Quick suboxone question...

[my84firebird355]

Ok, here's the deal, I've been a opiate user for about 7 years now, been though suboxone treatments many times before. however I moved to Cleveland a few months ago and could only get subs from a doctor out there, so I started IV'ing it, and in large amounts 16mg shots once or twice a day. anyways i did that for about 2 months and then moved back to NYC where I have plenty of connections for heroin and other full agnostic opiates. so i stopped shooting/taking the subs and have been on full agnostic opiates since (about 2-3 months). now this is where things get interesting, I have tried to get back on subs like 4 or 5 times and its like a whole new ball game. I take a 8mg strip at the 24 hours mark and it does nothing as opposed to when it completely took me out of withdrawals. now im in wd's for about 36 hours before the subs make me feel normal. even more interesting is that i have to take like 4 8mg films a day to feel normal all day and get through the night. nothing changed as far as how much dope I was using its always been 5 - 10 bags a day, but one 8mg sub used to hold me all day and now it takes 4x the amount. can anyone explain this?

 

[titicaca2]

This happened to me. I used to suboxone to quick many, many times. My used increased every time I got back on dope, I'll never forgot the first time I planned a kick and I the subs never got me well. I took a whole 8mg (used to only need 1-2mg to feel well) and then gave up on it and got high. That created a vicious cycle of fear of withdrawal where now I won't even try. Every time I would take suboxone, including twice in a medical detox setting, it did nothing. I baffled doctors. My opiate withdrawal chart number was outrageous and the huge doses of bupe and subs didn't touch it. I made it through the second medical detox feeling as if I cold turkeyed. So within an hour of leaving rehab I got high and stayed high for a year. I cold turkey kicked in April of this year and the first time I got myself addicted again, months later, 2mg of suboxone took all the pain away. Wonder drug, i was reminded why I used to love it and why people love it. I'm addicted as hell again. I think it might be duration, not amount, that affects it. The anecdote I use is that my brain "caught on"... "this isn't a full agonist opiate... you're trying to trick me! I know better. This is a partial agonist-antagonist and not what I want. So you shall be sick."

Sorry for not really answering your question. But I think its about how long you've been hooked as well as how much you're doing.

 

[my84firebird355]

ok well here is an update, shortly after the original post I shot 16mg's of subs and actually felt a somewhat euphoric type feeling for about an hour and went to sleep, woke up a half hour ago feeling great, as opposed to feeling like I need to take another 16mg, which is how I felt taking it sublingualy. Is it possible that my over use of subs IV has caused my body to only let it work IV? should I go on methadone detox instead, because at this point I'd rather not use works and fuck up what veins I have left. I'm super scared of methadone but my only other choice after that is cold turkey.

to the moderator - does this topic belong in ADD instead of BDD?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Welcome to the hell of going back and forth too many times from dope to suboxone. The shit just stops working after a while if your habit gets big enough and you fuck with your brain by constantly switching back and forth. You need to ween down your heroin intake to the smallest level possible, wait 24 hours, and then start dosing at 2mg intervals every couple hours until you get some relief. But, it definitely becomes much much harder the more times you go back and forth...

And by the way, 16mg's of suboxone IV is an outrageous dose... so you've given yourself a massive tolerance to the shit.. that could also explain your troubles...

 

[my84firebird355]

You need to ween down your heroin intake to the smallest level possible, wait 24 hours, and then start dosing at 2mg intervals every couple hours until you get some relief.

And by the way, 16mg's of suboxone IV is an outrageous dose... so you've given yourself a massive tolerance to the shit.. that could also explain your troubles...

well I'm already on subs so no point in going back to dope, but it now becomes a question of staying on a high dose of subs or going to methadone. I know 16mg Iv is outrageous, and I'd never recommend anyone try that high of a dose, but I got there through gradual increase because of tolerance. What I don't understand is why subs are only working for me IV? I mean 2-3 months of just being on dope should have reduced that tolerance at least to the point where taking it sublingualy should have worked a lot better then it has been.

 

[laCster]

you did this to yourself, 16mg IV is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Dude, you don't realize how much 16mg's of bupe IV is... I mean, it's a crazy amount of bupe.. I'm not even sure, with the ceiling effect of suboxone, that there even is a sublingual dose that would compare to 16mg's IV..

 

[my84firebird355]

as I said in my op I know I'm taking it in large amounts, I'm a fucking drug addict guys everything I do, I do it to the extreme and then some. Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm doing, or that I don't realize how much I'm doing. My question is simple and it seemed to be answered, now I have a new question stay on high dose bupe or go to methadone? please don't ridicule me for how much I was taking, I'm well aware of that already.

