Harm Reduction Random questions about Phenibut, Lorazepm and Kratom

[Mycophile]

I have a few random questions about the above substances so I figured I'd start one thread for them.

I've bolded the more important parts of the questions since there are several smaller ones mixed in there.


1) I am considering trying Phenibut but I don't want to combine anything with it the first time I use it. I have heard that it can take a few hours to kick in and the effects can last up to a day and half or so.


I might want to take Kratom the day after I take Phenibut so if I do so what can I expect?

How would I be likely to feel if I take Kratom the day after Phenibut?

Would I feel really euphoric? Sedated? Any side effects I could expect?

Or would it not really be like "combining" the two drugs properly to take one 24 hours after the other?

Is this safe to do and do most people really feel like they are still on Phenibut the day after they take it?


2) I am considering trying Lorazepam but I've never taken it before.

What is a good first dosage of Lorazepam for someone who has no tolerance and has never taken it before who is about 185lbs?

As a reference point, when I used to take Klonopin and had a tolerance (I don't anymore) I took 1.0--1.5mgs a day as a therapeutic dose so whatever the equivalent of that might be for Lorazepam for someone who DOESN'T have a tolerance might be correct.

I was originally started on 0.5mgs of Klonopin before I had a tolerance so that is another reference point for what might be recommended by doctors.


3) If I use Lorazepam and Phenibut how many days would it be safe to put between the two??

I THINK Lorazepam has about a 12 hour half life and I've heard that it should be mostly out of the system to the point where it should have few mental effects after 72 hours.

Is this correct?

Would it be safe to take Lorazepm 3 or 4 days after taking Phenibut or to take Phenibut 3 or 4 days after taking Lorazepam?



4) Is there any reason not to combine Kratom and Lorazepam?

Before I stopped using Klonopin I combined it with Kratom with no problems at all.


5) Should I avoid taking Diphenhdramine and/or Melatonin the night after I take Phenibut?

I usually take both every night to fall asleep but I don't want to be overly sedated to a dangerous or unpleasant point if taking them the night after using Phenibut would get me too knocked out.



Thanks

 

[Joey24x18]

Coming from a guy who's withdrawaling from phenibut at thus moment, I would reccomend throwing it in the trash.
I've taken benzos the day after phenibut though and didn't die. Just be careful.

 

[Demigodz4Life]

As Joey mentioned, you really need to be careful with phenibut. But since that's not what you're asking, let's get started, shall we?

Phenibut day 1, kratom day 2. Many people state that these 2 otc drugs go together like peanuts and butter. If you enjoy the sedative effects of opiates, the phenibut will eliminate the stimulatory effects of kratom, while adding to the euphoria and sedation. Many people say this is a winning combination.

A good starting dosage with lorazepam, given your parameters and previous experience, would probably be in the range of 2-5 mg, titrated for desired effects.

Phenibut is a gaba - b agonist, while lorazepam is a benzodiazepine receptor positive allosteric modulator, so in theory you could do them together, and I have. However, from a hr standpoint, I would give at least 2 full days between dosing one and the other. The half life of phenibut is about 5 hours, but it certainly doesn't feel that way so the pharmodynamics seem to be rather unusual. 2 full days would be good to prevent any gaba agonism overlap. Btw, for me at least, mental effects from lorazepam are over 12 hours after a moderate dose.

Is there any reason to combine lorazepam and kratom? I would say yes, but that is due to my preference for the sedative effects of opiates. The lorazepam will act as a potentiator for the kratom, which is where I feel the real utility of benzos come from. Kratom is unlikely to produce significant respiratory depression, so the real danger of combining opiates and benzos doesn't really apply here.

Should you avoid dph or melatonin after phenibut? The only problems I could see would be 1, over sedation, not really a problem considering the various moas involved, and 2, phenibut has downstream dopaminergic properties, while dph is a dopamine antagonist. What this means pharmacologically, I don't not.know.

Enjoy your experiences!

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Oh and btw, when combining the phenibut and kratom, my dosing schedule would be, 2g phenibut upon waking, and kratom in late afternoon. I wouldn't recommend laying down and getting all comfy, because phenibut has a tendency to make you fall asleep with little to no control, and the kratom dose would wind up getting wasted.

