RCs RC/OPIOD - ODSMT/ change in effects ? Any thoughts on 4FMPH ?

[MIRyuhurd]

ODSMT daily dose early in morning for 3+ months. Prior used Oxy near daily for ~4 months.
Average dose ODSMT has been 80mg-130mg, once day only no redose

Before: mild stimulation for few hours, was perfect for work. Would have a light/med crash after some hours. Could usually be in a perfect, albeit very numbed headspace. Would make very talkative, active, usual feel good.

Now: light stimulation for hour, 1.5 hour, then MEGA crash. Usually have to sleep when this hits and in this sleep, one is very shakey / heart racing with the common opiod dreamstate. Very weird and uncomfortable.

Same product batch. Scaled back dose already, and still is the same. Wondering if this is just prolonged use catching up with diminished effects ? Any thoughts on this sudden change in effects ?

Thinking of trying 4FMPH to help be off ODSMT, but also to continue work for the next month. Also hoping this new chemical would assist with bowel issues that come with opiod use.

 

[negrogesic]

Sounds like you're tolerant to the opioid effects which is making you more sensitive to the adrenergic side-effects stemming from its action as a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. I've always found O-DSMT to be pretty edgy because of this and have never really be able to nod off on it (except for when I tried it intravenously in high doses years ago).

 

[MIRyuhurd]

Sounds like you're tolerant to the opioid effects which is making you more sensitive to the adrenergic side-effects stemming from its action as a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. I've always found O-DSMT to be pretty edgy because of this and have never really be able to nod off on it (except for when I tried it intravenously in high doses years ago).

Okay, thanks for the reply/info.

Do you have any idea what would happen if one used another substance, such as 4FMPH, which primarily acts as a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor ?
Would this likely result in a negative reaction, if one is sensitive to the ODSMT effects on norepinephrine?

 

[Voxide]

Yep, negro is spot on. It’s exactly why this drug and all those other atypical synthetics (tapentadol, Tramadol) eventually become useless for long term heavy use. The sides will act as a ceiling essentially.

OP, proceed with caution if you’re going to be trying 4fmph. It will not ease the digestion problems for opi wd but likely make them worse

Edit: come to think of it, what’s your logic in thinking you’d get relief with a stimulant there? Have you ever taken a large dose of one? You didn’t notably get the runs immediately during onset?

 

[Fertile]

The tapentadol scaffold is ALMOST very clever. It's just that it's a partial agonist.

It's just the open ring analogue of picenadol.

Interesting that picenadol hasn't turned up as an RC. The 2 isomers would have to be resolved, and I don't KNOW it that has ever been done.

 

[Voxide]

The tapentadol scaffold is ALMOST very clever. It's just that it's a partial agonist.

It's just the open ring analogue of picenadol.

Interesting that picenadol hasn't turned up as an RC. The 2 isomers would have to be resolved, and I don't KNOW it that has ever been done.

Wow. Learn something new everyday. Tap happens to be a compound that I have a lot of experience with, for better or for worse. The WD’s off a brief 2 week bender are surprisingly bad, but it’s likely the NRI aspect adding to it there.

 

[Fertile]

Well Voxide - I'm sure you looked at both tapentadol &picenadil on Wiki (the drug sections of Wiki are good - I wrote 617 of them - sincemodified, but look at originator and see DV Wynn - an anagram of my real name). I give you tahexadol, a FULL agonist. With tapentadol so you can compare.

1

Image 1 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

You see, a methyl (1 carbon) benzylic (on the carbon next to the ring) side chai will produce antagonist effects, an ethyl a partial agonist and an n-propyl full agonist properties.

You can trace the picenadol over tahexadol and in minimum energy conformation, it will place the aromatic, benzylic side-chain and the amine in the same relative positions in 3D space.

It won't be GREAT but it's certain to be:

1)Active at a lower dose than tapentadol
2)More euphoric

But why we do not see dimethylaminopivalophenone. It's as potent as AP-238 and you can make it for about $400/Kg! I mean, it's only pethidine potency, but MOST people would be able to switch to it although they might need to redose every 2-3 hours if they have a big habit. Just seems the obvious one to make... but the Chinese are not good at blue sky thinking. Damned hard workers (if a bit corrupt) but they find something that makes a profit like fentanyl analogues and keep modding them until I'm not sure they are safe.

 

[MIRyuhurd]

Yep, negro is spot on. It’s exactly why this drug and all those other atypical synthetics (tapentadol, Tramadol) eventually become useless for long term heavy use. The sides will act as a ceiling essentially.

OP, proceed with caution if you’re going to be trying 4fmph. It will not ease the digestion problems for opi wd but likely make them worse

Edit: come to think of it, what’s your logic in thinking you’d get relief with a stimulant there? Have you ever taken a large dose of one? You didn’t notably get the runs immediately during onset?

Sorry, unclear in reasoning.
WDs are seperate, the 4FMHP isn't to ease those in anyway. ODSMT WDs are not even half as bad (for me) compared to Oxy. Will make it thru with some V8 & Xanax!

I've read/been told a stimulant chemical will help move bowels, clear one out, like caffeine or coke. This is more of it's purpose, to help stimulate movement and assist in clearing one out in a more sped up way. Yes, I've tried every single natural and type of laxative in the world. And senna. Bowel issues have been long prevalent before opiod use & I imagine more backed up since, so I wanted to try something else to get them back functioning better, ya know?
Also, depending how it feels / I react to it, could be helpful for energy last few weeks of work, at least, another part of reasoning.

I've never taken a large dose of stimulants, probably. Once I accidentally had 30mg of Adderall and a latte, but otherwise haven't messed with stimulants much. Can't recall if it gave me the runs but, that is what I want to happen really. Did keep me awake for 3 days. Hated that.

Would start in very small amounts of the 4FHMP, since don't use stims much / with related norepinephrine inhibitor effect.
Only would want to use for a couple of weeks at most, if it even comes to that. Only have a few weeks anyway before moving far away lol

If any of this clears it up, or is really dumb for something I'm missing, more than open to hearing it. Thanks for all the replies

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

well if you ask, I could mention that I am not sure stims precisely improve peristalsis but relax the bowel. Possibly beneficial anyway.
I sometimes feel like they give proper runs first (caffeine as well as amphetamine and particularly combined), sure, but can cause constipation in the tail end of day, probably for assumed decreased peristalsis and pelvic floor tightness.

 

[Xorkoth]

You were awake for 3 days from 30mg of adderall? Wow... you should stay away from stimulants, IMO. 30mg of adderall is like an intro dose for me. And I am not even a stim addict or anything. First time I ever took it, I took 40mg, had a great time but 8 hours later and I was asleep.

 

[plumbus-nine]

You were awake for 3 days from 30mg of adderall? Wow... you should stay away from stimulants, IMO. 30mg of adderall is like an intro dose for me. And I am not even a stim addict or anything. First time I ever took it, I took 40mg, had a great time but 8 hours later and I was asleep.

30mg are definitely a party dose for me if taken without tolerance. This isn't lisdexamphetamine, I even felt the very first dose of 2.5mg d-amphetamine when I was first prescribed it. Can imagine to sparingly do 30mg to stay up one or two nights but three after a single dose of 30mg are exceptional, agreed.