Questions about EGO DEATH

[Jabberwocky]

^Its impermanent too, just like pretty much everything.

I've experienced ego death but still have an ego. The ego death produces lasting effects, but ego comes back, lightened and more transparent, but ego nonetheless. The first time I had one of these experiences the aftereffects ( a feeling of no thoughts and inner radiance) were strong for 4 days after my trip. I sometimes call it ego dying instead of ego death for this reason. Don't expect an ego death to be the end of your journey. Truly eradicating ego or seeing oneself as truly separate from it must be enlightenment.

 

[thelastclubkid]

Nobody can get rid of their ego. The ego is an integral part of the brain and will always function. What is important about ego death is that even though it is a temporary phenomenon it can teach you to override your ego once you are back in the normal world. This is where much of the enlightenment comes from. IMO you really only need to experience ego death once and you are set for life... e.g. your brain really only needs understand how to function this way one time through chemical interdiction and from that point on it can remember this way of thinking even in sobriety.

Personally my belief is that what many people consider to be ego death really is not unless they relate this feeling of enlightenment, loss of fear, and willingness to give in to the unknown.. it is a different state of mind.

 

[Flynnal]

You know, what for it's worth, I am going to see if I can get my hands on say 12 tabs of 100ug LSD.

I want to take two small doses first, say 100ug, and one bigger dose, say 200ug, and then finally a really big dose, say 800ug.

Maybe this will wipe out the trauma of those mutilated screaming infants that is literally driving me to consider suicide. I don't want to die, I just want to stop the pain.

 

[onepumpchump]

^ummm, what?

I really wouldn't recommend taking huge doses of acid to try and forget something traumatic. That is the exact OPPOSITE thing I would do.

Don't forget the most important consideration when taking Psychedelics- Set and Setting

 

[phuckingnutz]

Ah, this old beauty. Already populated by the usual suspects....

It's been a while for me, but I can't resist...
Ego Death is the dissolution of boundaries...you are one with everything. It has little to nothing to do with the Freudian ego.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Maybe this will wipe out the trauma of those mutilated screaming infants that is literally driving me to consider suicide.

It isn't a dose thing so much as it is about being able to navigate it. The higher the dose the harder it can be to navigate, so I'm thinking lower doses are your ticket. The most direct way out of this is to go into this, so I respect your need to explore it. Mutilated infants isn't as crazy as it sounds. It's a common theme in Stanley Grof's work. Sounds like you got some difficult terrain to navigate, but all you gotta do is feel it to heal it. The more hopelessly resigned you are to feeling it, the more that energy loses its hold in your mind.

 

[Ismene]

Only a small percentage are likely to experience something they describe as an "ego-death". Mostly it's people who attribute almost any intense experience on psychedelics to being an "ego-death". I think it's popular in trip reports because people have cottoned onto the fact that if you want your trip report to be noticed and sound exciting you need to mention "dying" somewhere in it - otherwise they think it's boring. After all "dying and coming back" sounds really dramatic whereas "I tripped for a few hours and then stopped tripping" sounds really boring.

I've taken enough LSD, oral DMT and mushrooms in doses high enough to stun a charging silverback gorilla and always known exactly who I was, where I was and that I was tripping on a psychedelic. More than likely you'll be the same.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

I haven't heard of Stanley Grof. Um K, who is this?

 

[thelastclubkid]

It's been a while for me, but I can't resist...
Ego Death is the dissolution of boundaries...you are one with everything. It has little to nothing to do with the Freudian ego.

I experienced this as well...

 

[thelastclubkid]

Only a small percentage are likely to experience something they describe as an "ego-death". Mostly it's people who attribute almost any intense experience on psychedelics to being an "ego-death". I think it's popular in trip reports because people have cottoned onto the fact that if you want your trip report to be noticed and sound exciting you need to mention "dying" somewhere in it - otherwise they think it's boring. After all "dying and coming back" sounds really dramatic whereas "I tripped for a few hours and then stopped tripping" sounds really boring.

I've taken enough LSD, oral DMT and mushrooms in doses high enough to stun a charging silverback gorilla and always known exactly who I was, where I was and that I was tripping on a psychedelic. More than likely you'll be the same.

I would agree with this... At first after this happened I thought that this state could be attained by anyone given enough of a give psychedelic but now the more I have talked about this with others I have seen that there are many people who have taken very large doses of psychedelics and not experienced this. There is obviously more to it.

