complex. I see psychedelics/RCs as a part of that process in a very real sense because they open you up to variations of sensory modalities and open up a line of questioning: how does the world seems and to what extent does what appears to be subject to being altered?

~I'm not trying to outline some ideological time line, but talk about my experiences with exploring RCs. Psychedelics catalyze personality development. Something about being Mind-manifesting and all. This is the reason why if you're un_mentally stable or prone to scizophrenia dropping acid probs isn't the best idea for you, while a relatively stable person can eat tons of LSD and not go crazy. Look at media today, have you seen those ipod nano commercials? If you don't see the impact psychedelics are having, you aren't looking hard enough. Drugs are definitely influencing the arts/media/digital technology/the way we *perceive-interact with* the world. While it might not immediately obvious the effects psychedelics are having on cultures on large scales, it is happening.
 
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cognosis said:
I'm 20, so I guess I'm not old and I'm not young.
=D 20 is very very young. Don't worry - it will pass.

Not to put you down: there's nothing wrong with youth. Youth is the fo'shizzle, in a lot of ways. But everything in your above post could have been written 20, 30, 40 years ago. There's evidence for drugs changing mass culture since 'round 1962 -- and not always just to sell you a music player, either. :)

Every extraordinary 20 year old thinks some variation on "change your mind, change the world", but experience will show you it doesn't quite work that way...
 
^I'm 24: am I just very young? :) Of course a drug/drugs can't change the world- but they can change an individual, which is getting close.

but experience will show you it doesn't quite work that way

Fuck experience. History doesn't have to repeat itself. But, yeah how does "it" work? Its humurous that you seem kind of jaded and anti-idealism; maybe you guys stuffed it up for yoursleves, so move the fuck outta the way and let us have a crack!!!!! :)
 
willow11 said:
^I'm 24: am I just very young? :)
Yeps.

willow11 said:
Of course a drug/drugs can't change the world- but they can change an individual, which is getting close.
Not quite close enough, I don't think. Call me cranky for saying so, but I think drugs have harmed as much as helped "the movement" over the years.

willow11 said:
Fuck experience.
Uh... OK.
willow11 said:
History doesn't have to repeat itself.
No, but it sure seems to have that tendency, don't it?
willow11 said:
Its humurous that you seem kind of jaded and anti-idealism; maybe you guys stuffed it up for yoursleves, so move the fuck outta the way and let us have a crack!!!!! :)
Have at 'er, Tiger. Last I looked I wasn't in anyone's way. :) I love idealism - don't let me burst your bubble. But I also remember when I ran into the invisible walls (Devo's Gates of Steel) and got tuckered out bashing my head against them. Seems like a waste for generation after generation to dash their promising bodies on the rocks of the System because they wanted to burn the maps every single time...

I actually should have maintained my habitual silence here... I really don't like to poop on anyone's party. (Nor derail threads!)
 
Along the same lines...

Not jaded. By all means feel free to pursue the social awakening. It is the task of youth to feel they will change the world.

I'm more amused than jaded because I have seen it and done it myself all before. The outcome has been immortalized in song. In the words of Donald Fagen:

"All those day-glo freaks who used to paint their face? They've joined the human race. Some things will never change".

The song is about MDA. MDMA has not added anything more to the equation. Actually I would argue that if anything, it's added less.

From my perspective, having seen the experiment before me, having lived it myself, and having seen it a couple more times since, I'd be crazy to really expect a different outcome.

Sorry I don't see "your" generation as any more likely to make it happen than the ones that preceded you. In the words of another musician, Elvis Costello aptly made the following observation about "kids today":

"There is something kind of absurd about people who live in such a comfortable, cushioned, spoiled society tattooing themselves and piercing themselves to make them appear tribal. We're trying to act like we're some sort of tribe that's been discovered in the mall."

