Question re: Methadone / Buprenorphine

[opiaterock]

Hi,

I don't have a particularly bad H habit at the minute..but I do use around 3 days a week, somewhere between 2-4 days for the last 2 months, with sometimes breaks of 2 weeks or so. Anyway It's just getting me down alot now when I stop using on say a Sunday (or often a Monday these days) - whereas before I would have used maybe on a Friday and Saturday I would be feeling fine and pretty fresh by the Friday now I still dont feel right again on a Friday when I usually go and binge again.... Anyway I'm gonna make an appointment with my doc and see can I get a referral to an opiate specialist or see what my doc recommends. I love gear too much I don't even want to stop but its fuckin my life up at the same time.

I would go on a suboxone maintenance if I can but I'm in two minds because i don't feel like I have a full physical dependency to H (like If i were to stick out this weekend I'm sure I would feel fine this time next week) but I know 100% I will smoke again so I don't know... basically any opinions welcome - is it a good idea to go on a maintenance script when I can go days without gear at the minute?

 

[Doody OD]

You won't get a subs maintenance in Ireland at the moment, AFAIK in Dublin there are less than 20 people on a sub script and they are mostly though not all on a detox of some sort. I know its shite but that is the system at the moment.

If it is fucking up your life to the point you are considering methadone then it is not a topic to take lightly. I will add a bit more tomorrow as I'm off to have a kip now; I just wanted to let you know the story on subs, I'll also send you a pm.

 

[opiaterock]

Yeah someone told me that couldnt get subs in Ireland I thought that was BS tho.,.. I know one guy who is on it though he got it in the North I think. Might have to go to a doctor up there maybe

Cheers man talk later

 

[Tryptamite]

You can get bupe in trinity court in dublin but its harder to get on than methadone, very few people on it and very in convenient as you don't get takeaways and have to dose every day except Sundays, maybe Saturdays I don't know.

I wanted to get on subs and to do so I would have had to go to a private clinic in England. If you want to keep using bupe will completely black the effects of h at doses above 2 mg and you will have to hop between subs and hmeaning you wi ll have to face a considerable amount of sickness for this pleasure.

I got on methadone like you. I had a small habit, the withdrawals would have been bearable but I did not want to stop using h. I was on it for 4 years. WDS were long drawn out miserable affair with prolonged PAWS.

It also drove m y tolerance up to the point where I would have to spend a ridiculous amount to get a nice hit iv even if I skipped my meth that day.

My advice to you:
1. Firstly stop using h so frequently. You are already mildly dependent. You are suffering WDs the days you don't use. Keep your use to one day a fortnight or one ay a week tops. This is the nature of h. She is a femme fatal. You must resist her charm and seduction if you want to engage in carnal delight without falling into her trap. She is a seriously addictive beauty.

2. If youreally want to smoke gear anew times a week/ a few days in a row order some codeine online and maintain on that once or twice a day on the days you don't use h. Failing codeine get some poppy pods and maintain with low doses of pod tea.

3. If the above are unavailable and you get on the only maintainence programme available here keep your phy dose to 20-30mg max and don't take it the days you have h. Try to get with a doctor so you can collect your script in the chemist. It is far more flexible an d dignified. You will have to piss clean more often at the clinic but do this and keep asking bout a doctor as you have work/responsibilities etc.
Methadone is no joke, but if you have a habit you need another opiate to fall back on.

 

[Shambles]

Methadone will ruin your life. Vile stuff. Just don't unless it is absolutely necessary. You are not addicted so maintenance just shouldn't be on the agenda really. If heroin is fukkin up your life then quit taking it. It kinda is that simple really.

You are currently using irregularly so won't know how daily opiates affect you mentally. Daily methadone had me so depressed I was suicidal half the time and just fukkin miserable the rest of the time. Heroin itself isn't half as bad for that kinda stuff (although it's pretty fukkin bad if you use daily). Methadone is by far the worst opi to be addicted to. Imo, ime, ymmv, etc, etc. Truly soul-destroying.

Subbiez I love. As far from methadone as it gets. Perky, upbeat, positive, anti-depressant. Of course you're still addicted to strong opies and you have to come down sooner or later. And the later it is the bigger the crash. You can't stay on maintenance forever (or maybe you can - probably a bit shit though). And you really just don't need to. In the UK you would probably be able to get on a subbiez script in your situation but I would personally advise against it. Or at the very least think very long and very hard about it cos once you are you are a junky for life. At least on paper. It's a label you can never shake off once you have it.

