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Quiting heroin

M

Mr_Pin

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Aug 30, 2017
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17
Hey so Saturday was myast hit of heroin.
After spending ?5000 in savings and a years worth of paydays
I decided soon I'll get to the point where I'm robbing some old lady to get a fix.
Sunday was hell but with the help of about 15x 10mg valium throughout the day.
Today I'm on subutex but I don't know if I can do it.
I suffer from extreme chronic back pain which my doctor won't give me proper pain killers for.
I also suffer from depression and anxiety disorder.
Today it's all come flooding back I feel like self harming , I've been in tears and my pain is back.
I don't know what to do but just want a hit , would do anything for the sweet warm rush to take all the pain away.
Either that or just end everything :/
So yea that's how I'm feeling right now :'(
 
I’m going to move this to SL. Hopefully some can respond to you soon as I am busy with work. But I’ll check in with you later. Welcome to BL!

od ->sl
 
Thanks, sorry not use to posting in recovery!
Took a little bit of subutex and went for a walk and feel a bit better. Earlier was horrible I just broke down out of no where. Everything that I've been blocking comes rushing back.
I guess as the days go by it gets easier?
But they say once an addict always an addict? :/
 
There is zero reason to think about the long term situation right now. Just focus on staying off heroin for 24 hours at a time. If that requires Valium on top of the sub then so be it. Once you get through the first week you can start planning out long term strategy and you have a ton of options there. So my question is what can you do to get through tonight and tomorrow?
 
I think CJ has some good advice. The struggle you face right now is the important battle. Keep making it through the day and as the weeks go by the fight should be easier.

While there is some truth to the statement "once an addict always an addict", I think it paints the wrong picture. Although the urge to use a substance may never go away completely, it is possible to learn new coping methods and healthy ways to deal with problems that doesn't involve a substance. Addicts are more than just their substance use disorder.
 
Are you on a subuxone program or are you using it illicitly?

If you wanna get off heroin and don't feel like you can handle the symptoms of withdrawal and PAWS there's no reason you should have too. I've recently gotten off heroin myself. I had a really bad and very significant habit. I decided I simply wasn't gonna make it if I had to deal with withdrawal and PAWS induced depression and such. I chose to get on methadone. It certainly hasn't been without challenges but it's been a breeze compared to if I'd tried to stop without methadone.

Doesn't have to be methadone of course. But I've found heavy heroin users tend to find subuxone insufficient and do better with methadone. While people with smaller habits find methadone too sedating and do better with subuxone. Either way you need to be on enough to suppress the withdrawal and clearly right now that's not the case with you.

You can do it man. But you shouldn't have to suffer trying to quit if you don't think you can make it that way. That's what maintainence is for.

I believe in "once an addict always an addict". But you gotta keep it in its proper context. All it means is that you can't forget what it was like. And you'll always be prone to starting again. It doesn't mean you'll always have to feel like this. It doesn't mean you can't beat it. All it means is you'll never entirely be the same as before you started using.
 
Yea I'm on subutex illicitly. My nearest drug recovery service is quite far away. I've found going for walks is a great help in clearing my head and subsiding cravings. Although I read failed today, I took my subutex and then a hit of H. It was the nicest hit of H I've had in months but I felt like shit and really disappointed with myself. And methadone I really want to avoid replacing one drug with another. But if I carry on struggling I think I might look into it, got to be better than relapsing.
In regards to the H I took this morning, will it be ok to take my subutex tomorrow as normal? Thats one thing I'm worried about.
Many thanks for the replies guys
 
If you had buprenorphine in your system when you used H you should be okay to take buprenorphine tomorrow as usual. Best to wait 24hrs after the dope just to be sure, but what is important is that you already had buprenorphine in your system.

Getting in a proper ORT medication as part of a program is very different than just being dependent on opioids like heroin, or using illicit ORT medication for that matter. It will give you the added support of a drug treatment program, with doctor visits, therapy and likely drug testing to help keep you on track. It sounds like you’d really benefit from a proper ORT program OP, definitely worth looking into it.
 
I understand not wanting to replace one drug with another. Ultimately it's up to you. But the goal should be improving your life and getting it back on track. If you think you can do that without substitution therapy then go for it.

But between withdrawal then experiencing PAWS for god knows how long, it's easy to underestimate how hard it'll be.

It's your choice. Personally I know I'd have never made it. So I went with methadone. I'll deal with very slowly getting off it way down the track. If I'd tried to get off it faster I'd have just wound up using again.

Like I said. It's your choice and you know you a lot better than I do. I'm just cautious cause I've seen a lot of people underestimate just how hard staying clean will be in the long term, and winding up using again. If they'd compromised and gone with methadone or subuxone in the long term they might have had a better outcome.

For me I decided to deal with the psychological side first. Switch to methadone with no plan to get off it until I'm actually used to not shooting up every day and living like a junkie.

Just some food for thought. For me I'd never have gotten this far without methadone. I wish you luck man I really do.
 
JessFR said:
I understand not wanting to replace one drug with another. Ultimately it's up to you. But the goal should be improving your life and getting it back on track. If you think you can do that without substitution therapy then go for it.

