Questions regarding Ketamine/MXE

[Jbudman]

Hello all!

I have recently gotten my hands on some MXE. Throughout my years of drug use, Ketamine was always a drug that I had a lot of interest in but could never get a hold of. After experimenting with LSD, Mushrooms, MDMA, MDA, and various other psychedelic drugs I finally got my hands on some ketamine! I had always loved the idea of ketamine because it seemed to be the perfect drug for me: Doesn't last too long, thought provoking, somewhat psychedelic, and very mellow. After getting to try it, it was nothing like I expected... I have done ketamine a handful of times, and every time the effects were the same for me: Not very trippy, nitrous-like numbness, alcohol-like loss of coordination, and if I did too much (60mg I think was too much) extreme nausea, unsuccessful vomiting, and one time EXTREME sweating. I never noticed any mental effects other than feeling very dumbed down/burnt out in doses lower than 50mg. I did doses above 50mg 2 times, both times I ended up puking. The first time I could barely walk, and I spent the majority of my trip in the bathroom pretty nauseous. Puking on the stuff is impossible for me, nothing comes up no matter how hard my body tries to make me puke. It's like the muscle that forces vomit up is disabled or something lol. The second time I did a dose over 50mg, I felt my first hint of some kind of euphoria for about 5 minutes, but shortly after I became extremely nauseous. I ran to the bathroom and proceeded to dry heave for almost 2 hours, and I literally was sitting in a pool of my own sweat. I've heard that ketamine doesn't get trippy until you get into the higher doses, but I can't seem to get anywhere near the correct dosage without being overcome with nausea. I was extremely disappointed after realizing that ketamine didn't have much to offer for me.

Recently, a friend of mine gave me some MXE to try out, and to my surprise it is everything I wanted ketamine to be like! A dose of 20mg will have me floating in a very happy place, with mild visual distortions, and a VERY interesting/somewhat confusing headspace. Also, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that MXE worked WONDERS for my social anxiety while under the influence. Until this point in my life, nothing has really helped me with my social anxiety other than benzos, but with MXE I can be in a very "trippy" headspace and have absolutely no anxiety regarding the people I am around which is very rare for me. I normally am a very quiet person, I don't speak much and I don't like hanging with people I don't know really well. This completely disappears for me when I take MXE. Today I did about 30mg, I had an AMAZING time in a really weird dreamlike state where my thoughts were very random, my body was extremely warm and fuzzy feeling, and I just felt very content with everything. The only negative thing I could think of was that it got a bit confusing at times, but it was never unmanageable, and made for a VERY interesting experience. When I would stand up I would feel a little dizzy at first, but it never evolved into nausea for me.

My question is this:
For those of you who have done both drugs, how similar do you find them?
Until I tried MXE, I believed that it would be identical to K, but instead it turned out to be everything I wanted K to be. Could it just be that my body doesn't react well with ketamine, and I get more of the negative side effects rather than positives? Or is it common for people to get extremely sick on K but not on MXE? Also, does ketamine have the same effect as MXE on social anxiety? If it does, I never noticed it, but most of my k experiences have been low dose, or high dose and miserable..

Feel free to leave me links to other threads, I've already done some browsing!
Also, if you have any tips on battling K sickness please share! "

 

[psy997]

First, SWIM isn't allowed here.

Second, it doesn't sound like you had real or pure Ketamine. I've never read reports of non-combatable nausea.

 

[Jbudman]

I'm positive that what I speak of was real Ketamine, and I'm positive that it's not uncommon for some people to become nauseous on Ketamine.

USEFUL info would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Mysterie]

What are Ketamine’s effects?

Dose, how the drug is taken, set and setting have an influence on the experience. 'Set' refers to the personality, past experiences, mood, motivations, intelligence, imagination, attitudes, what is going on in his or her life and the expectations of the person. Expectations are affected by what people hear and read about the drug. 'Setting' refers to the conditions of use, including the physical, social and emotional environment and the other people present. Empathy with the person giving the drug is a very important factor, even with an anaesthetic.

