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Rational Recovery - The New Cure for Substance Addiction

i against i

i against i

Bluelighter
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so i got this book to learn some things about addiction. this book is opposed to 12-step recovery movements and their belief that addiction is a disease, that you have no control, that you must rely on a Higher Power to stop your addiction, that you must make attend for the rest of your life and the rest of it. bear in mind that i am based in the UK and 12-step treatment isn't as widespread as in the USA.

i found this book very good, as it confirmed some things that i had thought about addiction and drug use already. it puts all the responsibility for addiction - and recovery - on the user, no enabling or codependent BS. the author, jack trimpey, uses what he calls the structural model of addiction, which is the idea that addiction is created in the midbrain, by what he calls your "beast" which mistakenly values your DOC as essential as food or oxygen. to quit, you make a "big plan" which is basically "i will never use again" then apply the "addictive voice recognition technique" - AVRT - which is recognising the voice of your beast, the addictive voice (any thought or feeling that supports using), and separating it for yourself (e.g. if you think "i really want some coke" you rephrase it "it really wants some coke")

the author (a former alcoholic) asserts that the only reason addicted people use drugs is for pleasure. i think this is true. i would try to explain it but it is covered at some length in the book and i don't think i would make a good job of it, but i think that when all the BS justifications are stripped away that is what it boils down to.

i really recommend the book - Rational Recovery - The New Cure for Substance Addiction - there is a new version out called The Art of AVRT but i'm not sure if it's available in the UK. he also has a version specifically aimed at those who have been through 12-step type programs and found them unhelpful, called The Small Book. the new book applies the concept to sex and cigarettes and has updated info about families etc whereas the old one was just alcohol, drugs and gambling. i'm applying the concepts to quit smoking right now, and will do for heroin if i decide to quit.

the website for Rational Recovery is www.rational.org and here is AVRT in a nutshell

has anyone else read the book(s) or familiar with the concept of AVRT? what do you think?
 
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I read it. I like that there is alternative to NA but i think that for me the program will be more successful. i need help, i need help from those people who know where I'm at and want only to help me. My beast is a motherfucker it takes teams of men to keep me under control.
But honestly the book did keep me clean for a short period of time i dont doubt that it could work.
I like that there is a down to earth, direct method that doesnt involve religion or spiritually which na aa does
 
i don't have the motivation. besides being addicted, there are no tangible negative consequences at the moment besides financial, but i am fully aware this can change rapidly. i'm reading a few books regarding addiction to see which i feel will be best, and trying out the technique on cigarettes.
 
The best books on heroin addiction and knowing when to quit include, Dad, Get Me Out of This, Sharing Works Means True Love and a Quick Death, and, finally, I Didn't Mean to Turn Blue.
 
Best book on addiction that I have ever read is In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate. It isn't an instruction manual on how to quit though, it's just an excellent book about how addiction works and what causes addiction. I read Rational Recovery before and I agree it is better than Alcoholics/Narcotics Anonymous but I did not agree with everything it said and I think it really oversimplifies things. It also didn't really help me to quit, although I do think that AVRT is helpful in itself.
 
I started reading up on Rational Recovery and AVRT recently and found it a lot more suitable for me than AA. I've always felt that it's inaccurate for me to place the blame of my drug and alcohol use on a "disease" concept and on triggers and enablers. Personally I feel that I'm totally responsible for my use and addiction, and I also feel that I'm capable of abstaining without the use of AA or the belief in a higher power of any kind. I don't know whether or not RR is universally more effective than AA/NA, though. I can only speak for myself.

I haven't read the book but I intend to. Thus far I've only read the basics on the approach. I'm definitely interested and will be looking into it more.
 
AA is no more effective than people quitting without any help.

and thanks swimmingdancer, i'll check it out. i'm looking to learn more about addiction in general, not just quitting techniques.
 
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It is true Dave. I am currently in an IOP and there is a clear and strong trend that the people who attend outside help meetings are the ones who are making better progress in their recovery. Then there are the people who like me believe that they dont need it, or I can do it on my own, yet I am barely making any progress at all because I'm too naive to go.
 
Of course. Whether we like it or not, it's a complex problem, and you need outside assistance to understand and deal with the situation. Thinking otherwise is being egotistical and as you put it naive.
 