LOL. Don't let me discourage you. Don't try to stop me from getting a good laugh from the whole notion either. :-)
 
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retired_chemist said:
Sorry I don't see "your" generation as any more likely to make it happen than the ones that preceded you. In the words of another musician, Elvis Costello aptly made the following observation about "kids today":

"There is something kind of absurd about people who live in such a comfortable, cushioned, spoiled society tattooing themselves and piercing themselves to make them appear tribal. We're trying to act like we're some sort of tribe that's been discovered in the mall."

LOL. Don't let me discourage you. Don't try to stop me from getting a good laugh from the whole notion either. :-)

The quote you're cited does hold some validity in the context of talking about cultural appropriation, but also not giving youth cultures that are emerging in America enough credit.IE krump.

I'm a little confused because I don't think I was talking about an awake society or anything. In evolutionary time, it hasn't even been a tenth of a millisecond since the '60s and you're absolutely crazy if you think ingesting new psychoactive compounds isn't affecting the processing of the body/mind. When homo Habilis came on the scene and started incorporating meat into its diet, the organism underwent massive brain growth and the ability to think conceptually occurred.
 
MKUltra said:
=D 20 is very very young. Don't worry - it will pass.

Not to put you down: there's nothing wrong with youth. Youth is the fo'shizzle, in a lot of ways. But everything in your above post could have been written 20, 30, 40 years ago. There's evidence for drugs changing mass culture since 'round 1962 -- and not always just to sell you a music player, either. :)

Every extraordinary 20 year old thinks some variation on "change your mind, change the world", but experience will show you it doesn't quite work that way...


In the eyes of the law in the US, I can't drink because I'm not old enough and I can be convicted for a life sentence and/or put to death because I'm not a teenager anymore. Changes in diet DO cause a change in the organism. It does work that way.

#I'm not talking about change/revolution but altering the trajectory of future history through conscious experimentation (and not just in the context of drugs).

btw. "fo'shizzle" means "for sure" a la Snoop DoGG. Are you sure you used that phrase correctly?
 
I am anti-idealism big time, fuck idealism :) I think idealism is dangerous, it is the root cause of much intolerance. Why get lost in wishful thinking about the way thngs shoudl be when it is much more useful to try and look at things and to determine how they actually are and then work with that? farless frustrating, far less anger/intolerance inducing, and way more constructive. Realism all the way forme. Just my 2 eurocents on this. But I definitely wouldn't fuck experience.
 
You are piecing together a framework of concepts that form a dogma that suits what you want to believe, but it is not a reflection of reality at large.

First of all, as far as "evolving" goes there is no evidence to suggest that consumption of psychedelics causes any kind of genetic change that can be passed down the line. You are mixing together that concepts of altering body/mind. Altering your mind is not altering the genetics you have available to pass doiwn to your children.

Sorry, the comparison of ingesting psychedelics opening some kind of new chapter in human evolution just does not wash. The fact that our brain mass increased by a few hundred grams because we started eating meat does not validate the notion that consuming psychedelics is going to similarly alter the course of human evolution.

Increased awareness that may result from psychedelic use can only impact others by transferring that awareness, and whether you are willing to identify it as such or not, that is in fact a social change. It requires indirect group rather than direct genetic interaction to be propagated.

Again not rain on your parade, but these ideas are not new, and so far they still remain unvalidated.

It really is about trajectory, and to alter the human trajectory at this stage in our development is tantamount to altering the human social trajectory. And this is why I see nothing new on the horizon. The truth of the matter is that while from your perspective the psychedelic lifestyle and mentality may be prevalent, that is because you immerse yourself in that lifestyle and associate with other people who do the same. On a global scale, the numbers are still small. "Everyone" is not doing it. It fails again for the same reason it has failed before. The psychedelic movement just does not have enough force and momentum to really even nudge, much less knock the human trajectory into a different orbit.
 
I think that, like all things, "realism" and idealism should meet in the middle.

I'm 24. I'm very young, and I know it. It took me a number of years to realize I didn't know everything.