Ketamine effects take two different forms: physical and mental. Ketamine effects may feel devastating but at the same time they are also seductive. Some enjoy the drug for the same reasons that it is affecting them negatively. Of all the ketamine effects the most sought after is this feeling of disassociation.

The more mild ketamine effects are the heart rate increases along with a slight euphoric feeling. The physical ketamine effects are mild compared to the mental ketamine effects. PCP, ketamine, and alcohol all belong to a class of drugs that prevent brain cells from picking up glutamate, a chemical messenger that cells use to communicate with each other.

Perhaps the most important property of ketamine is that, despite the induction of both anesthesia and dissociation, the cough and gag reflexes *USUALLY* are not affected. This means that, contrary to most other agents which will produce anesthesia and/or unconsciousness, it is very unlikely that a person using ketamine will aspirate their own saliva and other excretions.

Before reaching the first line of the trip, fragmentation will occur- the world will begin to spin, but it won't be dizzying. Music will become fragmented. Chaos will ensue. At some point, you will find yourself complete removed from your surroundings and your body. Descriptions of the post-line experience vary substantially, but most include talk of alternate planes of existence, oneness, past and future revelations, and strange fabrics of all sorts. It will be very difficult to communicate at this point, and you probably will not be able to see or hear others in the room. Some revelations will be extremely heavy and some scary, but that fear does not seem to come back with you and is therefore difficult to describe as scary. You will probably find yourself coming back across the line again visibly, attempting to put an object in focus or define it. It is at this point that you will likely want to get in touch with your co-trippers. This is the "Wow" period. It is very important here that you do not try to move for awhile. The trip will continue mildly for an
hour or so after this, with more conventional focuses

You'll start to notice the ketamine kicking in when you start to feel floaty; in a "dream-like" state. Sounds and apperance begin to distort. Eventually you will notice that you'd much rather lay down when things start to spiral and objects begin to expand their length and width. At this point the experience gets exciting (or scary). When you begin to feel yourself lift away from your body and rise up above everything the K-Hole is about to begin. From this point on it is very difficult to describe the experience, but you will be full of fear but at the same time simply amazed. I have experienced "death" a few times on ketamine...I remember once playing chess with God (the pieces were homes) as he explained what my soul will experience now that I was dead. I have also been through some very frightening experiences, realizing that there is no heaven or hell, no after life, that in fact we are all just numbered vessels that float aimlessly in space...and since I thoght that I was really dead, that scares the shit outta me!

There is a place known as "Lego-land" that many people on ketamine experience when you reach a certain dose. This is insanity at its finest, as the world looks like the original Super Mario Bros. Nintendo game and objects are built of colorful Lego pieces. If there is somebody with you they simply become a cartoon. This is what I look for when I use ketamine because I no longer notice the sickness when I stand up (because you can't feel yourself...you're completly numb) and I can do some hardcore dancing as my legs are moved to where the Lego pieces light up.

There is such a wide range of experiences while in a K-Hole, somebody else's experience may be WAY off from mine which is the cool thing about ketamine. But you must beware of ketamine addiction, it is horrible. You get seduced by the negative aspects of ketamine and start to think backwards. You will notice that K addicts are very ego-centric and "lost in another world", your mind is cloudy and begin to think very cynical. I think the near death experience and what you learn from it plays a part in that. I haven't used in months just cause it starts to control you in an evil way. As I type this I think of all the destructive effects of ketamine and the more I think of them, the more I want to use, and that is just how it is....

the info in this post doesnt really correspond with your experiences with your K, how do you know what you got is K and not some RC

of course you could have had an individual adverse reaction to K but i would have thought MXE is close enough to K for it to affect you strangely as well?

there is a definitely a group of people who prefer MXE to K

 

[psy997]

I'm positive that what I speak of was real Ketamine, and I'm positive that it's not uncommon for some people to become nauseous on Ketamine.

USEFUL info would be appreciated, thanks.

Did I not let you know SWIM isn't allowed?

