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Quick Q on taking suboxone after opiates (fentanyl)

Kronos

Kronos

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
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Yeah i know, dont do it. But my situation is that i lapsed a bit yesterday, had some coke and fentanyl, whiuch i polished off the fent around 10pm last night. I've done this maybe 2 or 3 times in the last 6 months, and every time i've woke up feeling a bit sicky, so have taken my meds absolutely fine (leaving a minimum or 12hrs after my last dose.

Only this time when i woke up i feel fine, pretty good actually considering i was smashing coke yesterday

So yeah, the question is would i be okay to take my suboxone now? Or should i wait until i really am sick? Once i took it after around 8 hours and it put me into very minor precipitated wds which lasted a hour or 2, but other than that, had no problem
 
i would wait until you start feeling bad, then take the bupe a little at a time, like 0.5mg or so. When i switched from AH7921 to bupe the 'switchover' was very quick in that the bupe started to take effect very quickly after knocking the AH off the receptors, so i only felt rough for about half an hour. Obviously with fent being much stronger and iu dont know how much you use it mught not be quite that easy for you !

Are you on bupe maintenance ?
 
I've been on sub maintenance for going on 4 years now. And I've learned one thing man n that's wait until u can't stand it anymore before u take ur first dose of suboxone after a relapse. As was previously stated, you gotta let the subs knock the opiate of choice off of ur receptors, and if you take it too soon, which u obviously already know, it's going to HURT. For me it's like packing 3 days of DT's into 45 minutes of agony lol. Last time it happened to me I was dumb enough to slam my first dose of bupe rather than just sublingual it.. U can feel the change immediately, going from feeling a little shitty to having to jump the fuck outta ur chair n do jumping jacks while taking a scolding hot shower lol. Anyways, like I was saying..

If u don't feel too shitty right now then there's no real reason u should be feeling the itch to take bupe right now. And if u DO have that goin on, fight it bro. Safe time frame IMO from last time opiates were used to first time subs are taken, is right around 14 hrs, maybe 16 hrs. But that's with Smack not fentanyl. Not 100% on how long fent lasts in a persons body, what form of fentanyl ur doing (patches, lollipops, etc), and what milligram. But yeah, if ur doubting urself in ur head as to wether or not u should take it yet, then the answer should be unequivocally NO. Save urself the hurt brotha :)
 
Fent was pure powder, IV so half life is very short. Cheers for the advice bud, aye it might not put me into wds but why risk it? Also another question i've been wondering, when i've gone into precip wds (v minor) from bupe, when i first went on it id sdone geat 12 hrs before for example, i felt like death. jumped into a taxi dripping sweat, managed to get in and collapsed on a sofa, within 2 hoursi was feeling load load better, wherras precipitated withdrawal from naltrexone was hell on earth, as many will tell you even on this board, i spent 3 days almost dehydrated to death in a hospital bed cause i was sweating, puking and shitting so bad

So my question was is the precip from bupe always only a few hours, or can it be as bad as naltrexone. And if anyone knows whats the physiological and Pharmacological reason? Or was i just lucky and most of the drug had left my system already with the bupe rattles
 
mydrugbuddy said:
thats great advice above, wait until you can bare it no more. If you can bare it dont take the subs at all ! Im sorry i dont know your exact circumstances.
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MDB i'm on a script, 12mg a day, i just had a lapse. 3rd opiate related one and 4th or 5th involving needles (in the last 7 months). I know its not ideal but compared to using all day everyday, regular polydrug use and ending up in hospital multiple times, i'd say its a step forward :) Especially as i'm only 16, got plenty of time to sort myself out

How're you doing with the bupe detox? You should be nearly off em by now if you stuck to the schedule last time we spoke?
 
im over the worst of the physical dependency, those chains are broken i think, but im physically run down and not surprsingly my mood has dropped to say the least, i was being bouyed up by bupe and using it as anti depressant, ive been invited out tonight and i dont want to turn up being a miserable grumpy bastard so im having a day back on the bupe today. I know this is extremely foolish of me, and im making things harder for myself in the long run, i must be a glutton for punishment or something. I wont be taking any more until chritmas, again for the same reasons, im too down otherwise, but then after that im not gonna touch it for months.

Are you really only 16 ? 8o;) I just saw another of your posts saying you were much older really.

ive never had naltrexone so dunno, but that just knocks all opis clean off the recptors, bupe does that too, but then its own opi agonist effect kick in within about half an hour anyway nad clings to your receptors more strongly than preactically anything else. Mouthwash and rinse first for quicker and better sublingual absorption.
 