However, I do see a significant shift in the human experience coming up. It's not just psychedelics. In fact, although they may be an important part, it's not even mostly psychedelics. It's the massive exponential explosion of technology and particularly communication technology. It's terrifying, because on one hand, I can see the children (the generation below me particularly) becoming frighteningly disturbed and apathetic with the world. But on the other hand, I'm seeing more and more people breaking out their molds. And the fact is that the world is fast approaching a time where we will be unsustainable, and we'll have to do something drastically different.

The fact is that as organic life forms, we are constantly undergoing evolution, and it seems to me that this evolutionary progress is accelerating ever faster, and we've already gotten to a point where it's out of control. In my mind, it's an exciting and frightening time in human history. The whole world is going crazy, western society is terminally ill, but the mind is evolving. I feel that as a young person it is my (and all of our) responsibility to do everything we can to guide that change in the best direction possible.

So yes, I do understand that every generation probably feels that they're going to change the world. But guess what? Every generation does. it sometimes just takes decades to look back and see that it was changed. So the '60s movement didn't turn out as expected. But it sure as hell changed the face of the world, for better or for worse. Everything happens for a reason, I think. Perhaps we needed the backlash of the past few decades to really come to realize what is necessary for the future. Perhaps we need to be pushed to the brink before we can find the strength to push back in the other direction, and continue this neverending cycle of social and genetic change.

So if we don't believe we can and are changing the world, we might as well give up. But we can't do that, because who else will do it if we don't?
 
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for changing the world. Not be insulting, but all youth expresses a breaking of the moulds. The Achilles heel of the youth of today is they practice consumerism on a scale that would have been unimaginable when I was a youngster. It is trend that has been developing for decades now, it is also more ingrained than it has ever been in the past. It is a characteristic which is in direct conflict with changing directions in the way they need to go.

I'm not saying it can't be done, or that people should not encourage change. I am mostly saying the reality of dynamics of change are just not what some people seem to believe them to be.

China will have a massive impact on the world order in the coming decades. Psychedelic phenylalkylamines made in China? Not so much.
 
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20 and 24 is definitely very young. When I was that age, I saw the world VERY differently than I do now. I think I was very naive then, very idealistic, and just plain inexperienced in real-world situations. I'm not saying everyone at that age is young in experience, hell some people have two children by the age of 19...I'm sure they were much 'older' at 19 than I was when I was 19.

But barring life experiences like those, 20-24 IS young and if you don't think your outlook on life will change when you hit 30, then you are operating from an already closed mind....after all you are only as young as the last time you changed your mind. ;)

Anyway, I think what changes people more than anything is real life experience. Once you have a family, and responsibilities, and you see 30% of your paycheck go to taxes (or more for many of you) then your outlook on things changes very quickly, and suddenly the idea of psychedelics changing the world becomes a real pipe dream. At some point you have to grow up.

That certainly doesn't mean I denounce the psychedelic experience...far from it. On an individual bases, their value is apparent. But this idea that psychedelics are going to be a catylist to any major societal evolution is false.. It is easy to take a trip, feel you have become enlightened, and that you can change the world...because you perceive that you have been changed...therefore why not everyone. In real life it doesn't work that way.
 
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i think we are living in a very exciting and scary time. the world is slowly but steadily being environmentally aware of our negative impact and degradation on the earth and the shift to sustainability needs to/will start within the next 10 years (if it doesnt we will be fucked once peak oil hits and global warmign accelerates) This shift to energy efficiency and living sustainably off the earth by mimicing nature's processes is HUGELY IMPORTANT and will save the earth slowly. this shift isnt going to appear suddenley, but it has been evolving slowly and will continue to grow.. the psychadelic experience, at least for me, allows me to tap into the gaian mind and understand that nature is not only out there in the woods or that mountain, but actually we are all nature and we are part of nature. When the world understands that we are first and formost members of the human community and the world community of life, that is when evolutionary thought will take a shift. evolution takes millions of years but there is no doubt in my mind that psychedelic drugs and their sustained use will lead to some evolutionary changes in thought processes. I think human thought has already started to evolve. There is a lot more hope for change than you think, at least in terms of the environment. all we can do is BE THE CHANGE WE WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD, and it is not up to you what the outcome will be.
 
