Quitting/Tapering Thread.

[catching fish]

Thanks for sharing that Halif. Extremely interesting and quite confronting. It isn't confronting because it took me out of my comfort zone, rather confronting because our lives are are so unbelievable comparable - even down to extremely minute details.

I'm very glad & grateful that you post here.

CF

 

[Halif]

Holy fuck. 5 days....5 days of sleeping and eating, and then sleeping, and then eating....and then sleeping. The fuck? 5 days of psychotic flashes of images. Images that haunt me... Funny things, fucked up things, intense things.
I feel like a supercharged car that has crashed and can barely accelerate.

That sucks, doesn't it. That's why they call it a "crash" I guess. But after heavy use like yours, the crash period goes on and on as your body tries to rebalance itself. Sleeping and eating (nutritous food) is about the best and only thing you can do. I know it's torture, but you need to ride it out.

I thought the exact same analogy as you - a car whose engine just wouldn't even turn over. I couldn't stand up for more than a minute. I slept for days, but a lot of it wasn't good sleep, it was either a black hole of utter nothingness, or it was feverish with all kinds of memories or nightmares coming out.

The last thing you asked: How do you stop it happening again? Shit... I wish I knew the answer to that.

All I can suggest is the same thing I tell everyone: Try to be aware of the lead up to previous use, especially binges. Was there soemthing that caused you to say "fuck it!" and go nuts? Were you feeling flat?

I think that's about as much as you can do to prepare yourself for the post recovery stage - when the novelty of just feeling normal has worn off and the memory of the hell you went through starts to fade a little - investigate what you got out of meth, or what you go away from by using it.

Good luck, man. Keep that supercar in the garage and she'll be right soon enough.

 

[Halif]

Double posting, but this is a response to CF

It isn't confronting because it took me out of my comfort zone, rather confronting because our lives are are so unbelievable comparable - even down to extremely minute details.

In a nutshell, that's the exact reason I share these personal details about my life - because I went through all of my teens, my twenties, and the start of my thirties thinking I was totally alone in feeling the way I did and dealing with that shit. I've now met so many people who can relate to at least part of what I expressed, that I realise it's actually common and there are loads of people out there trying, struggling, every day of their lives, just to do the basic day to day things.

If I speak honestly, them someone else says they have a similar experience, then more come out, I think slowly we'll get closer to a time and place where people don't have to spend so much energy pretending they feel OK and doing all the "Oh, I'm fine, yeah" chit chat stuff. It takes so much energy to put up a facade, and then to realise that the other person actually feels the way you do, and you're both pretending.... revelation! Then you can actually have a real conversation.

There's a lot to be stressed about in this day and age. I think it's critical that people are able to speak honestly TO EACH OTHER, and not have to rely on doctors who have lots of theory and very little to no actual experience of depression , anxiety, etc. Peer support beats the shit out of seeing a psych, IMO.

 

[opi8]

Peer support beats the shit out of seeing a psych, IMO.

Don't worry Halif, youi have peers here who support beating the shit out of pyschs who've wronged you. That's what you meant, right?

 

[Halif]

^haha!! Yes, totally. I'm glad someone knew what I was hoping to happen.



*joke (just in case someone takes it seriously... better add an emoticon %)

You're fucking hilarious sometimes, opi8. Don't ever stop posting here.

 

[Rahcookiemonster]

Thanks for the reply Halif. I appreciate it.

How long until I can get my energy back? Its been just over a week and I thought I'd feel much better by now. Still have no energy, peroidic naps throughout the day. I don't think I would be able to even go to work if I had to.

All I want is to go to the gym, eat healthy and put back on some weight.... My body and mind is still super floppy. I feel dissociated.
How is everyone else going?

 

[chugs]

first 24 hours without any opiates.....feel like 6/7 out of ten. no bupe in 48 hours and no codeine in 24 hours.

last use of smack five days ago. am looking forward to being able to use drugs sporadically again without getting sick and being fucked up for days on end. Its been a rocky 60 days but i feel like in a months time i'll be back to occasional use and being able to live without any bupe or such.

at least that's what is motivating me. the idea of never being high simply forces me back to using.