 

[laCster]

Do you realize why though? I'm a drug addict too, and I take around 1mg a sub a day, blaming it on your addiction is silly, I don't recommend either methadone or sub, I reccommend you stop using drugs if you can't handle yourself responsibly with suboxone then there is little hope methadone or subs will help

Just keep using heroin and oxy or whatever, you obviously aren't ready to stop using and you will only fuck yourself more if you get on 'done or subs

 

[my84firebird355]

dude are you serious? lol I'm not ready to stop using? keep using heroin and oxy? wtf is wrong with you? handle myself responsibly? are you retarded? what kind of active drug addict "handles themselves responsibly" lmao? when I went from iv'ing 2mg sub to 16mg sub its because of tolerance and a want to get high with nothing else available. that is called addiction, when the drug takes over and makes you do shit you normally wouldn't. now you may be confusing what I am saying, i do not want to shoot up subs, I did it last night to see if there was a difference of how it affected me because the sublingual roa wasn't working. there was a difference and it showed me that my past subs IV use has greatly affected normal sublingual roa and now I am informing everyone here not to do what I did cause it fucks everything up when your trying to get clean, which in essence is harm reduction. You on the other hand are inducing harm by telling me to stay on H.. bro you need to get off your "i'm a responsible addict" pedestal asap. I can tell you first hand there is no such thing. a responsible addict i n recovery, yes that I can see, but when the intentions are to get high, responsibility flys straight out the window dude.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I am a serious detractor of long term "maintenance" on methadone or bupe... yeah it'll keep you off your DOC which is all well and good, but then you have to kick that shit and it's 10x harder than the doctors and everyone claimed it was.. and much harder then kicking straight heroin. Many people relapse back to their doc because they try to get off bupe or done after being on it for a year or more and the withdrawals are so brutal, they say fuck it. Your best be OP, is to stay on the suboxone, and ween down. 1 month taper. Get down to as small a dose as possible, sublingual of course not IV. Then get the fuck off.

 

[my84firebird355]

mr.scagnattie - in terms of lonf term treatment and maintenance I couldn't agree with you more. Its my sole objective to get off either bupe or done as fast as possible but this brings a concern of mine up that you already mentioned, 16mg IV has no counter part dose sublingually because of the ceiling effect. should I just take 16mg sublingually and suffer till my tolerance accepts that amount to hold me over then proceed to rapid detox? or do I go on methadone for a week on a rapid detox then switch back to subs for a rapid detox with those. either way I've come to accept that there's no easy road out of this and suffering will have to be gone through, Im just trying to figure out the best way, you know?

 

[laCster]

Nah you aren't ready. It's people like you that fuck up subs and done for the rest of us. Getting high on subs, I'm sorry but are u serious? Just because you are an addict doesn't mean you have to succumb to it
You are weak and scape goating and rationalizing abusing subs because you are an addict. It doesn't work like that .

You are mad because I'm right, it shows in your post

Good luck, because god knows you need it

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

mr.scagnattie - in terms of lonf term treatment and maintenance I couldn't agree with you more. Its my sole objective to get off either bupe or done as fast as possible but this brings a concern of mine up that you already mentioned, 16mg IV has no counter part dose sublingually because of the ceiling effect. should I just take 16mg sublingually and suffer till my tolerance accepts that amount to hold me over then proceed to rapid detox? or do I go on methadone for a week on a rapid detox then switch back to subs for a rapid detox with those. either way I've come to accept that there's no easy road out of this and suffering will have to be gone through, Im just trying to figure out the best way, you know?

Okay, let's figure this out, because I really do want to help you. Right now, if you were to take 24mg's of suboxone sublingually? Or 32mg's, which is the ceiling.. what would happen? Have you tried it? Do you feel any relief at all? Because depending on your answer, it's going to affect my recommendation. If 32mg's of sublingual suboxone doesn't get you where you want to be as far as out of psychical withdrawal, or at least most of it, than you're either going to have to suffer through a couple days of hell while your body gets accustomed to it and your tolerance drops or switch to methadone and be on a pretty high dose.

 

[hangyourhead]

You're probably feeling withdrawals because bupe is a partial agonist and doesn't help a whole lot with pain such as the full agonist opiates, like heroin, you were using.