20-24 IS young and if you don't think your outlook on life will change when you hit 30, then you are operating from an already closed mind....

I don't know, a lot of what I felt passionate about in my early-mid 20 I still feel passionate about now although possibly with a more practical view as to how to achieve what I'm after (and I'm in my mid 40's now!)

Then again, I might just be seen as being immature! =D
 
I feel the same way (at 31). I was very interested in sex, drugs, music, fish-keeping, birds, sex, drugs, music in my 20s, and I am just as passionate about it now...and also passionate about history and politics.

But as you say, I have a more practical outlook on what is what, and they 'way things are' and I definitely look at the world MUCH differently now than when I was in my 20s.


fastandbulbous said:
I don't know, a lot of what I felt passionate about in my early-mid 20 I still feel passionate about now although possibly with a more practical view as to how to achieve what I'm after (and I'm in my mid 40's now!)

Then again, I might just be seen as being immature! =D
 
I absolutely agree that you have to be the change you want to see. I can tell you from life experience, you cannot change anyone but yourself, and most people cannot do that.

I don't think I have changed that much with age. I still think much the same way I did when I was younger. I still do most of the same stuff I enjoyed doing then.

As far as hope, well I never abandon hope. As far as optimism for the future, I wish I could share that. One thing that has come with age - I'm brutally realistic now.

And unfortunately, especially where the environment is concerned, what I see is not real change but rather artificial change. People only seem willing to go green to the extent that it does not inconvenience them. People don't seem to be willing to give up all their shit - the real problem. Just the opposite. We are ever increasing both the diversity and the amount of material goods that people think they "need". Invention is the Mother of Necessity. I really don't need a phone that takes pictures, a widescreen home theater system, all this other stuff that people can't seem to live without.

Instead of learning to do more with less, we have evolved this kind of bullshit feel-good local pseudo-eco-consciousness. "Think globally, act locally". Right. It's more like "Think locally, fuck globally". The West has adopted nothing more than a policy of "NIMBY" - Not In My Back Yard. It's OK to continue unchecked consumption at an appalling pace. As long as my neighborhood is nice and clean who gives a fuck about some shithole Third World country.

Most people don't seem willing to act locally by just plain giving up even a little. I ride the metro as much as I can. But I don't see a bunch of environmentally conscious kids doing the same - they are all driving around in their cars. All I see are business types who park their gas guzzling SUVs in the station lots so they don't have to pay parking in the city, and low income types who have no alternative to mass transit.

The only thing that has really changed is we just moved the factory.

Go to China and see the environmental devastation being wrought as a result.
 
retired_chemist said:
I absolutely agree that you have to be the change you want to see. I can tell you from life experience, you cannot change anyone but yourself, and most people cannot do that.

I don't think I have changed that much with age. I still think much the same way I did when I was younger. I still do most of the same stuff I enjoyed doing then.

As far as hope, well I never abandon hope. As far as optimism for the future, I wish I could share that. One thing that has come with age - I'm brutally realistic now.

And unfortunately, especially where the environment is concerned, what I see is not real change but rather artificial change. People only seem willing to go green to the extent that it does not inconvenience them. People don't seem to be willing to give up all their shit - the real problem. Just the opposite. We are ever increasing both the diversity and the amount of material goods that people think they "need". Invention is the Mother of Necessity. I really don't need a phone that takes pictures, a widescreen home theater system, all this other stuff that people can't seem to live without.