 

[Halif]

^ yeah chugs, don't think forward too far and have ideas in your head like "I'll never use again". You need to be tough with yourself at the moment because you've set out to clean up. However, it's those extremes of thinking that can send you over the edge.

It can be de-motivating in the extreme to try to get off something that has brought you lots of good times, and I don't see they point in saying "never again". Neither do I see the point in thinking too much about it while you're detoxing. Just say "not now", and the future can take of itself. One thing at a time, right?

 

[Halif]

Rahcookiemonster: the lethargy blows, doesn't it? Unfortunately it can drag on a fair bit. Two weeks or so. Sorry to bring bad news.

Are you taking vitamin supplements and eating healthily? You've probably lost a fair bit of weight and muscle tone from binging. Like with opiate withdrawal, there comes a point where you have to just get up and go to teh gym or go outside and force yourself to exercise. Only you can know exactly when it ticks over from physical and psychological, to more mental than physical.

From what you've said, though, about the time frames, I'd say you're pretty close to the point where some exercise and good, nutritious food will fast track your recovery. Hard to get the momentum going, back the good thing is once you're moving again you'll feel way better and shouldn't be bombarded with desolation which lasts months - the PAWS that comes with long term opiate abuse and then getting clean.

Good luck, buddy

 

[footscrazy]

I'm so happy to join the ranks (so many of us quitting atm!) and say I'm now opie free.

I took my last full dose on the 3rd January and today is the first day I've felt almost normal, and have felt good enough I've forgotten I'm kicking. If I'd known it would take almost a month to get here I don't think I'd ever have had the guts to start. It was way more brutal than I expected, I mean...fuck. This drawn out bullshit is fresh enough in my memory to be a deterrant to getting on again (for now) - the thought of what a decent dose would do to me in the days after now actually strikes fear into my soul. I've gotten away easily with opiates before - I had no wds to speak of after stopping codeine after a year and a half of daily use, so I wasn't prepared.

I did a pretty long codeine taper with the idea that switching to a short acting opiate would be a good way to temper the wds from the long acting sub/pst, and then have the codeine be pretty easy to come off itself. It didn't really work, whether that's a function of the long halflife sub/pst I was on before or a function of the taper itself I don't know. I wonder now whether it'd be better to bite the bullet and just bear it for two weeks rather than feeling pretty crap for a month. That being said, I found a small (100mg or so) dose of codeine every few days was good for my mental state - to remind myself that the shit I wasn't feeling wasn't permamnent, and feel where I was trying to get. Probably prolonged my pain too, though.

I found most of the meds I took pretty useless. Valium did fuck all, and I was prescribed pramipexole for restless legs which seemed to make it worse. I have no tolly for mirtazapine so that was good to knock myself out at night. Threshold doses of dxm helped too, I don't find the dxm does much to alleviate the symptoms but I did find the dissociation helped. Exercise was the best for restless legs. Strangely too, playing the piano. I haven't done that for years, but sitting down and having that focus and body coordination took my mind off it.

Good luck to everyone who is tapering/tapered, and keep us updated. It's not easy.

 

[Halif]

^ That's great to hear, Footsy.

It's really hard to say what going over onto codeine as a taper-bridge thing did or didn't do. That's the thing about tapering - you tend to feel shit anyway, so it's hard to say if it's worth it or not. It probably was a good idea overall... but who knows? And who cares? Because you've reached a goal that's hard to get to, and that's commendable!

Enjoy now, the feeling of NOT being a slave. There might be ups and downs (hell, of course there will be - that's life for virtually everyone whether they're users or not), but just bask in that knowledge that you.are.not.a.slave.now.

Congrats

 

[Christ!]

Well done Foots (and everyone else who's been working towards a better place)

PAWS sucks. I found the acute phase of withdrawal easier since my motivation was much higher. I found writing notes to myself helped when I was coming off bupe (reasons why I'm doing it) - posting here is good too, just so you have a record, and remember that you can feel OK and even great without a daily dose of whatever.