I had a heroin habit and I was also shooting my bupe at one point. IV bupe will raise your tolerance for the drug due to the 100% BA as opposed to 30% orally. I agree with everyone else, 16mg is a ridiculously wasteful and unnecessary amount of bupe to IV. It doesn't get you any "higher" or help with withdrawals more than using 8mg and below would... I don't know how you get an actual high off bupe if you were using dope? Most folks get the most out of using <2mg of bupe and expirience more full-agonistesque effects most likely due to getting more out of the full-agonist metabolite, norbuprenorphine.

 

[my84firebird355]

Okay, let's figure this out, because I really do want to help you. Right now, if you were to take 24mg's of suboxone sublingually? Or 32mg's, which is the ceiling.. what would happen?

Before last night when I changed the ROA to IV, I was taking it sublingually, and to put it as simply as I can, If I took one 8mg strip it would last about 2-3 hours of feeling decent, as in no major wd symptoms, but my back and legs would hurt like when your detoxing along with depression) SO, that being said I was already past my ceiling in terms of tolerance when I got on subs. However, today would be the fifth day I've been off dope and 4th on subs. Should I maybe single dose instead of quad split dose? or do you think it's honestly better to go for done and do a rapid blind detox?

 

[Supeudol]

Ok, here's the deal, I've been a opiate user for about 7 years now, been though suboxone treatments many times before. however I moved to Cleveland a few months ago and could only get subs from a doctor out there, so I started IV'ing it, and in large amounts 16mg shots once or twice a day. anyways i did that for about 2 months and then moved back to NYC where I have plenty of connections for heroin and other full agnostic opiates. so i stopped shooting/taking the subs and have been on full agnostic opiates since (about 2-3 months). now this is where things get interesting, I have tried to get back on subs like 4 or 5 times and its like a whole new ball game. I take a 8mg strip at the 24 hours mark and it does nothing as opposed to when it completely took me out of withdrawals. now im in wd's for about 36 hours before the subs make me feel normal. even more interesting is that i have to take like 4 8mg films a day to feel normal all day and get through the night. nothing changed as far as how much dope I was using its always been 5 - 10 bags a day, but one 8mg sub used to hold me all day and now it takes 4x the amount. can anyone explain this?

I know exactly what you mean with going back and fourth with the subs. And when I do shit as well, I do opiates to the fucking extreme and had a huge HydromorphContin Habit the fourth time I relapsed before being able to find a Sub doctor again. I am on 16mg/day of Suboxone and it barely even holds me. I was almost considering Methadone, but I don't really want to go down that road. But I am hoping for something like Suboxone to be able to save my life, so I can go back to school, get a part time job and start making some real money again for fuck sake. I always feel like I need more Suboxone too. The Subs are not holding me as well as they did in 2009, thats DAMN for sure.. Buprenorphine is a really weird, kind of fucked up opioid in a way. I mean, its good shit, but its also bad shit in another way. On Methadone though, I was never able to get high on other opiates because my Methadone dose was WAY WAY too high.. (190mg's/day of Methadone for 2 years). A 600mg/day Oxycodone habit, plus a Lyrica/Benzodiazepine habit on top of that.

So I know how you feel bro, except I don't IV, and never have. I always just use Intranasal mainly, or sublingual for Suboxone, oral for Oxycodone, and occasionally IM use of maybe hydromorphone. But never have IV'd. I hear SC Hydromorphone is supposed to be close to the B/A of IV. But not entirely sure on that one.

Anyways I was insufflating enourmous doses of Hydromorphone per day, easily over 100mg/day. For years, as well as severe Oxycodone in the past, and the MMT I was on in the past.
My tolerance is sky fucking high, and I hate it. Pregabalin also potentiates benzo's and opiates quite well, so that could add to the B/A as well I'm sure if you timed the dosing right. I was also potentiating with Diphenhydramine on top of Lyrica. As I have been prescribed Lyrica for years, but my Sub doctor wants me off Lyrica, so he keeps lowering my dosage. I told him I need Lyrica during my Benzo taper and I'm having enough problems with the Suboxone already.

I tell you as you already know, its hell on earth once you fuck with serious opioids like fentanyl, hydromorphone, methadone, and subs.
I wish you well my friend.

BTW - I love your nickname. Firebirds are my favourite car, always have been, always will be. Even though they stopped making them in 2002. (THAT SUCKS - They bring back the Camaro, but not the Firebird.)

 

[my84firebird355]

You're probably feeling withdrawals because bupe is a partial agonist and doesn't help a whole lot with pain such as the full agonist opiates, like heroin, you were using.