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mydrugbuddy said:
im over the worst of the physical dependency, those chains are broken i think, but not surprsingly my mood has dropped to say the least, i was being bouyed up by bupe and using it as anti depressant, ive been invited out tonight and i dont want to turn up being a miserable grumpy bastard so im having a day back on the bupe today. I know this is extremely foolish of me, and im making things harder for myself in the long run, i must be a glutton for punishment or something. I wont be taking any more until chritmas, again for the same reasons, im too down otherwise, but then after that im not gonna touch it for months.

Are you really only 16 ? 8o;) I just saw another of your posts saying you were much older really.

ive never had naltrexone so dunno, but that just knocks all opis clean off the recptors, bupe does that too, but then its own opi agonist effect kick in within about half an hour anyway and clings to your receptors more strongly than preactically anything else. Mouthwash and rinse first for quicker and better absorption.
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I normally just sniff em, works twice as well as under tongue.

Great job breaking the physical bit, that's a huge step forward :). Though i've read a few of your posts over the last few days saying you'd lapsed more than once. If you're serious about coming off and staying off bupe, and breaking the association between opiates and enjoyment (which if fucking hard, believe me i know, but you move past it), you considered naltrexone? Removing the option of relapse. It can be a scary thought, but is one to consider if you really want to move on from it.

RE the needing the bupe not to be a miserable sod, what a crock o shite. Trust me, when you're thrown into a situation where bupe or other opiates aint available it took me a month or 2 but i learnt to socialize again properly. Yeah i still sometimes get anxious even when meeting friends that i've known for years, but choke it down and go anyways, and you'l soon forget all about it. I even spent qutie a few times round at dinner for mates staring at the wall in a state of near panic barely uttering a word whilst having dinner with friends when i first came off benzos, but i eventually got past that, re-learnt the basics & am in a much better place than i thought possible.

The point i was trying to make, is if you really want to quit the psychological addiction to the drug, you have to stop believing that the drug makes you confident and sociable, all the drug does is take away the confidence and sociability you once had unless you're on the drug, and it takes a while to break that habit, time and effort, but it is possible.

Guess it all depends on what you want, apologies if i'm pontificating at you, us 16 year olds have an annoying habit of thinking we know everything ;)
 
very wise words for a 16 year old !

I know you're right, I'm gonna have to stop relying on drugs to socialise. Too late for today though as its allready down the hatch, but yeah its something im gonna have to work through the hard way. I know i cant rely on, and dont want to, need all these crutches for ever.
 
Yeah, the forced WD from subs only lasts 45 mins - over an hour. Never more than that. It won't last for days on end, it packs it all into one violently sick punch, and thankfully it's over quick. For those of us who are gluttons for pain, I've seen people wake up the next morning just hours after they're last slam, and take a sub, just to bring the WD on faster and get it over with. I could never do that personally, but some people just wanna get it
Over with n hate having to drag the shit out until they can feel normal again. I've never taken naltrexone so I wouldn't know just how bad it can get but from the sounds of it it's something id rather do without...
 
Naltrexone is a very handy tool if you can get into the habit of taking them daily or every two..

It not only blocks opis but also does alot for cravings, thats not just with opiates either, they're used for treatment of recovering alcoholics to. The last I checked/heard they didnt even have an explanation for this phenomenon, maybe they've sussed it now, I dunno..

Anyways, if you're serious about kicking the opis you should definitely consider them, I have never had any adverse effects from them what so ever. Although you do have to have regular liver function tests, so they cant be completely benign.

Im currently taking them again after my recent lapse just to keep me in check. Good luck anyway MDB :)
 
Cheers SM. I dont know what is happening but i dont seem to have come down from my 2 day bupe run a couple of days ago, or i dont seem to have been thrown into w/d yet. I know the half life is long but this is crazy. If i am going to be hit by w/ds id rather get them over and done with sooner rather than later.

Fuck knows bupe has some extremely strange modes of action, someone told me about posts on the opiphile forum that stated that taking a larger dose on the first day of your next reduction or the day you quit can 'see you good' for about 4 days, by which time you are halfway there to getting over the worst of the physical adjustment. It does seem counter-intuitive but 3 out of 4 times ive done that it has worked. I presume the key thing is to not raise your tolerance again, and one off larger doses every 'now and then' seem to not do this.

I think at the moment Im more or less over craving the stuff, and just use it on relatively rare planned occasions now.
 
Forgot about this thread, took my subs with no bad effects. Damn good to know that the pw it only lasts an hour or so, i thought it was naltrexone style torture!
 
ive slipped again. The fuckin paws is too much for me, apparently im not even in paws yet as it can take a month to hit that - and paws can last 6 months to 2 decades. That must be worst case scenario. Fuckin hell id rather be a lifelong addicted than have to live with only 15 % of my energy and feel so lethargic and lacking initiative for 20 years. In fact id rather be dead, if i knew i would feel like that for 20 years. I dont think tht has to be the case, you can do things to help yourself. I dont really want to get back on bupe full time after doing all the hard work to get off it. But its like ive got off it, and all i want to do is just start the whole cycle all over again because life is so shit without it.

