Question regarding tea wd, the brain, and Adderall

[Carfentanilfreak]

I just had a few questions about detox, abstinance, and long term effects from my P tea use. I know this is long and im not trying to demonize the product as I unfortunatly love it VERY much. Although I consider myself a drug expert the answers you all could give me would be priclesss to me.

I just got out of a detox in which I spent 8 days withdrawing from tea that i have used for 9 months. (the last time I detoxed myself I only used for a month and a half. In detox I told them that I was addicted to heroin, even though I have never tried the substance bc I knew they would'nt know what it was and didnt want to give it bad publicity. Is that what I should tell them? Anyways the withdrawals were absolutly hellish but not as bad as I though bc they gave me CLonidine and Ativan. Its been 8 days since I drunk the tea and I just feel like I have damage and will never feel the same ever again no matter what inspite of the beleifs PT doesnt cause brain damage. I still feel freezing cold inside, cant sleep without medication, get bad headaches, and worst of all, I feel very depressed most of the time. I did for about 90 days have pods that had to have pods that had a ton of thebaine bc I was throwing up and bad headaches all the time. There is an article of the confession of an ebayer that says that he had been twelve days off the stuff, still feels horrible and knows its only a matter of time until he will get more. I was just wondering for you experience users out there, will this last forever? With my state of mind in early recovery it seems like I would have much rather been addicted to Heroin, than morphine and 50 other possibly toxic substances. NOt only does my depth perception and lucidity of reality seem different but my mental state is just alot different than it used to be in a very bad way. I just wonder also if the Clonidine and Ativan could make a difference in the ability for the brain to fully recover. I know that ther MK-801 binding to NMDA receptors is critical to the tolerance, dependance, and even recovery from opiate. I wonder what effect clonidine or Ativan has on this.

The last time I had comeoff of the tea I had used for 1.5 months, I had done it cold turkey without the help of medications, which was much worse, but felt absolutly normal, could sleep without medications, and actually had no desire or craving to drink the tea within 7 days of at home detox. It was interesting in the past the thing that would cause me to relapse on opiates was simply the fact that I was replacing them with coffree even in rehab but the time I kicked it cold turkey, I didnt drink any coffee, didnt smoke and had no urges to drink the tea. The only think that caused me to relapse the last time was abusing my adderall. This time it is different and I just feel eternally doomed.

My doctor does prescribe me 90 10mg tablets of Adderall which I havent taken and have saved up since I started drinking tea. I was just wondering, would it be ok to start taking the recommended 30mg daily dose off adderall even though i still feel messed up with an imbalance or brain damage. Adderall gives me alot of axiety until my body gets used to it 3 days later. I am wondering or hoping that this either might help me stay away from the tea or help me lose the 50 lbs I put on drinking the tea. After taking Adderall for a few days I used to could sleep on Adderall which I wonder if it would help my sleeplesness situation. Sounds crazy but I just feel doomed yet want to start taking my Adderall.

 

[Jamshyd]

Now say that all in one breath!

I'd honestly love to read that and try to help in any way I can, but I seriously cannot read such a large paragraph. I'm sure many agree. Please use the Enter Key.

 

[specialspack]

Maybe over to OD or the Dark Side? You might get better answers there..

Oh, and really put some paras in. It makes it so hard to read otherwise..

 

[Carfentanilfreak]

Was worried it was kind of long. Just trying to knock out four ducks with the same bullet. Sorry about that. The reason I have my question or questions in the Advanced drug forum is becuase nuerotoxicity isnt necessarily a simple thing especially when you are dealing with a mixuture of alkaloids which are found in plant materials. I guess i just figure there might be people in this particular forum that might actually know more than me and would appreciate their expert advice for my possible doomed life.
Peace.

 

[BilZ0r]

know that ther MK-801 binding to NMDA receptors is critical to the tolerance, dependance, and even recovery from opiate. I wonder what effect clonidine or Ativan has on this.

While there is some evidence out there that NMDA mediate synaptic plasticity plays a role in tolerance/withdrawal clonidine and ativan ease withdrawals through a reduction in both central and peripheral noradrenaline release, as well as a general sedative and euphoriant effect.