But between withdrawal then experiencing PAWS for god knows how long, it's easy to underestimate how hard it'll be.

It's your choice. Personally I know I'd have never made it. So I went with methadone. I'll deal with very slowly getting off it way down the track. If I'd tried to get off it faster I'd have just wound up using again.

Like I said. It's your choice and you know you a lot better than I do. I'm just cautious cause I've seen a lot of people underestimate just how hard staying clean will be in the long term, and winding up using again. If they'd compromised and gone with methadone or subuxone in the long term they might have had a better outcome.

For me I decided to deal with the psychological side first. Switch to methadone with no plan to get off it until I'm actually used to not shooting up every day and living like a junkie.

Just some food for thought. For me I'd never have gotten this far without methadone. I wish you luck man I really do.
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Yea I'm really considering it because the subutex isn't really helping with the PAWS, amd I can take some H after my subutex and the next day still take my subutex just has me constantly thinking of taking H. Which kind of defeats the point of being on subutex. Does methadone help more with the PAWS?
 
It's no so much what you're on as much as that whatever you're doing as far as substituting for heroin is a match with your tolerance.

In my experience, people who were heavy users like me don't tend to do too well with subuxone. I think it might be because it's ceiling dosage may be below the physiological tolerance. But that's just an educated guess.

Conversely, people who get on methadone who didn't have that big a habit find methadone makes them sleepy and like a zombie all the time. But for heavier habits, methadone doesn't have a ceiling dosage like subuxone has.

Once I got on enough methadone, it all but took away my cravings for heroin. It's not entirely gone, but I think what's left is more mild psychological desire more than physical cravings. As for PAWS. It's a little hard to tell since I've stuff led with depression to some degree most of my life. But on the whole it's been pretty easy.

Methadone should pretty much eliminate PAWS so long as you're in enough of it. Subuxone probably should too, but if you had a big habit you might find it difficult with subuxone. I'm sure subuxone works great for some people but like I said, I think a lot of it depends on how much you were using. I was using a hell of a lot.

Anyhow, the point is, if you're stuffing from PAWS and craving H, you're not on a high enough dose. If you can go a higher dose of subuxone, that should help. If not, methadone would be my suggestion if substitution therapy is something you feel up for.

I had a serious problem. Methadone has helped me way more than I had hoped. I'd been in it for a couple years without success still using whenever I could and a big part of the reason was I wasn't on enough of it. Both cause it was difficult with the idiots who ran the clinic I went too, and, honestly, because I really wasn't ready to quit H. To be honest I'm still not sure I'm really ready. But I've given it a real try this time, and once I was on enough methadone, staying away from heroin has been a piece of cake compared to previous attempts.

That's not to say it's effortless, it's not. But the struggle is with my own mental state, I don't think it has anything to do with PAWS or my physical dependence. It's cause of the same emotional problems I had before I started using. It's just all those problems are still there. Still that's nevertheless a bit improvement.

So, in answer to your question, yes, when opioid substitution therapy is done right, you shouldn't suffer from PAWS. That's the biggest reason I went with it over any other option. It doesn't have to be methadone so much as your brain needs to be getting enough opioid activity as what it's losing by not having heroin anymore. Subuxone can do that for some peoples habits, for others I think sometimes it falls short. So you might be better off on methadone. Or, you might just need to increase your subuxone dose.
 
JessFR said:
It's no so much what you're on as much as that whatever you're doing as far as substituting for heroin is a match with your tolerance.

In my experience, people who were heavy users like me don't tend to do too well with subuxone. I think it might be because it's ceiling dosage may be below the physiological tolerance. But that's just an educated guess.

Conversely, people who get on methadone who didn't have that big a habit find methadone makes them sleepy and like a zombie all the time. But for heavier habits, methadone doesn't have a ceiling dosage like subuxone has.

Once I got on enough methadone, it all but took away my cravings for heroin. It's not entirely gone, but I think what's left is more mild psychological desire more than physical cravings. As for PAWS. It's a little hard to tell since I've stuff led with depression to some degree most of my life. But on the whole it's been pretty easy.

Methadone should pretty much eliminate PAWS so long as you're in enough of it. Subuxone probably should too, but if you had a big habit you might find it difficult with subuxone. I'm sure subuxone works great for some people but like I said, I think a lot of it depends on how much you were using. I was using a hell of a lot.

Anyhow, the point is, if you're stuffing from PAWS and craving H, you're not on a high enough dose. If you can go a higher dose of subuxone, that should help. If not, methadone would be my suggestion if substitution therapy is something you feel up for.

I had a serious problem. Methadone has helped me way more than I had hoped. I'd been in it for a couple years without success still using whenever I could and a big part of the reason was I wasn't on enough of it. Both cause it was difficult with the idiots who ran the clinic I went too, and, honestly, because I really wasn't ready to quit H. To be honest I'm still not sure I'm really ready. But I've given it a real try this time, and once I was on enough methadone, staying away from heroin has been a piece of cake compared to previous attempts.

That's not to say it's effortless, it's not. But the struggle is with my own mental state, I don't think it has anything to do with PAWS or my physical dependence. It's cause of the same emotional problems I had before I started using. It's just all those problems are still there. Still that's nevertheless a bit improvement.