 

[psood0nym]

Ah, this old beauty. Already populated by the usual suspects....

Your old thread "What is enlightenment?" contains the most satisfying answers to this question I know of on Bluelight.

Read through that thread and watch the linked to neurotheology lecture and you'll have a better idea of what's really being asked here than you likely would skimming dozens of similar threads around the internet.

 

[MedicinalHeroin]

1.) What is ego death?
The "ego" we're talking about here is actually what Freud calls a "super ego" or inner critic. Basically the voice that is judging all incoming stimuli and outgoing actions. In an ego death or ego suppression, this voice in your head is either quieted or silenced completely. This is what often causes people to think they are dying on psychedelics when really its just their sense of an "I" that is dying.

2.) What do you experience in ego death?
You're able to see the world for what it really is. This sounds really mystical but I mean it very literally. When you're free of your ego you stop labeling and categorizing everything you experience (emotions are not as rigid as "sad" or "happy", objects are not defined as a "chair" or "bed" etc). The easiest example of ego loss you can experience is to look in the mirror when you're tripping. A common remark ive seen people make when they do this is "woah, is that what I really look like?" Your own appearance is one of the things you know best, so when you lose that perception its very obvious.

This separation from your own internal categorization is also responsible for the feeling of losing touch with reality. Aside from the fact that you might be visually and auditorily hallucinating, the loss of your ability to recognize and categorize all the stimuli you're experiencing causes some to feel as if they don't know what is "real" or not.

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?
At that dose its likely the user could experience an ego death, but it will more than likely be more "suppressed" than "dead." A 400ug LSD trip or a 5g (heroic) shroom dose, an ego death is almost guaranteed.

 

[beniceman]

1.) What is ego death?
The "ego" we're talking about here is actually what Freud calls a "super ego" or inner critic. Basically the voice that is judging all incoming stimuli and outgoing actions. In an ego death or ego suppression, this voice in your head is either quieted or silenced completely. This is what often causes people to think they are dying on psychedelics when really its just their sense of an "I" that is dying.

2.) What do you experience in ego death?
You're able to see the world for what it really is. This sounds really mystical but I mean it very literally. When you're free of your ego you stop labeling and categorizing everything you experience (emotions are not as rigid as "sad" or "happy", objects are not defined as a "chair" or "bed" etc). The easiest example of ego loss you can experience is to look in the mirror when you're tripping. A common remark ive seen people make when they do this is "woah, is that what I really look like?" Your own appearance is one of the things you know best, so when you lose that perception its very obvious.

This separation from your own internal categorization is also responsible for the feeling of losing touch with reality. Aside from the fact that you might be visually and auditorily hallucinating, the loss of your ability to recognize and categorize all the stimuli you're experiencing causes some to feel as if they don't know what is "real" or not.

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?
At that dose its likely the user could experience an ego death, but it will more than likely be more "suppressed" than "dead." A 400ug LSD trip or a 5g (heroic) shroom dose, an ego death is almost guaranteed.

What he said.

 

[Ismene]

Basically the voice that is judging all incoming stimuli and outgoing actions. In an ego death or ego suppression, this voice in your head is either quieted or silenced completely.

[/COLOR]You're able to see the world for what it really is. This sounds really mystical but I mean it very literally. When you're free of your ego you stop labeling and categorizing everything you experience (emotions are not as rigid as "sad" or "happy", objects are not defined as a "chair" or "bed" etc). The easiest example of ego loss you can experience is to look in the mirror when you're tripping. A common remark ive seen people make when they do this is "woah, is that what I really look like?" Your own appearance is one of the things you know best, so when you lose that perception its very obvious.

This separation from your own internal categorization is also responsible for the feeling of losing touch with reality. Aside from the fact that you might be visually and auditorily hallucinating, the loss of your ability to recognize and categorize all the stimuli you're experiencing causes some to feel as if they don't know what is "real" or not.

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?
At that dose its likely the user could experience an ego death, but it will more than likely be more "suppressed" than "dead." A 400ug LSD trip or a 5g (heroic) shroom dose, an ego death is almost guaranteed.

In what way is this different from "tripping"? When you look in the mirror you appear slightly different because everything appears slightly different when you're tripping - it's nothing to do with anything dying.

I think we're confusing the effects of taking a psychedelic drug with "ego-death".