Best of luck. And enjoy, sounds like you've got some good days ahead of you!

 

[Mycophile]

Coming from a guy who's withdrawaling from phenibut at thus moment, I would reccomend throwing it in the trash.
I've taken benzos the day after phenibut though and didn't die. Just be careful.

I'm aware of the need to be careful with it I really only want to try it once out of curiosity.

Even if I liked it from what I have read it sounds like I could safely take it once a week.

Isn't it possible to safely take one dose a week??

Should I really be that frightened of it that I should throw it in the garbage?

 

[Mycophile]

Oh and btw, when combining the phenibut and kratom, my dosing schedule would be, 2g phenibut upon waking, and kratom in late afternoon. I wouldn't recommend laying down and getting all comfy, because phenibut has a tendency to make you fall asleep with little to no control, and the kratom dose would wind up getting wasted.

Best of luck. And enjoy, sounds like you've got some good days ahead of you!

What do you mean by the bold part?

That you just randomly fall asleep if you are on Phenibut or have any in your system?

I was thinking of going to the gym after taking it to see if it helps with social anxiety.

Is that a bad idea?

I don't want to be falling asleep randomly.

Hell, I'm still not even sure I should try it but I'm curious.

And for you personally, if you'd never tried Phenibut before would you combine it with Kratom the first time or take it by itself?

I DO enjoy the stimulant side of Kratom very much, the only thing about it I DON'T like is the difficulty I have sleeping after taking Kratom.

I'm still questioning whether or not trying Phenibut is a bad idea, but I'm just curious.

 

[deos68]

i would stay away from phenibut all together it's a short lived run that will end in withdrawal
lorazepam will not give you much of a high for rec use IME but did kill my anxiety and panic
i dont use as it much anymore but i still do from time to time the only side effect i get is memory loss not to extreme but very noticeable
no prior exp with kratom but i have read about it and nothing but bad news
better off smoking good ol cannabis

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've been using Phenibut for the past 7 to 8 years; luckily, never picked up a daily habit and never had that bad of an experience w/ it.

I've also been a heroin addict and benzo abuser of the past 7 to 8 years as well; so I have a pretty good idea of what you are asking about.

first off, you will NOT be feeling Phenibut for 24hrs; thats just hearsay. for a first dosage I would suggest starting w/ less than a gram and maxing out at 1.5G's total. that is just for the Phenibut alone. it takes a good 2-4 hours to actually get a feel; so do NOT expect anything right away. if you take TOO MUCH then yes, the Phenibut will PUT YOU TO SLEEP and you will have little to no control of where/when you pass out. you may just be sitting at your desk at work, or out to eat, and you will start to "NOD OUT". so its always better to take LESS when you are first trying Phenibut.

Kratom and Phenibut are OK together; nothing too concerning here. I used to shoot a gram of dope and still take 3.5G's of Phenibut and everything would be OK. again, this is based on MY TOLERANCE. you on the other hand will be taking in a lot less but the combining of Kratom and Phenibut is OK and many do it; you do NOT have to wait 24hrs but if that is what you want to do, then by all means, please do so. the more time the better but many take at the same time.

lorazepam is a weaker benzo (Ativan) but when combining w/ ANY DRUGS is always a bit more dangerous, so taking .5 is always best. the less the better, man. thats if you feel the need to even take the lorazepam at all. like I said, start w/ .5 and see how you feel from there; you can always take more, but can never take less (this goes for all drugs).

 

[pinpoint]

What do you mean by the bold part?

That you just randomly fall asleep if you are on Phenibut or have any in your system?

He's right.

Phenibut is weird in that if you want to be stimulated you can get an amphetamine-like buzz going but if you want to sleep/relax you can get a benzo-like feeling going.

I recently jumped back on phenibut and last night while on a couple grams I was watching youtube videos at about 11PM and the next minute it seemed like I blinked my eyes and it was 4AM. I had no memory of going to bed or the last several minutes of consciousness like I usually do. It's a strange feeling that can occur naturally - if you've ever woken up feeling like you never went to sleep that's basically the feeling. Unlike benzo's everything up until the point of going to bed is crystal clear in my head. In my experience I don't believe you can fall asleep like that while actively doing something important, but every one responds differently and it's especially true when it comes to phenibut.