There's no reason to be hostile because I'm letting you know your reaction to Ketamine sounds nothing like what Ketamine should do. How do you know for a fact it was real K? Everywhere here in America you can buy NBOMe sold as LSD and be guaranteed, even by your daily guy for the past year who invites you over to party and chill even if you aren't buying (as happened to me), it's real LSD.

If you didn't order it yourself, get it out of a vial yourself, or know the person who did any of these things (saw it in person, labeled as K), how you KNOW it was K?

 

[Jbudman]

the info in this post doesnt really correspond with your experiences with your K, how do you know what you got is K and not some RC

of course you could have had an individual adverse reaction to K but i would have thought MXE is close enough to K for it to affect you strangely as well?

there is a definitely a group of people who prefer MXE to K

I guess there is no way I know 100% for sure what I got was real K, because I don't have lab equipment. I do however use marquis, mecke, mandelin, and simons reagents to test everything I get, and the K tested correctly (I know the kits aren't 100% reliable). Can we get off the topic of if my K is real or not though? Not trying to be an ass, but I lurk forums a lot and I know it is impossible to prove to the reader that I have a reliable source. I've had ketamine from 3 seperate sources, ALL to the same effect. I've also shared my K with friends who are familiar with K, and they got normal effects from it. I'm certain it is REAL ketamine we are speaking of.

 

[Jbudman]

Did I not let you know SWIM isn't allowed?

There's no reason to be hostile because I'm letting you know your reaction to Ketamine sounds nothing like what Ketamine should do. How do you know for a fact it was real K? Everywhere here in America you can buy NBOMe sold as LSD and be guaranteed, even by your daily guy for the past year who invites you over to party and chill even if you aren't buying (as happened to me), it's real LSD.

If you didn't order it yourself, get it out of a vial yourself, or know the person who did any of these things (saw it in person, labeled as K), how you KNOW it was K?

Not trying to be hostile, I apologize. I just kind of had a feeling someone was gonna question my source, and it's impossible for me to prove to you that what I have is real.
I am fully aware of the current situation in america with RCs. I am very lucky to have a semi-local source for real tasteless LSD, and real MDMA that tests clean with a kit, and gives full effects around 100mg. I carry a test kit with me everywhere I go because my city is full of research chemicals. I know dozens of people that can get 25i blotter, or other unknown sketchy tasting "acid", along with methylone, butylone, mephedrone, and whatever else could be sold as "Molly" around here. I only know ONE source to get real MDMA, or real LSD in my state, and that is the same source I got my Ketamine from.

Please forgive me if I am coming off as rude, I just don't feel like i need to prove myself in order to get some advice. If you knew me in person you would understand, I am obsessed with harm reduction, I am 100% aware of how sketchy the drug market is right now (especially with psychedelics) with all the RCs going around, and I am pretty sure I annoy the shit out of my friends and family that I meet at shows by preaching to them about it.

 

[sekio]

Please, people. Let's not nit pick about the authenticity of drugs, just because they produce negative effects doesn't mean it has to be cut.

Ketamine is certainly more incapacitating than MXE. Nausea is definitely a big issue for some people on it, because you lose your inner sense of equilibrium. While the two drugs do share a general dissociative "feeling", they are not 1:1 replacements for each other. MXE is longer lasting, more potent per milligram, much "lighter", less immobilising, and less hallucinogenic. You have some hope of interacting normally on a low-moderate MXE dose. No chance on ketamine.

I think you hit the nail on the head; your body just doesn't like ketamine as much. Aside from the standard nausea cures (a little diphenhydramine/promethazine, ginger, cannabis), avoiding food beforehand, and trying to stay still, there's not much else you can do to combat the nausea.

 

[Toz]

Yea I was also about to guess someone sold you heroin instead of ketamine but then I realized that made no sense either way. I know some people don't like ketamine and get really nauseous from it, I guess you've had bad luck and it's not the drug for you. The diminshing of social anxiety from MXE should be from it's affinity for the serotonin transporter, something that ketamine lacks. It's also what gives the warm and fuzzy feeling of methoxetamine.