Exercise was def. the thing that helped me the most. Hard to get into the routine when you feel tired/depressed but so worth it for me.

 

[jadehick92]

Wow foots i woke up this morning feeling crappy and down about myself. Im on day 13 clean. I dont have many symptoms left just the rls, insomnia and general adgitation but i guess thats mental withdrawal really? Oh and i feel like i have zero energy levels. However you have given me a little motivation to keep going. I tappered too, over two month i found that was best suited for me as i have such a busy lifestyle i could not just quit ct plus i did it before and the rls got the better of me after 10 days. If you dont mind me asking how are you now after a month clean? What about insomnia, aggitation, rls? Are they gone if so how long before they go? I dont know much about paws anybody know much about it? Oh a congratulations foots Youve done amazing xxx

 

[footscrazy]

Thanks heaps guys. You're right Halif, no longer being bound to this is the best thing, and I have to keep reminding myself that. It's funny, I've found myself automatically using the same excuses to get back on that were my motivations to quit. Like, this would be so much more interesting if I was high, or I would feel so much more comfortable socially if I was high. But the reality seems to be that any long term drug use eventually exaggerates my negative traits - or maybe, it's just that being on something makes it easier not to care, or do anything about them. Using any drug daily my ideal day ends up being sitting at home alone getting wrecked. I become a bit of a hermit. I want to have an interest in the outside world again. I've definitely experienced that overwhelming lethargy/fatigue but mentally I'm feeling good, more motivated, and that was the reason I wanted to do this. It's way too easy for me to let weeks and months turn into years and get only occasional moments where I can see myself clearly and think what the fuck am I doing, and where has that time gone?

After quitting methamphetamine 3 years ago I substituted with opiates almost immediately, and I drank every day through both. I stopped drinking 4 months ago, I've stopped opiates too now, and I'm left with nothing. This is the biggest transition of all really, and it's pretty intimidating.

Jade, you obviously have such a strong commitment to reach your goal, and that's what will get you there. I think you're almost there, too. You've done so well I think sticking to the taper is one of the hardest things - for me, knowing my tolerance has dropped has always been a big trigger. For me at this point, the main symptom I have left is sweats, especially at night, I'll wake up drenched. Lethargy, too. The restless legs stuck around for ages and were the symptom I found the worst. Just not being able to get comfortable, to sit still - it makes the day feel so goddammned long. Honestly, that lasted pretty much a month, but I think that drawn out shit is because of sub - that shit really is so bad to come off. Hopefully it won't last that long for you - I don't think it will, codeine has a shorter half life, so you should be free sooner. Insomnia was luckily never a big problem for me. Also, I felt 'better' fairly suddenly - I was still pretty conscious of feeling crappy one day, then the next...I realised I'd gone a few hours and completely forgotten about it. So you never know, it may be over sooner than you think.

How long have you been off now, Christ?

 

[Dr Phibes]

Hi Footscrazy, I know you have posted here a lot but did not realise you had taken the plunge (unintended pun) and joined the getting clean mob you expect show up here every year about this time.

Have to tell you, it was a post of yours, in another thread I think, about how kicking codeine after 12 months was so easy it made me feel like a wimp each time I tried. I kinda feel vindicated - I am not have a go at you.

Maybe the small doses of codeine during your WD has drawn out your WD a bit, although you started with a pretty high opioid habit, the symptoms and longevity sound like you may have an amount of benzo WD as well - idk.

Chugs, listen to Halif, always listen to Halif.

For my part, when I embarked on this journey I had all the motivation in the world, still have, but I never intended to give up opiates altogether. If given a choice of only taking one drug for the rest of my life including alcohol (shouldn't need to mention that specifically) it would be opioids. I feel great now, my biggest problem is what to do with all this time and energy but thanks to codeine I have a lot to fix. Basically, you will have to read back if care what that means. I have been clean since Christmas day - but my ex-wife decided to drop in 3 SR oxy today. Looking forward to the weekend.

Fuck the clichés, if enjoying opiates is your motivation for getting clean then go for it. Just remember recreation and self medication are very different beasts usually leading to very different outcomes. "Living in the moment" - I think it is called - is not as easy as it sounds but is very effective for PAWS, trust me. (and exercise obv.)