The cliché of 'do not drive or operate machinery until you know how this drug affects you' definitely applies here.

Oh and phenibut & kratom go together like PB&J (or maybe PB&K, amirite?) - it was extremely euphoric and actually induced a hypomanic state the first few times. I wouldn't recommend it for your first time though because the euphoria was a bit overwhelming at times, if such a thing is even possible.

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Yeah, what pinpoint said about not falling asleep while doing something is very true... I only had one experience where I was uncontrollably nodding at work on high dose phenibut. Everyone thought I was on dope, and I don't blame them, that's exactly how I looked. But, for the most part, you'll only fall asleep if you're laying in bed or not doing anything that requires concentration.

I would personally take the phenibut by itself once to get an idea of what it's like, and then next time mix with the kratom. Like pinpoint said, they go together like pb&k! That had me loling.

 

[Mycophile]

He's right.

Phenibut is weird in that if you want to be stimulated you can get an amphetamine-like buzz going but if you want to sleep/relax you can get a benzo-like feeling going.

I recently jumped back on phenibut and last night while on a couple grams I was watching youtube videos at about 11PM and the next minute it seemed like I blinked my eyes and it was 4AM. I had no memory of going to bed or the last several minutes of consciousness like I usually do. It's a strange feeling that can occur naturally - if you've ever woken up feeling like you never went to sleep that's basically the feeling. Unlike benzo's everything up until the point of going to bed is crystal clear in my head. In my experience I don't believe you can fall asleep like that while actively doing something important, but every one responds differently and it's especially true when it comes to phenibut.

The cliché of 'do not drive or operate machinery until you know how this drug affects you' definitely applies here.

Oh and phenibut & kratom go together like PB&J (or maybe PB&K, amirite?) - it was extremely euphoric and actually induced a hypomanic state the first few times. I wouldn't recommend it for your first time though because the euphoria was a bit overwhelming at times, if such a thing is even possible.

So you would NOT recommend I go out to the gym my first time on Phenibut, for example??

PART of the reason I want to try it is to see how it effects my social anxiety and ability to socialize.

And I've heard it can be VERY subtle at first so lets say I don't even leave my house when I take it and just sit around on the internet and watching TV, will I even know for sure that I am on anything at all?

Or will I have a hard time telling I am on anything??

And do you think it's a bad idea to try it out?

I mean, can someone actually get addicted to it if they stick to only one day a week?

I'm just curious but some people here are recommending I never touch it in the first place.

 

[Mycophile]

Once again, I'm just curious to know if I do Phenibut and don't leave my house or go anywhere will I even know I'm on it by the way I'm feeling?

I have heard it is very subtle so what am I likely to feel first to make me aware that it is working?

And if you guys had never done Phenibut before, would you combine it with Kratom the first time or would you want to see what it feels like by itself first?

Maybe that's just a matter of personal preference but I usually like to try a drug by itself first before combining it with anything else but I just want to hear other's opinions on what they'd do.

And if I DO combine it with Kratom will I be able to really feel what the Phenibut is doing and get an authentic Phenibut experience, or will the experience end up feeling quite different than Phenibut on it's own would make me feel??


Oh, and one last question: When I take Kratom I take Allegra D in order to combat the itchiness Kratom causes because I have skin conditions it makes act up.

So is there any reason that combining Phenibut with Allegra D on top of the Kratom isn't safe??

Thanks

 

[Demigodz4Life]

You'll know, especially if it's your first time. It's not overwhelming, But it's certainly noticeable. As pointed out, it has a delayed onset, in the realm of about 4 hours, but I've felt it closer to the 2 hr point. Honestly, you may benefit by leaving it alone, it's got a hell of a wd. Very weird in the paranoid sense. Irrationality and insomnia seem to be the main points. I've said this before, but anyone looking into phenibut should get a script of gabapentin in case they do get bit.

Allegra d shouldn't have any contraindications with phenibut.