 

[max_freakout]

When you look in the mirror you appear slightly different because everything appears slightly different when you're tripping -
When you look at your ego from the intense psychedelic perspective it can 'appear' as a dead thing, whereas in the sober state of consciousness, the ego looks like a living thing (ie you feel that you are alive).

This difference in perception/perspective/appearance from the ordinary state to the psychedelic state is what explains the whole 'ego death' phenomenon. Ego death results from perceiving ego from the psychedelic perspective, ie seeing ego from God's point of view, or from the pov of infinite unity/oneness. From this altered state perspective, ego appears differently to the way it appears to sober consciousness.

it's nothing to do with anything dying.

more accurate to say it is to do with ego "appearing to be dead" rather than actually dying. That is why people experiencing ego death might say something like "I think im dead, am i dead?"

I think we're confusing the effects of taking a psychedelic drug with "ego-death".

These ^ are the same thing, ego death is the ultimate, threshold psychedelic trip, the result of ingesting psychedelic drugs

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

Your old thread "What is enlightenment?" contains the most satisfying answers to this question I know of on Bluelight.

Read through that thread and watch the linked to neurotheology lecture and you'll have a better idea of what's really being asked here than you likely would skimming dozens of similar threads around the internet.

This thread and the thread you linked are completely unrelated. willow11 didn't mention ego in the comment you referenced. Ego death and enlightenment are separate concepts. After reading willow11's comment on enlightenment I glean willow11 views sense of self is an integral part of an enlightened awareness. willow11, am I accurate in making this distinction between your ideas and the others?

where the subjective self can objectively witness reality without creating values or distinctions, and (perhaps most importantly) this state is continuous and almost static.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ SteamboatbillJr, Stanislav Grof is one of the founders of LSD psychotherapy. Key figure in transpersonal psychology. These hellish landscapes are key themes in his work. He has many books and you can check out his website here.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

His name is Stanislav. His name isn't Stanley. Stanley isn't his ncikname either. Speaking of him you said:

Mutilated infants isn't as crazy as it sounds. It's a common theme in Stanley Grof's work.

I can't think of what made you say this. Mutilated infants aren't common in his work. I haven't found any reference of him mentioning mutilated infants at all. This disinformation miss-portrays this respected psychotherapist. Furthermore "hellish landscapes" aren't the focus of his work either. His most prominent work focuses on rebirth experiences. Could you provide me evidence supporting your claim his work focuses primarily on "hellish landscapes" involving "mutilated infants"?

His most recent publications portray a much different picture of his work than yours.




Healing Our Deepest Wounds:
The Holotropic Paradigm Shift

Lillibit’s Dream
by Melody Sullivan, illustrated by Stanislav Grof

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

You know, what for it's worth, I am going to see if I can get my hands on say 12 tabs of 100ug LSD.

I want to take two small doses first, say 100ug, and one bigger dose, say 200ug, and then finally a really big dose, say 800ug.

Maybe this will wipe out the trauma of those mutilated screaming infants that is literally driving me to consider suicide. I don't want to die, I just want to stop the pain.

Could you elaborate on your trauma, if you feel comfortable? My initial recommendation is legal pharmaceuticals. Often recurrent thoughts can improve with the inclusion of the guidance of a psychiatrist. If modern pharmaceuticals weren't notably effective I infer professionally guided MDMA therapy is your best option. In some people LSD experiences have a light and shiny afterglow. In others, well, the after glow is more serious.

As a third option you could consider LSD. If I get this with my descriptor words. Treating what ails you with LSD is a gambit. A rebirth experience (also called and ego death experience) has a powerful reorganizing effect on your life. This could benefit you. When people return from the peak of the experience they often remember old forgotten memories. Stanislav Grof suggest memories from as early as child birth. As the participant integrates memories, the various parts of their identity, and environment they could experience a strong perspective shift. You could realize a few hallucinations, negative events, or other challenging experiences are really insignificant in the perspective of your entire existence. You can't alter the past. Though with these realizations perhaps you could realize you are the choices you make if the future.

 

[max_freakout]

Stanislav Grof formulated a major psychological theory about ego death which followed from Otto Rank's (a student of Freud) theory of perinatal experience (= the experience of the unborn baby immediately prior to and during its birth).

According to Grof's theory of 'perinatal matrices', the experience of psychedelic ego death is the mind's way of reliving the unresolved trauma of biological birth. Grof mapped out the various stages of ego death experiencing to the stages of birth as the foetus is ejected from the womb into the world.