Maybe kratom can help me through the worst of the winter, im gonna try it. I really thinki this is an awful time of year to stop, as exercise is meant to be one of the best ways to start recovering. Who the fuck wants to exercise in this weather though. Also im gonna try stopping smoking, so's ill have a better appetite, and pay more attention and take more care of my diet, something else that is said to be very important.

The relapse rate of bupe is eant to be very high, all the drugs detoxes just concentrate on getting you throgh the most acute phase of the w/ds, thats just a week or so of feeling rough. Next comes the listlessness and it wouldnt be long for depression to set in, if you have to endure months of that. Kratom it is, not usre what strein to get red vein sumatra or red vein borneo i cant remember what was meant to be best. It says it somehwre in the odt thread. I'll find it tomoz. Night folks.
 
I thought you binned the rest of your subs toward the end of your taper?

mydrugbuddy said:
Fuckin hell id rather be a lifelong addicted than have to live with only 15 % of my energy and feel so lethargic and lacking initiative for 20 years. In fact id rather be dead, if i knew i would feel like that for 20 years. I dont think tht has to be the case, you can do things to help yourself. I dont really want to get back on bupe full time after doing all the hard work to get off it. But its like ive got off it, and all i want to do is just start the whole cycle all over again because life is so shit without it.
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You're barely out of your taper. In fact, with these extra doses you've insisted on taking, I'd be surprised if you went more than a handful of days without any buprenorphine in your system whatsoever. You're not really giving recovery a fighting chance.

mydrugbuddy said:
The relapse rate of bupe is eant to be very high, all the drugs detoxes just concentrate on getting you throgh the most acute phase of the w/ds, thats just a week or so of feeling rough. Next comes the listlessness and it wouldnt be long for depression to set in, if you have to endure months of that. Kratom it is, not usre what strein to get red vein sumatra or red vein borneo i cant remember what was meant to be best. It says it somehwre in the odt thread. I'll find it tomoz. Night folks.
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Hold on. Now you're talking about kratom?

Originally the sub detox was meant to be an ultra-rapid one, wasn't it? You've actually ended up in a far worse place with the subs than you would've been without them, and now you're looking for another 'easy' way out? One which in all likelihood is going to lead to yet another addiction?

This thread is way off topic now and has served its purpose anyway, so apologies to the mods, and sorry if my words seem a bit strong, but you really need to stop this nonsense.

Don't use the threat of PAWS as an excuse to backtrack. You've hardly finished tapering as it is.
 
I still stand by my suggestion of a detox clinic, then naltrexone. Thatd be the best chance you could give yourself imo

Bad news mdb, a few days off bupe and you'll still be feeling like shit. but it passes in a few weeks, if you stop replacing a with b, b with c.
 
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting MDB to take naltrexone to push the bupe out of his system, but as a way to opiate abstinence as we all know the smallest of issues in life can set us off on a binge which tends to lead to another habit. God knows how many times ive been in and out of habits, must be a sucker for punishment....!

@MDB- all the best with it mate, unfortunately there is no easy way out of it which im sure you're aware. The PAWS you've read about are surely the worst case scenario, ive never experienced anything longer than a month.
 
Yeah Sam, it was all meant to be done and dusted on a managed supervised taper in 4 weeks. They turned me away. I got my own bupe and enjoyed it more than i was supposed to, it made/makes me feel great. Its the only thing that works as an anti depressant for me. You know the rest. 8 months later ive done all the hard work, but i just want to start the cycle off all over again. I know it must sound pathetic but i find the PAWS (if thats what it is) fucking hard to deal with. Too hard to deal with day in day out for weeks on end.

Im figuring that kratom is the lesser of 2 evils. I cant bare being couch locked with 85 % of my energy and initiative taken away from me. Ive got a job interview lined up for tomorrow so theres no way im going back into w/d tomorrow. I may do so on the day after, if i get offered the job i start on jan the 6th which would be quite good timing. If im still 85 % brain dead by then though im not going to turn down a job and I'll see if kratom can help.

I understand that you are frustrated and annoyed by the mess i am making of this, if i found it easy i wouldnt be making such a mess of it, do you know what i mean ? If you had the choice between being miserable as fuck or the abilty to enjoy life which would you choose. For tax reasons alone it makes sense for me to take this job until April at least, i can be doing a kratom maintenance or taper in the meantime.
 
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