Instead of learning to do more with less, we have evolved this kind of bullshit feel-good local pseudo-eco-consciousness. "Think globally, act locally". Right. It's more like "Think locally, fuck globally". The West has adopted nothing more than a policy of "NIMBY" - Not In My Back Yard. It's OK to continue unchecked consumption at an appalling pace. As long as my neighborhood is nice and clean who gives a fuck about some shithole Third World country.

Most people don't seem willing to act locally by just plain giving up even a little. I ride the metro as much as I can. But I don't see a bunch of environmentally conscious kids doing the same - they are all driving around in their cars. All I see are business types who park their gas guzzling SUVs in the station lots so they don't have to pay parking in the city, and low income types who have no alternative to mass transit.

The only thing that has really changed is we just moved the factory.

Go to China and see the environmental devastation being wrought as a result.

I agree with you on that level. A lot of corporations are capitalizing on the "environmental awakening" and marketing green items such as organic foods, like the mega store Whole Foods. Do people know that these organic fruits are actually being produced thousands of miles away in plantations in latin america and asia, where huge quantities of fossil fuels are being used to transport them to our houses? It is much better to eat locally than organically, but local farmers tend to be organic. It is important for people to be the change they want to see and yeah a lot of the environmental awakening is artificial and yes most people dont realize the havoc our policies and lifestyles reek on developing nations. It is incredibley fucked up but the world has been catching on to sustainable forms of energy and that is a good beginning. All we can do is be the change we want to see and hopefully people will catch on. Those of us who know how amazingly beautiful and special the earth and all of its creatures are understand, which I have learned through travel and psychadelic experiences. I know that there are plenty of people and communities out there trying to make a difference and who are trying to live sustainably. we can all start on the individual level and us "enlightened" psychonauts and users need to spread the knowledge and live a good, sustainable life. I appreciate your wisdom retired chemist and I completley understand where you are coming from. My dad came of age in the 1960s and has become much more realistic as time went on an maybe I will to but after experiencing the beauty of the earth and knowing how important this all is, I know it is my duty to preserve it for future generations.
 
My original intent before reading this entire thread was to make a post along the lines of what has been said by the other "young people".
The problem with this conversation is that the "older crowd" is forgetting that we're not just talking about psychedelics when we talk about some kind of future revolution.

You assume that we're doing/saying the same things that went down in the 60's... but you forget, most people who were a part of that time period, or who consumed LSD in that time frame was probably doing it for a radical, and generally uninformed reason. Seems to me they were bored stiff with the way things were, and they were looking for ANY other way to express/experience reality. So LSD and magical mushrooms seemed like a logical conclusion.

What we often forget, is that a very small number of individuals were actually involved in the process of discovering and presenting these things to the public. That means that these ideas could probably all be linked back to certain figureheads acting out their will on large groups of people (I.E.:Leary).

The most significant difference (in my eyes) is the very fact that us, the type of people inclined to explore psychedelic states, can now have this very conversation.

In fact, many people who obtain/promote these new psychedelics can't even have a conversation with the people who they are receiving them from because they don't speak the same language. Yet still, one could assume they maybe just have similar intentions as us... otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they are.

Furthermore, the core group of people (such as BL'ers) might not ever even meet in person, and yet because of the internet these substances/concepts can be openly explored. We can now take ideas at face value, and if we don't like what someone is saying, we don't have to believe it.

I agree with those who say a revolution is happening right now... but then I would go on to say that the revolution never stopped. I believe it merely goes dormant, until it has a proper time to manifest itself.

Hell, if EVERYONE from the 60's ended up jaded and full of shit, then where is all the psychedelica coming from???
How the hell did I get into all this, and why do I think what Timothy Leary, Aldous Huxley, and Terrence McKenna say is so very applicable to my reality?

Well considering I am only 23 I must just be idealistic, but I hope everyday of my life that I stay this idealistic, and maybe one day I'll be an insane rambling old kook like Mckenna, and I will still not give a damn what anyone says.
 
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