Heroin Question regarding IM heroin

[TwoOnSmack]

Hi all,

I have often heard people say that street-quality heroin shouldn't be injected intramuscularly. I understand this can be very dangerous if you have any insoluble particles in your shot that, once lodged in the muscle-tissue can lead to inflammations, abscesses etc.

However, provided that you use a micron filter and take all the necessary clinical precautions with regards to hygiene, sterility etc. I can't see how IM administration should be a riskier procedure than IV injection. The heroin will be completely dissolved in the aquous phase and any particulate matter larger than 0,2μ will be removed by the micron filter.

I'm really curious about an explanation and all answers are welcome. However, keep them scientifically founded - no junkie myths or unsupported claims please.

peace!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hi all,

I have often heard people say that street-quality heroin shouldn't be injected intramuscularly. I understand this can be very dangerous if you have any insoluble particles in your shot that, once lodged in the muscle-tissue can lead to inflammations, abscesses etc.

However, provided that you use a micron filter and take all the necessary clinical precautions with regards to hygiene, sterility etc. I can't see how IM administration should be a riskier procedure than IV injection. The heroin will be completely dissolved in the aquous phase and any particulate matter larger than 0,2μ will be removed by the micron filter.

I'm really curious about an explanation and all answers are welcome. However, keep them scientifically founded - no junkie myths or unsupported claims please.

peace!

It would be safe IMO. As long as you can account that the inactive ingredients/cut/whatever is in the dope that shouldn't be due to circumstances, is larger than 0.22um.

Here's an issue for instance, micron filters of 0.22um size cannot filter out viruses, and potentially fungi/protists. If your dope was dropped in incredibly filthy water/moldy something, I can't guarantee a micron filter will save your dope.

If you know the cuts they are using, you can figure out if a 0.22um filter will remove it. Even if human hair lands in the dope, it will likely be filtered out (a human hair can fit through a 31G needle tip by the way; I have seen small hairs in powder heroin before, I'm not making this up, sadly.... ).

Corn starch will congeal in water and become large enough to be filtered out with a 0.22um micron filter, even though the smallest corn starch particles may be smaller than 0.22um before congealing in water, as long as you give the corn starch adequate time to congeal in the water (if congeal isn't the right word then someone may correct me) then it will be filtered out.

Some of the cuts in heroin may still get through a 0.22um micron filter; especially if they are active ingredients. Tchort wrote an excellent thread about some cuts that can cause dirty shots; I suspect some of these are very fine particles.

Overall, if you had a reliable powder heroin dealer who can assert what they cut their dope with, and it's generally quality (no moldy/contaminated bags), I would trust it personally (WARNING: this is no guarantee! Things can go wrong, even with micron filters; hitting an artery is still a potential injection complication! When you IM, pull the plunger back, you WANT to see air, so as to make sure you are not in a blood vessel, vein or artery, before SLOWLY plunging, making sure that it isn't going to be super painful, though a light sting/itch, especially with volumes over 0.2 - 0.3 mL, isn't unheard of).

I have IM'd micron filtered buprenorphine (not recommended for aforementioned reasons; IVing is safer if you haven't blown most of your veins!)

As to one of your questions, you say something along the lines of "I don't see why, after micron filtering, an IM shot of powder heroin would be more dangerous than IVing" - I would say generally this is correct. However, when you IM, the solution chills out in your muscle for a minute as is absorbed through the blood vessels in the area, transferred to veins, as opposed to directly injected into the vein.

When you directly inject into the vein, there is no "wait time" for the solution. The wait time, in your muscle, is a potential for something to go wrong (sterile abscess, local histamine reaction albeit you can have one with IV use too, nicking a blood vessel on accident if you're not holding the needle steady, especially if it's a long tip*)




* most people IM with long tips; I only need a 5/16" (short tip) to IM. I don't have much subcutaneous fat, especially in my thighs where I IM when I do this (which is *not* often now a days, I used to IM more when I was using ketamine) and I have fairly muscular thighs, and I work out often. Therefore, short tips are all I need. I have also IM'd with long tips (it's what the exchange gave out, larger gauged ones, and I save my 31's for IV use unless they're all I have); I would only need to stick some of the needle tip in, but the tip would generally slip all the way in as I was plunging, especially if the plunger was stiff. This is a risk; you check to see if you're in a blood vessel; if the needle moves after plunging, you may incidentally (how likely this is? I don't know, but Shambles has accidentally injected into an artery while attempting to IM so I know it happens to at least some people) nick a blood vessel. I think it's safer, to use the shortest needle possible, so you can stick it all in at a 90° angle, so you don't have it potentially entering any farther while you plunge. I also believe the further you go into the muscle, the more likely you are to nick any type of blood vessel.