So, in answer to your question, yes, when opioid substitution therapy is done right, you shouldn't suffer from PAWS. That's the biggest reason I went with it over any other option. It doesn't have to be methadone so much as your brain needs to be getting enough opioid activity as what it's losing by not having heroin anymore. Subuxone can do that for some peoples habits, for others I think sometimes it falls short. So you might be better off on methadone. Or, you might just need to increase your subuxone dose.
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Excellent post. Methadone has far exceeded my expectations as well. Suboxone helped with my physical dependence but it didn't do much for the mental aspect. In your situation I think methodone could be very helpful.
 
Agreed, thanks for your feedback Jess. You’re using methadone exactly like it is intended to be. No sense even worrying about getting off of it (I mean, there is something to be said for playing with the dose to see how low you can feel stabilized, and not just pushing it higher and higher to try and catch more of a buzz, but it doesn’t sound like you’re doing that) until you’re proper stabilized and well out of the lifestyle. Just going to the clinic to get medication and getting conditioned to take opioids in that structured environment as opposed to using whenever possible as part of the drug scene was definitely the most therapeutic aspect of the treatment for me.
 
I was able to kick with a one and half week bupe taper after an initial dose of benzos to wait out the stretch b4 taking my first sub. I did not find it necessary to dose on bupe daily after the first 2-3 as it stays on you for quite some time. towards the end i was taking doses every 30-60 hours roughly depending on WD onset (which is much smoother then when just coming off smack, or fent in my case) eventually the slight skin tingles, insomnia and RLS was more tollerable then the common cold and called it quits on the bupe, afterwards i used benzos for a day or two and mostly kept to pot, sporaticly dosing on benzos when i wanted to catch up on a fantastic night of sleep. Vitamins, fluids, excersize and fluids make a world of difference. Having kicked and relapsed into dependance many times myself, i was dumbfounded of how much of a difference several gallons of gatoraide, some tangerines and a chewy multivitamin can make in initial WD's and especially PAWS. You just gotta stop chasing the high, if you expect to use WD drugs to substitute for an opiate high, your setting yourself up for disaster as methadone and bupe are much harder to kick then the quicker acting opiate/oids. It gets better, trust me. You might not see it on a daily basis but keep in mind you most likely need to deal with all the parts of your life that you fucked up durring your habbit, sober now. Not fun but, it will definatly get better. Honestly, the worst part is when people forget your in recovery after the initial WD, it can start to seem hopeless at that point and quickly lead to relapse but always remember, your doing this for you and no one else. At least i hope thats the case.

Expect 4 months to a year to START feeling "normal" again, although no one ever forgets the high they left behind, that shit stays with you for life.

You took the first step, freedom from the ball and chain of physical dependence is worth the effort and although time may seem to stand still at times along with your progress, every day fighting the good fight is a win. Regardless of how it may seem at times.

The hardest part for me was finding joy in life again, anything in life. It comes back... slow as fuck, but it does.
Hang in there.


MUSIC!!!! Holy shit on a monkey tail.. i forgot to mention music. That thing that i forgot during my emotion numbing habit, once i was past day 3-4 of initial WD i flipped on my laptop and some headphones and it almost brought me to tears (or actually did). Music is the driving force in my life now, its like the replacement for me. Some people work out excessively, buy things with the money they save from not having a habit anymore or other things but, for me, it was music. I didnt care at all towards the end and after wds started to subside it was like the pinical of a psychedelic epiphany when that first song on my favorites playlist hit the sweet note.
Dont ever forget the power of music and art.
 
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Yea be suffered with depression for years and music was always great therepy, but when I was in the H I don't think I listened to music at all, apart from at the beginning of my use when a tiny bit if H was like heaven.

I "quit" H 7 days ago but for a few of them days I would have a hit a night. I realize I was building a tollerence on top of the bup.
3 days completely clean now.
Going to start tapering down soon.
My switch over was fucking horrible, I tried 2 weeks ago to switch to bup from my heroin and fent use, without vslium, managed 24 hours of withdrawals and took the subutex, made me go into PWD. Do tried last sat/Sunday wuth valium.
Ended up taking 150mg over 36 hours and toke the bupe, slowly over a few hours mg by mg and felt "normal".
It's Wierd I slept like a baby the first night, on H I didn't really sleep much.
My moods are all over the place, depression and back pain flooded back. But starting to feel "better".
A little weed and quite a few walks really help.
I really want to use tommmrow though it's going to be really hard to not use buy im going to try my hardest.
 
Thank you guys for all the support means a lot, I'm pretty isolated so don't really get much support.
 
Just an update, 6 days completely clean from.
H. Been on subutex for 8
9 ?days. Since last Monday. Down from 8mg to 0.5mg
In one week I'll be completely clean.
Cravings are still there, I find weed helps out a lot, it's my old friend lol.
Hope to keep this up.
Although I kind of do plan to use every once in a while, i hope noto but telling myself that in a couple of weeks I can. Have a hit instead of it's gone forever helps out a lot psychologically.
 
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