 

[jadehick92]

Thanks foots your doing so well too im on the two week mark now the hot and cold flushes still come but i can cope with them. However the rls seems to have calmed down from yesterday and i managed some sleep however my mind was so active dreaming all sorts & i also kept waking up but some sleep is better than no sleep your right though not being able to get comfortable is hell. Do you find your self snapping at people? Especially people you care about? My patient levels are so low. Do you find this? Im guessing its the lack of sleep and general agitation. i cant wait for my energy levels are back and im back to my normal happy self. Also my skin feels like its on fire sometimes mostly at night is this something you have? Sorry about all the questions. Lol jade xxx

 

[popeyes mate]

Great to hear the success stories Well Done!

Off to a big music event tomorrow with my mate who Ive taken a lot of drugs with over the years.

She's prob close to 6 months clean. Me 9 weeks. No substances purchased. Big achievement for us both!

We will def be getting nice and drunk though ;-)

 

[chugs]

Chugs, listen to Halif, always listen to Halif.

For my part, when I embarked on this journey I had all the motivation in the world, still have, but I never intended to give up opiates altogether. If given a choice of only taking one drug for the rest of my life including alcohol (shouldn't need to mention that specifically) it would be opioids. I feel great now, my biggest problem is what to do with all this time and energy but thanks to codeine I have a lot to fix. Basically, you will have to read back if care what that means. I have been clean since Christmas day - but my ex-wife decided to drop in 3 SR oxy today. Looking forward to the weekend.

Fuck the clichés, if enjoying opiates is your motivation for getting clean then go for it. Just remember recreation and self medication are very different beasts usually leading to very different outcomes. "Living in the moment" - I think it is called - is not as easy as it sounds but is very effective for PAWS, trust me. (and exercise obv.)

ha

well i feel like i've got it under control. After 3 years of solid use and a good half year at a gram a day i managed to slow down the spiral of doom and move onto black market bupe, initially 4-16mg a day bupe to 0.010mg a day. I changed dealers and moved away from some really evil shit that was cut with some long life antagonist. Seriously you could put yourself in precipitated withdrawals with 2mg of bupe after 19 hours withdrawing (and scoring a 15+ on the COWLS test). Worse this stuff wasn't getting one high anymore. It'd just stop you getting sick and that was about it. Cloudy as hell and smelling of vinegar.

After a massive amount of pain (per the chronicles of chugs) I found my newer dealer to be far better. He has a principal that if you cut your shit that eventually you'll be dobbed in (and seeing that his spent a serious amount of time behind bars i figured he doesn't want to go back). So with cleaner gear and able to cut to bupe after only 6 hours between shots its been a lot easier and not having to use 8mg when inducting is a major plus.

So I had a deal of moving to a place where i could function without any opiate (bupe included) and i reached that space about a 2-3 weeks ago. so in recognition and to reward myself I went and got on. Now i'm back to just Fridays (though sometimes Tuesday is Friday and friday is tuesday)

 

[weliveinawheel]

I am trying to quit. And I am unsure of how.

I take between 10-40mg percocet a day (for about a year, every day for about 6months). 40 to feel really good, 10 on days where I don't have many.

I will take about 2-5mg, if I am really low, to avoid w/d - and that dose helps me fall asleep.

I am just worried that I will have really bad w/d.

I have ativan - does it help?

 

[catching fish]

I am trying to quit. And I am unsure of how.

I take between 10-40mg percocet a day (for about a year, every day for about 6months). 40 to feel really good, 10 on days where I don't have many.

I will take about 2-5mg, if I am really low, to avoid w/d - and that dose helps me fall asleep.

I am just worried that I will have really bad w/d.

I have ativan - does it help?

Is it feasible to go cold turkey? If circumstances do permit that then I would certainly go for it rather than doing a taper. You'll probably have a pretty awful few days, but it won't be much longer than that until you feel like you are on the mend. Ativan will definitely help with sleeping.

Good luck man. When you rise it'll be like strawberry fields.