 

[TwoOnSmack]

Thank you very much Captain! Very cool post.

Your answer reflects many of my own considerations. The contamination risc factors that you mention are indeed valid, although I do believe they only hold true to vira. I do not think you find bacteria, protozoa or fungal spores with a diameter <1μ. (I am not 100% sure though, I will check my books when I come home and report back here tomorrow).
-These risc from biocontaminants also holds true to IV-administration though.

I've never actually considered the "wait-time in the muscle" question, but you are totally right. Although I would consider it rather insignificant, it is absolutely correct to assume that it is at least a hypothetical additional opportunity for something to go wrong. Come to think, It is actually the very same mechanism that makes IM admin. slightly more OD-safe than IV. admin.

Thanks for the reply man, was great!

 

[caseface99]

You could always piggyback micron filters down to .1 as well, surely that would be small enough for anything not caught by .2/.22?

 

[mycotoxin]

The question is: Why would you want to stick it in your muscles when you have perfectly good veins??? People muscle it when they cant find a good vein!!! Like, last resort!!
If you're too frightened to inject it into your veins then I'd advise you smoke it, or if its good quality; sniff it! You will get just as much a buzz from those methods as you will from sticking it in your muscles without the risks associated with IV.
But whatever you do, be safe and gather as much info as you can before you do anything.
Take care. x

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thank you very much Captain! Very cool post.

Your answer reflects many of my own considerations. The contamination risc factors that you mention are indeed valid, although I do believe they only hold true to vira. I do not think you find bacteria, protozoa or fungal spores with a diameter <1μ. (I am not 100% sure though, I will check my books when I come home and report back here tomorrow).
-These risc from biocontaminants also holds true to IV-administration though.

I've never actually considered the "wait-time in the muscle" question, but you are totally right. Although I would consider it rather insignificant, it is absolutely correct to assume that it is at least a hypothetical additional opportunity for something to go wrong. Come to think, It is actually the very same mechanism that makes IM admin. slightly more OD-safe than IV. admin.

Thanks for the reply man, was great!

If that's the case you will be good to go. Some bacteria are < 1 micron, but not < 0.45 um.

You are correct; that is exactly why IMing can reduce the likelihood of an overdose; your body will absorb the drug slightly slower, with a somewhat lower bioavailability.

You can still definitely overdose by IMing but it would be harder than IVing.

The question is: Why would you want to stick it in your muscles when you have perfectly good veins??? People muscle it when they cant find a good vein!!! Like, last resort!!
If you're too frightened to inject it into your veins then I'd advise you smoke it, or if its good quality; sniff it! You will get just as much a buzz from those methods as you will from sticking it in your muscles without the risks associated with IV.
But whatever you do, be safe and gather as much info as you can before you do anything.
Take care. x

Some people don't have veins, either poor luck of the draw genetics-wise, or they have already spent through them after months/years of IV use.

I understand most people would just encourage him to IV it, and this might be generally accepted as safer, but I believe he has his reasons for looking into IM administration.

 

[TwoOnSmack]

I administer my daily gear nasally with the occasional IV shot.

This was more a hypothetical attempt of clarification because I've gotten really annoyed with reading a lot of posts saying not to IM heroin without providing any legitimate reasons not to.

Thanks for all your time and replies guys, peace!

 

[lostreality]

Have you read the thread of "bum shots"? Just another alternative to consider, although I'm confident that an IM shot would be stronger than plugging your heroin. I do find it interesting though that erowid suggest the same dose for plugged and IV'ed heroin.