If you're an experienced kratom user, you'll be able to tell the differences. If not, just try the phenibut by itself, you'll get a feel very quickly for the effects.

 

[pinpoint]

^Yes, yes & yes.

If you are doing something stimulating it's the kind of drug to support that mindset - you'll get the true experience if you go out to the gym and socialize (bring lots of tunes.. it induces MDMA-style music appreciation). My first time I was getting these empathetic rushes just simply socializing with people, which is why there are quite a few comparisons to MDMA.

It's funny now to look back but I was horrified by the intensity and weirdness (weird is a vague term but it's seriously the only way to describe it) withdrawal. It's the only drug-induced withdrawal that has me literally convinced that I'm dying of an obscure ailment which is fueled by hours of researching on websites like symptomchecker.com when in fact the symptoms are always a temporary effect of withdrawal. I get these weird OE/CEV's when I'm trying to sleep too and it's not a fun hallucination, it's shit like eyeballs staring at me in the darkness - phenibut withdrawal honestly has me sleeping with the lights on for about a week.

None of these things you have to worry about if you can keep it to once a week. Myco, you honestly seem like the most cautious user on BL so either you don't trust yourself or I've got the wrong impression. If you can use UEI once and not immediately want to reorder then you're certainly capable of limiting phenibut use.

The problem with phenibut is that you aren't the same person when you are on it. When you take your fear & anxiety department completely offline like phenibut induces you become a different person. You can't tell what kind of person you'll become but with zero inhibitions it's usually not a good proposition. I too intended to limit my usage but after that first time I knew I was fucked, lol. It improved every aspect of my life and in the end it was totally worth it, but even that is debatable since I could've probably accomplished the same goals and saved myself the acute pain. It's like I condensed 6 months of frustration & anxiety of achieving my goals in to one week of hell.

In the end only you can decide. I hope this at least gives you some clarity to make the right choice (in your mind).

 

[Mycophile]

^Yes, yes & yes.

If you are doing something stimulating it's the kind of drug to support that mindset - you'll get the true experience if you go out to the gym and socialize (bring lots of tunes.. it induces MDMA-style music appreciation). My first time I was getting these empathetic rushes just simply socializing with people, which is why there are quite a few comparisons to MDMA.

It's funny now to look back but I was horrified by the intensity and weirdness (weird is a vague term but it's seriously the only way to describe it) withdrawal. It's the only drug-induced withdrawal that has me literally convinced that I'm dying of an obscure ailment which is fueled by hours of researching on websites like symptomchecker.com when in fact the symptoms are always a temporary effect of withdrawal. I get these weird OE/CEV's when I'm trying to sleep too and it's not a fun hallucination, it's shit like eyeballs staring at me in the darkness - phenibut withdrawal honestly has me sleeping with the lights on for about a week.

None of these things you have to worry about if you can keep it to once a week. Myco, you honestly seem like the most cautious user on BL so either you don't trust yourself or I've got the wrong impression. If you can use UEI once and not immediately want to reorder then you're certainly capable of limiting phenibut use.

The problem with phenibut is that you aren't the same person when you are on it. When you take your fear & anxiety department completely offline like phenibut induces you become a different person. You can't tell what kind of person you'll become but with zero inhibitions it's usually not a good proposition. I too intended to limit my usage but after that first time I knew I was fucked, lol. It improved every aspect of my life and in the end it was totally worth it, but even that is debatable since I could've probably accomplished the same goals and saved myself the acute pain. It's like I condensed 6 months of frustration & anxiety of achieving my goals in to one week of hell.

In the end only you can decide. I hope this at least gives you some clarity to make the right choice (in your mind).

Thanks, I consider that a complement.

I might take it TOO far sometimes with the anxiety over taking substances but I think it's smart to research everything and consider the negative effects.

Of course after using UEI I DID want to order more but there are some reasons I didn't I don't need to get into.

It's just that from all the things you guys are saying about Phenibut I'm TERRIFIED of what that would be like, I mean your description of what you dealt with sounded REALLY bad...and so personally I am sure that no matter HOW good Phenibut feels I am concerned enough about W.Ds that I'd never use it more than once a week.