 

[sekio]

"Regular" (once weekly) threshold doses of S-ketamine (0.25 mg/kg IV) have been used with some success to treat resistant depression, as well. So maybe it's just the NMDA antagonism at work.

 

[Salute my shorts]

I absolutely love Mxe and Ketamine, they both have certian aspects that are superior over each other but if I had to choose one and I've debated over this long and hard, I'd pick mxe.

The advantages with ketamine is that you're guaranteed to hole every time as long as your doses are high enough for your tolerance, and the hole sets in much quicker but the entire experience is much shorter, which is a negative for me. Though it can be a positive too if you have something to do later in the day where you're not trying to be obviously intoxicated, you can do just one dose and be back to earth and able to walk/talk and not stuttering in 40-50 minutes and go about your day, mxe needs a couple hours for that on high doses.

The advantages with mxe are the hole in general is just more memorable once you reach it, with ketamine once the realm your in starts to dissipate and you find your self back sitting in a chair or lying down you're just kind of like "what the hell was that? I want more, take me back to where ever that was". On mxe although the hole is much harder to obtain, I can only get there about 40-50% of the time regardless of dose, you have to work with it and set and setting be perfect to get there but once you get there to me at least the hole with mxe is just more mindblowing and memorable it just means more to me, and as I said before lasts much longer. While they're both absolutely beautiful once you reach that special place, mxe is less "what the hell was that" and more "Oh my god yes" (sorry I'm not too poetic when it comes to explaining these things, Its hard to put in words)

As for the physical effects The zero gravity part its one of my favorite parts of both experiences but I just like the way mxe makes you float more than the way K makes you float. On K I feel like a paraglider or a falcon soaring over jungle canopies and whatnot and its a pretty straight forward soaring in different directions type feeling, On Mxe I feel as if I'm being sucked up into a zero gravity water slide like the ones at water parks with all the loops and up and downs, like one minute you'll be going slow motion in a U-turn and the all of the sudden get blasted up in the air much faster than you were going, and for me a lot of the time I'm in more of a cosmic lord of the rings type setting where as K Its usually space or nature.

Now Ketamine and Mxe are in my top 5 easily, so with both of them its going to turn into a couple day ordeal once I start. Now the nice thing with K is you can actually get some sleep in there, mxe can keep me up for 3+ days continuously re dosing because it dose have a stimulant side to it especially when you've got a high tolerance and even once I stop I just find it hard to sleep. Now one of the reasons With ketamine its easier to take a break other than the fact its less stimulating is you have to do a lot more, and its much harsher on your nose (I don't use needles) For me after about the 1 to1.2 mark my nose start to clog completely shut and I have to use all my power to keep vacuuming up line and at about the 3 gram or so mark that's it I need to wait a while for it open up again. With mxe its the most comfortable thing I've come across to put up your nose, at least the bright white salt looking kind is. You can go on for days straight without even having to blow your nose and no clogging.

Another thing is mxe is more euphoric in the classic sense, like whenever I do that first line I get those pleasure chills that run down your spine, and that "Oh Yes" feeling and I'm chatty and stuff in the beginning until it really sets in and when I try and talk I sound like jimmy from south park. Another plus on the ketamine side for me is there is no real comedown at all, a little bit of fog after its over but not negative at all, mxe can have a pretty shitty comedown if you've been going to town on it. Also a big thing for me is there are no "K pains" with mxe. K pains are absolutely miserable, I would honestly rather go through opiate withdrawal, at least I know when I'm going to feel better and I can take other drugs to help me get through it or do small amounts to end w/d. There's nothing you can do for your bladder pains other than wait it out or do more K which will just make it worse in the end, though you only experience then when you've been using way too much. The best way I can describe them is When in "The Army of Darkness" Ash has those little miniature versions of him running around and hes trying to kill them so he swallows one and then they start trying to poke their way out from the inside, its just like that and feels like one of those little guys is inside you trying to slice his way out with a dull Knife, they suck.

And finally, Ketamine is better at playing well with others than mxe. Mxe can lend itself to bad times and panic attacks here and there with different substances, don't mix stims with it, it never turns out how you were hoping and can be downright dangerous.