Exactly. I wish it wasn't so...but we need as much outside assistance as possible. Clearly if we could do it on our own addicts wouldn't be turning to professional help day in and day out.
 
When i first hard about rational recovery my first thought was "sweet, so i can beat this without having to go through all the bullshit of going to those damn meetings?" I don't think anyone new to the program wants to believe that it takes that much work. I will never knock any other methods...except narconon which i can't be bothered to get started on but that shit is REALLY a cult. But yeah if it works for you great i was just too lazy in general i need meetings and shit to keep me busy.
 
stardust.hero said:
Do you have evidence or statistics to back up this claim? Please don't shoot down methods of recovery that can prove helpful to other users with unsupported claims.
Click to expand...

It's difficult to find any reliable statistics. And it depends what you are counting as "success". But there do seem to be a lot of estimates out there of a 5% success rate, which is the same as the success rate for quitting with no treatment.

Here is an article which does a good job of explaining why it is so difficult to measure the success of AA/NA programs. http://www.spiritualriver.com/what-is-the-success-rate-of-recovery-in-aa/
Their conclusion was why not try it and see whether you personally find it helpful.

I do think they forgot to mention one major consideration, though, which is that success rates do matter when AA/NA is the primary treatment available to many addicts and is supported by governments as the best treatment for addictions. I do think that more alternative treatments should be available and if everyone thinks AA/NA works and is the only option then we are not going to research other options or make them available.
 
Swimmingdancer said:
It's difficult to find any reliable statistics. And it depends what you are counting as "success". But there do seem to be a lot of estimates out there of a 5% success rate, which is the same as the success rate for quitting with no treatment.

Here is an article which does a good job of explaining why it is so difficult to measure the success of AA/NA programs. http://www.spiritualriver.com/what-is-the-success-rate-of-recovery-in-aa/
Their conclusion was why not try it and see whether you personally find it helpful.

I do think they forgot to mention one major consideration, though, which is that success rates do matter when AA/NA is the primary treatment available to many addicts and is supported by governments as the best treatment for addictions. I do think that more alternative treatments should be available and if everyone thinks AA/NA works and is the only option then we are not going to research other options or make them available.
Click to expand...

Where does this "5%" statistic thrown around quite a bit on BL, yet no one ever seems to be able to produce the results of a peer-reviewed paper from the primary literature backing this claim.
 
stardust.hero said:
Do you have evidence or statistics to back up this claim? Please don't shoot down methods of recovery that can prove helpful to other users with unsupported claims.
Click to expand...

Missykins said:
Where does this "5%" statistic thrown around quite a bit on BL, yet no one ever seems to be able to produce the results of a peer-reviewed paper from the primary literature backing this claim.
Click to expand...

it was on penn and teller, 20 min in. the results from AA themselves. 5%. suck them ballz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU2YliYttnQ

why do you need a peer reviewed paper? thinking addiction is a disease is a fucking joke. take responsibility and stop.

have used the RR method in relation to smoking and stopped for 3 days so far.
 
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Swimmingdancer said:
Best book on addiction that I have ever read is In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate. It isn't an instruction manual on how to quit though, it's just an excellent book about how addiction works and what causes addiction. .
Click to expand...

I agree that this is a fantastic book about addiction. The title brings up something that has intrigued me for a while, as the concept of the Hungry Ghosts is a Buddhist concept that describes unquenchable desire, or an unfillable void within. The void is spiritual in nature but the Hungry Ghost only feels need and dissatisfaction and craving for whatever makes them feel temporarily mollified and so keeps increasing the intake (addiction). I think that meditation and the Buddhist concepts of living each present moment are incredibly helpful for anyone fighting with their own mind. I remember a man my son met at a court-ordered drug education class who influenced him more than anyone from any recovery program. He was a recovered heroin addict that had spent most of his adult life in and out of prison, on an endless cycle of kicking and relapsing. He credited meditation with finally quieting the anxiety his mind produced. He told my son, "If you are using in order to deal with all the chaos inside you, can stop using, but the need will still be there to escape the chaos. You have to deal with the chaos." My son sought out free meditations in our community (one was an AA meeting that was only meditation) and he found it very helpful. The power of the mindfulness concepts in our culture which pushes instant gratification, quick fixes and a pill for every discomfort, is immense.
 
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