I'm just curious about substances like everyone else and since I bought a little I may as well try it.

However, I tried Lorzapam for the first time today instead, so would I be safe to take Phenibut tommrrow seeing as I'd still have some Lorazapam left in my system??

Personally I don't think I'm going to do it this weekend because I don't want to have problems from mixing Lorazapam and Phenibut.

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Unless you dose them concurrently, you won't have any problems. Even if you did dose them together, phenibut is a gaba-b agonist while lorazepam is a.gaba-a PAM. The only problem would be the cumulative sedation, and that shouldn't really be too bad. But, you sound like a very conservative and responsible psychotropic user, so caution would be your best bet.

If you limit usage to once a week, you'll never have to worry about wds. But as pinpoint pointed out, the first time I tried it I knew I was in for a world of hurt, since I was aware of the dosing restrictions, but it felt really really good. It was like, "eh I'll deal with it as it comes,.I'm gonna enjoy this". Bad move on my part. But, if you are smart about your usage, the phenibut/kratom combo will provide a ton of euphoria, and no horrible wds. Enjoy mycophile, im envious of your responsible demeanour and intelligent approach to psychotropic substances.

 

[Mycophile]

Unless you dose them concurrently, you won't have any problems. Even if you did dose them together, phenibut is a gaba-b agonist while lorazepam is a.gaba-a PAM. The only problem would be the cumulative sedation, and that shouldn't really be too bad. But, you sound like a very conservative and responsible psychotropic user, so caution would be your best bet.

If you limit usage to once a week, you'll never have to worry about wds. But as pinpoint pointed out, the first time I tried it I knew I was in for a world of hurt, since I was aware of the dosing restrictions, but it felt really really good. It was like, "eh I'll deal with it as it comes,.I'm gonna enjoy this". Bad move on my part. But, if you are smart about your usage, the phenibut/kratom combo will provide a ton of euphoria, and no horrible wds. Enjoy mycophile, im envious of your responsible demeanour and intelligent approach to psychotropic substances.

Thanks bro.

So by not to use them "concurrently" do you mean not at the same time?

Since I took 3mgs today, the laste 1 mg at 12:05, I will probably still have 1.5mg in my system tomoorow if I use Phenibut.

And if it was your first time using Phenibut but you'd used Kratom before would you personally combine them or would you choose to do the Phenibut alone??

I kind of want to do them together cause I want to do Kratom tomorrow (IF I choose to do Phenibut tomorrow) but usually when I do a drug for the first time I like to use it by itself.


So there's really NOTHING bad that could happen if I do Phenibut tomorrow and I still have some Lorazapam in my system?

Am I correct that you said you have taken Lorazapam and Phenibut together before?

Thanks

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Well, to say NOTHING bad will happen is of course, a leap I wouldn't be willing to make. All I can say is I've done them together, in similar doses to yours, maybe a bit bigger, and I've never had even a negative experience from the combination.

 

[pinpoint]

You'll probably go through all this deliberation only to find out you're one of the godforsaken non-responders. That would suck. It's either going to be an awesome experience or you'll get all the negatives of alcohol intoxication for about 24 hours.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Mycophile]

You'll probably go through all this deliberation only to find out you're one of the godforsaken non-responders. That would suck. It's either going to be an awesome experience or you'll get all the negatives of alcohol intoxication for about 24 hours.

Let us know how it goes.

What do you mean about "the negatives of alcohol intoxication"?

Like some people take it and just feel completely like shit for 24 hours?

Would I be stumbling around looking drunk?

I'm staying with my parents right now and do NOT want to look fucked up in front of them...

I have work tommorrow morning so I don't want to feel like shit tommorrow, today would be ok but I'd prefer not to...

LIke I said, I still have a bit of Lorazapam left in my system from yesterday so i don't know if it's too bad an idea to do it today but demigodz says he's mixed them on the same day so I'm guessing it should be ok even though that's just anecdote....

So the left over bit of Lorazapam with the Phenibut wouldn't create strong Central Nervous System depression??

Still trying to decide if I'll do it today.

If not I'll try it another time in the next couple weeks probably.

If I DO take it how long does it really last??