I had a heroin habit and I was also shooting my bupe at one point. IV bupe will raise your tolerance for the drug due to the 100% BA as opposed to 30% orally. I agree with everyone else, 16mg is a ridiculously wasteful and unnecessary amount of bupe to IV. It doesn't get you any "higher" or help with withdrawals more than using 8mg and below would... I don't know how you get an actual high off bupe if you were using dope? Most folks get the most out of using <2mg of bupe and expirience more full-agonistesque effects most likely due to getting more out of the full-agonist metabolite, norbuprenorphine.

How were you iv'ing dope and bupe at the same time and not going into precipitated wd's????? I already know about the BA and already understand that that's why its not working anywhere near how it used to work sublingually, and it does get you higher, there is no ceiling effect when you IV bupe, and when I was taking it in Ohio, I wasn't doing dope before then I was actually clean and relapsed on subs and i started with 2mg's but it stopped working and went to 4 then 8 then 12 then 16mgs, then i moved back and got back on dope.

 

[my84firebird355]

I know exactly what you mean with going back and fourth with the subs. And when I do shit as well, I do opiates to the fucking extreme and had a huge HydromorphContin Habit the fourth time I relapsed before being able to find a Sub doctor again. I am on 16mg/day of Suboxone and it barely even holds me. I was almost considering Methadone, but I don't really want to go down that road. But I am hoping for something like Suboxone to be able to save my life, so I can go back to school, get a part time job and start making some real money again for fuck sake. I always feel like I need more Suboxone too. The Subs are not holding me as well as they did in 2009, thats DAMN for sure.. Buprenorphine is a really weird, kind of fucked up opioid in a way. I mean, its good shit, but its also bad shit in another way. On Methadone though, I was never able to get high on other opiates because my Methadone dose was WAY WAY too high.. (190mg's/day of Methadone for 2 years). A 600mg/day Oxycodone habit, plus a Lyrica/Benzodiazepine habit on top of that.

So I know how you feel bro, except I don't IV, and never have. I always just use Intranasal mainly, or sublingual for Suboxone, oral for Oxycodone, and occasionally IM use of maybe hydromorphone. But never have IV'd. I hear SC Hydromorphone is supposed to be close to the B/A of IV. But not entirely sure on that one.

Anyways I was insufflating enourmous doses of Hydromorphone per day, easily over 100mg/day. For years, as well as severe Oxycodone in the past, and the MMT I was on in the past.
My tolerance is sky fucking high, and I hate it. Pregabalin also potentiates benzo's and opiates quite well, so that could add to the B/A as well I'm sure if you timed the dosing right. I was also potentiating with Diphenhydramine on top of Lyrica. As I have been prescribed Lyrica for years, but my Sub doctor wants me off Lyrica, so he keeps lowering my dosage. I told him I need Lyrica during my Benzo taper and I'm having enough problems with the Suboxone already.

I tell you as you already know, its hell on earth once you fuck with serious opioids like fentanyl, hydromorphone, methadone, and subs.
I wish you well my friend.

BTW - I love your nickname. Firebirds are my favourite car, always have been, always will be. Even though they stopped making them in 2002. (THAT SUCKS - They bring back the Camaro, but not the Firebird.)

wow, I honestly thought I was the only one experiencing this, thank you for your input man, from what I'm reading it sounds like your just tuffing it out, correct? Diphenhydramine?!?! I thought I was the only one who did that too lol! Thanks for the well wishes and I wish you well just the same, this game sucks when you play it like we play it. And yeah I love firebirds, my first car was a 83 firebird then I had the 84 then I got a 86 camaro then I got 89 trans am gta with the LS6 package, 1 of 9000 built and I got into a police chase with it and wrecked it =( I got the firebird symbol tatt'd on my left fore arm too. whats your fav gen.?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Before last night when I changed the ROA to IV, I was taking it sublingually, and to put it as simply as I can, If I took one 8mg strip it would last about 2-3 hours of feeling decent, as in no major wd symptoms, but my back and legs would hurt like when your detoxing along with depression) SO, that being said I was already past my ceiling in terms of tolerance when I got on subs. However, today would be the fifth day I've been off dope and 4th on subs. Should I maybe single dose instead of quad split dose? or do you think it's honestly better to go for done and do a rapid blind detox?

I'd just stay on the suboxone.. You're going to have to wait a long time for all that bupe to get out of your system, which means, days of being sick.. before the methadone would even work on you because of the blocking. What you need to do is find a sublingual dose that takes away the majority of your withdrawal symptoms, if you have to dose twice a day.. that's fine. Then, once you are stabilized on that dose, start weening down by small amounts until you're down to a manageable dosage to hop off on.