 

[Jbudman]

Thank you so much for all the replies!
I will definitely give higher dose K another try in the future. So far for me, the only negative side effects I have felt from the MXE were sometimes feeling like it was lasting a little too long, and having trouble waking up the next day with less than 10 hours of sleep, I also got some slight paranoia after a day of use, but nothing unmanageable. The only other problem I have run into is the desire to do more/do it again, it is hard for me to stop doing it once I start.
With Ketamine, the negatives for me are by the time I have done enough to get me in a decent headspace, I am nauseous to the point where even turning my eyes will trigger vomiting. With K i have always wanted to try to K-hole, but it just doesn't seem logical to think that if I do more the nausea will somehow disappear. Some people have told me the nausea could be from swallowing the ketamine drip, some people have mentioned that having a full stomach could have something to do with it, and some of the people just tell me "thats how ketamine is".
Hopefully one of these days I'll be able to take ketamine without being too nauseous to enjoy it, if not hopefully MXE makes itself a little more available for me in the future because it has definitely proved itself to be a pretty interesting chemical, something that I've sadly never been able to experience with Ketamine.

Any one else got tips for the nausea?

Thanks so much guys, I appreciate all of the info you have shared :]
Safe travels.

 

[Crashing]

On the dissociative spectrum i'd put MXE a bit closer to DXM than to Ketamine. It's like a bridge between em. Maybe you're getting an isomer of ketamine that isn't that great. There are a few different kinds.

 

[Jbudman]

On the dissociative spectrum i'd put MXE a bit closer to DXM than to Ketamine. It's like a bridge between em. Maybe you're getting an isomer of ketamine that isn't that great. There are a few different kinds.

Ahh, good point on the isomer thing! I remember my friend telling me what kind it was when I got it, but it's been over a year so I don't remember. Thanks for the input!

 

[hypnagogic]

I've only ever gotten nauseous on one batch of ketamine, and that batch had certain characteristics that made me question whether it really was K or an RC analogue. My girlfriend has negative reactions to most batches, however. She doesn't enjoy the headspace it puts her in and vomits at higher doses or any time she holes. For her MXE is everything she wishes K was. All the good with none of the bad.

For me MXE at low doses is better than K at low doses. The euphoria is more noticeable and I like the energy I get from it. At high doses I'd much rather go into an hour long hole than a three hour one with several more hours of coming down.

 

[Solipsis]

It's possible it is an impurity (get K from a completely different source to check - although if you live in an area with very low density population it might be hard finding something outside your normal circle), because most people aren't so extremely sensitive to the side-effects of K without feeling the other effects...

but yes it's possible that you just react very atypically in which case a lot of things we might think probably don't apply to you.

Anyway MXE does feel more manageable and less incapacitating to me, yes. But the tradeoff is that I can't get as good hole effects on it. Both are a result of lack of anaesthesia by comparison.
The mood effects are stronger for me with MXE, but the psychedelic effect is more trippy for me with K - although that could be because I never had MXE before I developed dissociative tolerance.

 

[Elkat13]

First, SWIM isn't allowed here.

Second, it doesn't sound like you had real or pure Ketamine. I've never read reports of non-combatable nausea.

I've heard this quite a few times actually, although it's never happened to me. I find the two very similar. I've never been quite in the K-Hole space with MXE, but it's come really close. I thought I was dead, missed a flight because I thought I was dead. That kind of sucked. Once I took MXE thinking it was a speed pill I made, I was capsuling both for a little while, for easy of use carrying around and to try to deter myself from sticking a needle in my arm with meth. Well it wasn't a speed pill, it was MXE, and BAM! K-hole's (practically). My boyfriend and I noticed that there is a rampant tolerance build up though, he wanted to see if he could break that, he blacked out, screaming for like 45 minutes to an hour. The whole thing was longer. He didn't say he had a bad time though, just kinda lost it. I was never in fear of his life.... just that the neighbors might hear him screaming haha.

It's also an extremely good opiate enhancer, in small doses.