Also bear in mind you're gonna have to take it in front of the chemist and stand there until it's dissolved each day for the first three months (if it's anything like it is here anyway). Which is pretty frikkin degrading in all honesty. Regular piss-tests (and - again - if anything like here they test for all drugs and you get kicked off the programme if they find anything you ain't scripted (actually I think they said they turn a blind eye to cannabis)). Regular appointments for counselling and stuff. You don't just get given a script and sent off to play with it. Certainly not straight off anyway. Although it does vary around the country and I have no idea about Ireland (you did mention NI though which would presumably be similar to over here).

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. But I truly would strongly advise just quitting now whilst you ain't in too deep. It only gets harder I can promise you

 

[pinkpapaver]

yep, try and avoid getting a script. you're just gonna have to find something else to do on those h temptation days. you're not in too deep. don't get any deeper, the years quickly turn into decades and you end up with fuck all to show for anything and you're only interest being wrapped up in a cozy heroin bubble (as pleasant though that is, life goes on for everyone else outside of that bubble)

 

[Doody OD]

Just to add a bit more as I was bollocked last night. With subs my understanding is that only Trinity Court and Castle St[most in castle ST are detoxing slowly on them] in Dublin are the only placed you can be scripted for subs. I don't think more than 20 people are on them currently, and you will face the shite resrictions Tryptamine noted, its shite but that's the way people are doing them. As well try to avoid a clinic they are only taking samples every forthnight now but the way addicts are treated in some clinics is demeaning, a GP in the community would be best. That of course only applies if you decide to go for methadone.


Methadone has its postives and negativities, at times methadone saved my life, especially years ago when I was a lot younger the way I was using was out of control. It means you don't have to engage in criminality or that it can't reduce the amount of criminal acts you may have to carry out. My own work brings me into contact with a lot of the treatment staff here in Dublin and whilst there are some sound people working there, there are also a lot of fools who should not be allowed near a person, they just cause more damage.

Being on a script can control your ability to travel and in some cases work, I have see some lads have to give up work in order to make it to a clinic every day. I have seen lads miss family funerals because the needed to travel and the dr would not give them a take away. In the clinics they are now coming up with these new care plans which I feel will be very intrusive into peoples lives, and will benefit few.

My case is a tad unusual as it was noted in work that I had relapsed and I couldn't hide it [I had to give a sample] and occupational health now will be informed if I give a positive sample, well in theory inanyway. So I wouldn't worry about your employer finding out and with you working and I think your location is quite rural so I would imagine you will get a GP. However, for me this time again I had to say going on methadone was best for me, even taking in the above about work.

However, it is a big decision so don't rush into it. I hope that made some sense.

 

[Bare_head]

shammy did u freally find methadone that bad being addicted too? my dads been on 170mg injectables for 10 years now, he is always knackered, he only really seems perked after his hit and when he smokes weed .. he is constantly fucked but he doesnt ever seem intoxicated from the stuff !!! i mean totally fucked all the time, i wish i could help him get on something that was more stable, i guess methadone is the most stable he will ever get :/ i know he gonna die injecting

and listen to these guys mate, they know what they are talking about, just stop your use, heroin ruined my mum and dads life, dont let it ruin yours. we only get one chance at this life, so make it count and dont go down that dark path . stay strong man

 

[Tryptamite]

Sorry to hear about your dad BH. Could he taper and switch to subs? What age is he? Does he want to give up injecting or give up opiates? Does he still use H on top of his methadone? 170mg is a large dose to be maintained on. How often does he inject, once or twice a day?

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Yeh, as others have said, you have no need of maintenance at the moment 'cos your habit is only very mild - though you won't think it's mild when you stop...

A habit is a habit, they all suck big time, but every one gets a little bit worse and a little bit harder to get off - particularly methadone maintenance.

If I were you, knowing what I know now, I'd stock up on some serotonergic drugs (e.g. MDMA or MXE etc) to help induce a positive frame of mind, and loperamide (imodium or a generic equivalent) to help with the physical symptoms and just tough it out for a week or two (actually, you would be better off from an HR point of view to just quit and suffer mildly for a bit, but I know that's easier said than done).

Honestly, unless you have been using AT LEAST one bag EVERY day for a significant amount of time, chances are your biggest problem is psychological (though that is a bitch in itself). Go down the maintenance route - be it meth or subs - and you're just taking a one way trip to hell...

 

[lurching]

MDMA to induce a positive frame of mind during WD? Shit, I won't even drink a sip of coffee (if I could keep it down), please, no extra CNS stimulation AT ALL for me.