When it comes to neurotoxicity, I doubt it, if your dealing with the poppy pods.. I've heard drug users from cannabis to opioids complain that they are terminally mentally retarded after excessive use. But most of them feel pretty much fine after long term abstinance.

 

[stvip]

There is a recent US patent claiming the combination of ibogaine (or 18-MC) with bupropion. Apparently, they antagonize (among other targets) the same nicotinic receptor subtype and are synergistic. So while ibogaine is rather exotic and demanding (and unlike morphine, actually is neurotoxic), getting a perscription for bupropion should be easy. Besides that, it is probably a much better way to alter dopamine levels than amphetamine (which causes a swinging imbalance rather than enhancement of dopamine levels). I have heard many positive anecdotal reports of people aided by bupropion.

 

[Jamshyd]

Thanks for making paragraphs. Sorry if my post made me sound like an asshole...

Although never experienced opium withdrawal, I can imagine that it would be worse than w/d from shorter-acting opiates (please lets not get into a w/d dicksizing tournament now).

As you mentioned, you are aware that you are withdrawing from many substances, most of them with very long half-lives. However, I suppose 8 days should be good enough to get most stuff out of your system. What you are suffering now is probably psychological withdrawal, which IMO can be more torturous than physical w/d. I think most opiate (ex)addicts will tell you that they always feel like something is "wrong" or "missing" after they stip using.

Which leads me to the point of this post. While there are a few studies about NMDA anatagonists and their effects on opioid tolerance and w/d as bilzor mentioned, I will give you first-hand experience.

I am chronically melancholic with suicidal tendencies. A few months ago I went through w/d from a relatively small Heroin/oxycodone habit. Yeah, the physical symptoms were bad, but I know they could be worse. But as you can imagine, with my already horrible psychological state, the psychological w/d was horrific. Enter Ketamine. I have previously used tiny doses of ketamine and it had consistently worked to treat my depression - more so than SSRI's and even MAOI's. During my withdrawal, I used Ketamine and it helped a LOT.

During physical w/d, I used larger doses (but not debilitating large) of Ketamine + benzos. This has two reasons: Lower doses of K tend to raise heart-beat and you don't want that due to the adrenergic effects of physical w/d. The second reason is that Ketamine, to an extent, dulls the pain.

As the physical w/d ended, I used smaller daily doses of K (10-20mg, no more - and I have moderate tolerance) and although it didn't entirely block the cravings, it at least significantly lowered the depression and increased my motivation. For the record, although my tolerance to the recreational doses of Ketamine has gone up over my recreational dose, the low "medicinal" doses do not seem to be affected by this tolerance. The effect is consistent and reliable.

As an aside, Iboga alkaloids have been found to have NMDA antagonist properties, but I have never been to interested in iboga treatment.

This is my experience. I don't know if it woud work for you (and certainly can't guarantee that you have easy access to Ketamine), but Ketamine is my medicine, and I have decided to make it one of my life's goals to understand how ketamine has so miraculously helped with my depression.

Sorry if this sounds like an ad testimonial for Ketamine, lol. I just thought I'd share this with you since you mentioned NMDA antagonism.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Yes definitely, I think Amphetamines are a horrible idea during physical w/d, since much of the w/d symptoms are adrenergic. Though this has been covered before in OD forum.

 

[anhalonium9]

^another convert to the church of ketamine.....

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I have extensive experience with poppy tea addiction, and withdrawal. If you wish, feel free to PM me if you want any advice or have any questions.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Although never experienced opium withdrawal, I can imagine that it would be worse than w/d from shorter-acting opiates (please lets not get into a w/d dicksizing tournament now).

It is. The last time I tried to quit poppy tea, even after a month of no opiate usage, I did not feel right. Coming back from long-term usage of opium is very difficult. Much more so than even heroin. Do some reading at poppies.org as those are the folks who can really help in this department.

 

[serpent]

ketamine really helped when i kicked the habit,although i did also use dihydrocodeine,methadone and valium.whenever i had a craving i would snort some k and soon stop thinking about opiates.