 

[pinkpapaver]

I really think poppy tea is the biz. maybe it's psychological but I prefer it to methadone. it seems quite long acting too. but the way the gear talks to you is terrible.

 

[Bare_head]

Sorry to hear about your dad BH. Could he taper and switch to subs? What age is he? Does he want to give up injecting or give up opiates? Does he still use H on top of his methadone? 170mg is a large dose to be maintained on. How often does he inject, once or twice a day?

Yeh he only takes methadone and smokes caanbis for his pain relief from his eye removal , he doesnt use any h, mum got off it 15 years ago now god bless her, he will die taking methadone i know it he is nearing 60 , henwouldnt pass diacitylmorphine pure down and would rather be on that , they tried fentanyl patches which he hated ! Does anyone know how to gst the drug out of these babies btw? Got a few here

 

[Tryptamite]

Yes it's possible. Maybe not possible without some serious chems and skills depending on the brand. But definately smokeable/IVable. You don't have a habit/tolerance? Because playing with fent even with a tolerance is dangerous business.

We don't need to lose another member to overdose.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

MDMA to induce a positive frame of mind during WD? Shit, I won't even drink a sip of coffee (if I could keep it down), please, no extra CNS stimulation AT ALL for me.

Yeh, that's what I thought originally, but it does actually work (for me anyway), as long as you're not going through a full blown rattle, which I don't believe the OP will be from what he said about his usage pattern..

 

[lurching]

I get fairly hefty comedowns after MDMA these days. Can't imagine what soul-crushing bleakness the comedown must be during opiate WD.

 

[opiaterock]

You can get bupe in trinity court in dublin but its harder to get on than methadone, very few people on it and very in convenient as you don't get takeaways and have to dose every day except Sundays, maybe Saturdays I don't know.

I wanted to get on subs and to do so I would have had to go to a private clinic in England. If you want to keep using bupe will completely black the effects of h at doses above 2 mg and you will have to hop between subs and hmeaning you wi ll have to face a considerable amount of sickness for this pleasure.

I got on methadone like you. I had a small habit, the withdrawals would have been bearable but I did not want to stop using h. I was on it for 4 years. WDS were long drawn out miserable affair with prolonged PAWS.

It also drove m y tolerance up to the point where I would have to spend a ridiculous amount to get a nice hit iv even if I skipped my meth that day.

My advice to you:
1. Firstly stop using h so frequently. You are already mildly dependent. You are suffering WDs the days you don't use. Keep your use to one day a fortnight or one ay a week tops. This is the nature of h. She is a femme fatal. You must resist her charm and seduction if you want to engage in carnal delight without falling into her trap. She is a seriously addictive beauty.

Thanks man this is the best option for me...

I don't know how to fucking multi quote ARGHHHHH!!!.... So TO all of you who took the time to reply - Tryp, Doody, Shambles, FUBAR- THANKS SO MUCH for taking the time out of your day to write back to me./.... I was just really really fuckin craving gear the other nite when I wrote this thread I thought maintenance would be a good idea, but it's not at all in my situation... I feel 100% today and I was stoned last on Sunday thats not even 4 full days, it's always been around 4 days for me and never the full blown withdrawals like some people describe, usually just feel really unbelievably fucking tired and have muscle and back aches all day... anyway now it's just psychological from today

Thanks again everyone

p.s. FUBAR - that MDMA idea is madness, I burned my brain out years ago with ecstasy all weekend every weekend (early 2000s)...can't take it at all anymore, but maybe it will work for some people

 

[Pagey]

Haven't read the rest of the thread so apologies if this has already been said, but I definitely don't think you should get on maintenance with only a mild habit - all it's going to do is make you 100% dependant if you aren't already. The habit you have proves you still have some kind of control over heroin - no reason to believe you can't get more. Getting on maintenance is just going to drag everything out and make it a billion times harder when the time to quit does come.
If you do decide to go down that road though, definitely go for bupe. I've never been on proper maintenance but I have used bupe a lot for times when I couldn't get H and it really is pretty helpful (I'm speaking as a replacement, mind), unlike what I've heard from methadone, ie. that it's a soul-destroyer and that the WDs are just beyond unbearable. I doubt you'd be given methadone for that habit anyway but worth keeping in mind.
Good luck

 

[opiaterock]

Thanks Pagey, your right I think maintenance ain;t necessary for me at all... I just got a bit scared the other nite, now I feel like I got control again ... might get a bag and start it all again lol

 

[opiaterock]

and 4 years i've been smoking this shit I think it's pretty good to only have the habit I have at the minute...